Shiningbrow

You've clearly not met the Eurmali equation...

Yes, but I disagree.

Nice! I like the Duck!!

I'm mostly agreeing... Except when you lose the shield, your sword parry isn't crap, because even w/o the shield you're still using the sword to parry regularly... (as well as the occasional shield bash).

I can't answer that, any more than I can answer why only a couple of cults get gifts and geasa anyway... Maybe those gods are more egocentric 😛

Because unless the rules are written right, it means you wouldn't get the same benefits from the shield if you have to use a different weapon, e.g. Mace or axe. Hence the LH shield RH sword as separate skills mostly works. (Mostly, because in training with shield, you rely on it to parry - not the sword parry. And, shield attack... Not a common and effective skill most of the time (especially with spear)).

Experience??? With a herring?????

DI for skill increases? Maybe, but that's usually a HQ thing... Secondly, the purpose of a gift and He's a, IMO, isn't to benefit the player, it's to show devotion to the deity. Therefore, said geasa (and the gift) is extremely relevant throughout their entire career. Re: 1-6.. 1) I think accidental geas breakages are legit - but do agree the GM should warn/advise if some action is heading that way (if it's player choice). Not checking what food you've just been offered, for example (laws of hospitality and all). 2) involuntary breaks of a head may be legit. So, too, is the penance. (Ie, both are in play). You still lose the gift, but getting it back is relatively easy. 3) re: relative benefit... As per my comment above, this is a little irrelevant, as it's the sign of devotion, not the benefit that matters. Also, "testing" is a GM thing, not a PC thing. 4) fair! Could be - Passion rolls. Diet restrictions vs hospitality rules. Celibacy geas v falling head over heels in love (or dryad magic, etc). 5) really don't think it should be 100% suicidal... Perhaps just 80%, with 99% losing something deeply meaningful. 6) if geasa are related to devotion, not benefit - nope, no removals! Should be irrelevant!

Since we've gotten to this point, I can legitimately ask - what should be the % chance of cutting down a tree with a herring? (NB - it's on topic and sort of relevant. Hence, it's not a red herring)

My intention for my hypothetical was for a child that can't even pick up the sword (or barely be able to manage it). Would you still give them that skill?

The kid with sword thing was just the first example that popped into my head.... I'd think juggling is worth 5%... Martial Arts isn't considered physical but knowledge. (which, brings us back full circle! Perhaps it was a RoundHouse!)

Not at the same time. It's explicitly forbidden. You can *either* bind a spirit in it,, *or* store MPs. (I hope I'm reading your post correctly. Apologies if you already realised this). I've always presumed that a control spell could force the spirit into the crystal, and from that point it's effectively "bound", and you can then use its MPs. And, with another control spell, order it outside and so stuff (until the spell duration ends). No extra spells, bindings, POW loss required...

So, a 20' tall giant with 40 POW and 12 DEX still has a 5% chance to effectively hide behind the shrubbery?

True, but I was hoping to go to the point that the stats would bring about sufficient negative to hit 00 in my example. However... If someone can't swim (00), and a spell of "Swim like a fish" is cast on them, can they now swim like the proverbial? As per the above discussion on knowledge skills?

The "truth" I was (in my head - explicitly) referring to was a) it IS a game, and not real life, and b) what a character might do in character is not what a player (person) would do in RL. I thought the last line of both my posts had made that fairly clear...no?

Neither suggests that magic can't (over-)compensate for that... If a character (e.g., young child) picked up a sword for the first time, and somebody cast Bladesharp, what would their skill be like?

But... metal comes from the Earth... And especially in Glorantha, with Copper being the Rune Metal for Earth cults, it would make sense that (if your hypothesis is correct) copper weapons work effectively at dropping vampires in the same way that stakes do. (yes, I know it's heading off topic a little...)

My obvious question is - where does your understanding come from? There's nothing written in the RQG about it... Has there been a "Rune Fix" for this? Or some other official statement on the subject? I brought the Logician topic up in the Munchkinnery thread, and it wasn't mentioned there...

Yay for technology!!! PDF or Excel or whatever

Yes, Bill, you are correct. But let's not have emotion get in the way of truth. I believe it is an "academic debate", and am seeing the issue from that perspective. Remember when it was suggested that playing D&D would lead people to devil worship? Or computer games would increase the chance of becoming violent and murdering people? I don't see anyone suggesting it's "fine" to further victimise a rape victim. Nor have I seen anyone here propose having a character raped (whether for the breakage of a geas or not... although, I have seen mention of broos, which is a standard creature in RQ, and has been for decades. I presume you remove all broos from your games - yes?) If I"m wrong - please quote! NO, not "it can be interpreted in such and such a way", but actual specific and direct quotes. I don't really want to speak for @Jeorg, as I"m quite sure he's capable of doing so himself - but... I agree with what he said (which, by the way, does not include the phrase "destroy your character" - those are your words! I agree with him... geasa are tests of faith. They can be broken in many ways (which, FTR, does not require that the celibacy geas can only be broken via rape - especially since the statistical majority of initiates into either Humakt or Yelmalio are male (not that males can't be raped, obviously)). I think he's saying - your geas is going to be tested, and quite possibly put into situations in which the geas is likely to be broken (somehow). And, as I said, I agree with him! The fact that you don't read the... and the .. I wrote that preceded that says a lot... This is (was) an academic discussion on the nature of geasa in the world of Glorantha, and how the gods that impose such things operate. They're not particularly kind and compassionate (Humakt being the god of death and all...). We can have this discussion about a fictional world and a fictional situation, and a fictional consequence by a fictional god. Being a gamer, and a philosopher, and an academic (and, apparently, on the autism spectrum), my mind is capable of going many places. It needs to to be able to enjoy the fundamental concept of RPGs. In the RPGs I (and most others) play, "people" (PCs and lots and lots and lots of NPCs) die. Sometimes horribly. It can be presumed that tens of millions of people died during the invasion of Chaos in the Glorantha history...I also play Werewolf - PCs regularly kill other people. Some characters do so for sport. It's part of the "role play". Many who play D&D like to play evil characters, so they can do horrendous stuff. It, again, is part of the "role play". There are very few RPGs (PnP or video) that don't have killing as a motif. (surely that should be something to be appalled about!) And, we are quite capable of distinguishing the fantasy of RPGs and the reality of life. Suggesting that people who play such games with such motifs in them, and are able to discuss them (in public or otherwise) is in any way suggestive of their personality, character, etc is ludicrous (and probably very insulting!) If you intend to reply to this post, please start by quoting this (which I wrote above) -

Why "stallion"? That's a disgusting horsey Yelmic thing!!! Shouldn't it be the name for a male beetle ? (And I'm sure on this forum there's at least one person who will know 😛 )

So, what about a stake that hasn't been used? Or only once for a camping trip last summer? And if it's because of the Earth infusion, then metal stakes should also work... (and, if we crossed worlds, plastic).

I think that's somewhat unfair. Sure, geasa are there as GM plot points - as should be any cult stipulations (just the fact you join a cult means you've agreed to certain limitations, which makes for more dramatic role-playing if used appropriately). As @Joerg was saying, gifts aren't meant to be "free", and not bringing the geas into it in some meaningful way would be making it free... (and boring). (*NOT* equating the two ) would you be as argumentative about a dietary requirement which you found unappealing? I notice that the above example of being kidnapped (and tied to the horse) didn't raise an issue.

No, I'm interpreting "celibacy" as not having sex (the GM and players need to agree whether that means only penetrative, or anything). Sex is not always pleasurable, even if consensual, and so the geas is about the basic act - not the enjoyment (or lack thereof). You're obviously not happy with the restrictions (possibly) placed upon your characters from Humakt, Yelmalio, et al... Have you considered joining Babeester Gor? (There is not an argument here that will be condoning rape or sexual assault in any way, shape or form. This is not the forum, nor the people, who would even consider such an idea. Anything suggested to the contrary will not be accepted, and would only come from a Red Herring type logical fallacy...)

I love the above 3 responses... A yes, a no, and a maybe 😛 As for the language issue - it's a bit of a non-issue with Logician, as Read/Write is a Knowledge skill that can be enhanced by it.