Ladygolem

I'd wager every oasis has at least some kind of locally powerful water spirit to keep it going, sustained by a small but very dedicated local cult.

Why not just go with an Odayla initiate? Same cool bear-shifting powers (which I assume is the point), no headaches trying to figure out how to fit them into the setting.

Divine Intervention is supposed to be a big deal for anyone, not just Humakt cultists. I'd expect no less from eg. an Orlanthi ("Grant me but one more breath to scatter the hated foe!"). You're sacrificing a hefty chunk of permanent POW and have a good chance of dying right then and there - that seems like a reasonable price to steal the spotlight for a scene. What's more memorable - the hero overcoming their foe in one last grand burst of power with their dying breath, saving the village... or "The trollkin brains you with a well aimed pebble. You're dead. Start rolling up a new character sheet"

1 minute ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Surviving til the end, yeah. Superpowers til the end?

Who said anything about superpowers?

55 minutes ago, Dragon said:

Hence, I am of the opinion that it is a decent power, but I would recommend those 3 or 4 Ability points go into something that makes the shaman more useful in dealing with the spirits first. At least for player shamans.

Sure, that's a fair assessment. Player shamans aren't gonna have decades of in-game time to hone their abilities, but it's the long term where self-resurrection really shines. It makes sure you have plenty of time to build up your power base (though the centuries-long lifespans the greatest shamans seem to have must come from somewhere else, possibly a different more advanced shamanic ability or powerful spirit pact)

That tracks with how there's a copious handful of super-powerful shamans out there. Blueface in Balazar, Lajla Vanemuine in Fronela, Always Awake Twice in Pent all have some seriously crazy magic going on and are probably super old. Being able to self-resurrect for centuries lets you accumulate a shit ton of POW and bind a veritable army of spirits at your command.

Runequest: Roleplaying in Glorantha page 272:

Quote

Calling for divine intervention takes no time, and
occurs simultaneously, in the time between a blow striking
and the adventurer’s death, for example.

To me this implies that in actual play terms, you can call for divine intervention after damage is dealt. "That's 26 damage to the head, you're dead. Do you want to try to D. I. before that happens?"

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/timeline-dragonpass/

Doesn't go quite as far as you'd like but here's your best bet, probably

3 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

there's nothing un-urbane about shamanic practices per se.

Agreed. There seems to be a circular logic in this thread: shamans are "uncivilised" because only the "uncivilised" are shamans, therefore shamans must be "uncivilised" etc. Once we let go of that presupposition, there's nothing really barring shamans from cities other than the mental image of a shaman as a raggedy old man wearing a deer skull etc. which isn't inherent to the occupation.

I don't see 'race' really existing in Glorantha, at least not in the way it does in our world. Clan, tribe and cult matter way more than arbitrarily significant variations in skin pigmentation.

The Lunar Empire doesn't care what you look like as long as you acknowledge the Red Emperor's rule. Sartarite clans are more concerned with clan allegiance; blood descent from individual heroes or royalty matters for chiefs and princes but irrelevant for the average cottar.

In the RQ:G character creation rules, it's noted that the homeland of your parents or grandparents doesn't have to match yours. The grandchild of a Praxian who settles in Boldhome and adopts Sartarite ways is a Sartarite, no caveats. There's a reason the language used is "Homeland", not "Ethnicity" or "Race".

In addition, in the adventure materials published so far we see a variety of complexions etc. among the various NPCs, without any particular remark or narrative significance.

In short: people of all appearances live in Glorantha and it doesn't really matter to anyone (outside of Fonrit, but that's a whole other thing) (and Teleos but that's basically a joke)

Tuataras are obviously strong in the Moon rune, what with the "third eye" and all that. Moon + Earth = Hon-eel, perhaps? Deezola? Either could claim them as holy. Maybe all tuataras are Illuminated - though being but lowly little creatures they don't do as much with this as one might imagine.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

my personal interpretation of this was basically that the entanglement of the failed Dragonewts WAS becoming the children of Maran Gor.

Same difference, tbh, no point in chicken (or dinosaur) before the egg semantics, I think we're broadly in agreement here 🙂

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

Hmm. Giants seem to have some connection to the earth, and there was allegedly some sort of war between dragons and giants in the distant pre-mythic godtime. I wonder if that's related somehow.

Perhaps a deeply heretical explanation for the Ernaldan Earth model prevailing over the Genertian?

(and yes I know they're different types of giants, I know. but what if they weren't?)

13 minutes ago, JRE said:

I would say that it is interesting that both the largest concentration of Dragonewts and the most famous Maran Gor temple are so close, so there may well have been a strong Godtime connection. What if the Dragons started educating Maran children, and some became Dragonewts? Something like the EWF but with dinosaurs rather than humans.

The non-draconic dinosaurs died out in the God's war, and torn by the betrayal of her children, she took death rather than life as her power. Now she takes back all those dragonewts that slide back into emotion, and she herself becomes an embodyment of strong emotion (Anger, Pride, Lust, but also Love, Mercy and Generosity...) in opposition to the draconic Right way. 

Dragons having the infinity rune and being outside Time makes the dragon children theory suspect. And if you are a skeptic, it might put the dragonewts destroying the EWF on a different light, as not wanting to share their position with the Dragons with those upstart humans...

Oh hell yes, I'm definitely using this in my game, somehow! Thanks!

There are two seemingly irreconcilable origin stories for dinosaurs.

One says that they are the children of Maran Gor, most of whom were wiped out by various foes in the Green Age turning her into the vengeful barren goddess she is today.

The other claims dinosaurs are dragonewts (or their descendants) who have failed in their quest for Rightness by becoming overly emotional and entangled in the material world, thus devolving into beasthood.

Are these stories compatible? Yes, I say, both can be true!

The dinosaurs we see today may not be the same as the quakebeasts of the Maran story. Those indeed were driven to extinction long ago. Maran Gor, in her role as "infertile mother", adopts those "failed" dragonewts into her family (for they remind her of her children, gone so long ago) and offers an alternate perspective - instead of failing to follow Draconic Law , they've transcended the need for it by embracing Disorder!

Now what dragonewt do we know who "glories in their rebellion" and lives quite nearby a region famed for its high dinosaur population (Trachodon Marsh)? New Wyrmish! While I doubt it's an initiate to Maran I do think there's some kind of connection here, and that dinosaurdom (dinohood?) may not be seen as undesirable to it and its' followers...

In conclusion:

41 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

chickens are dinosaurs, but yes

Who knows if that's accurate in Glorantha, though? If horses are birds, then all bets are off when it comes to taxonomy.

My interpretation is that she's specifically the mother of quakebeasts, that is, beasts heavy enough to shake the ground when they tread. So a brontosaur counts, but something like Compsognathus might not. This also opens up the possibility of other ponderous beasts like bison, rhino, giant boars to claim some lesser degree of kinship as well. That's very much My Glorantha Varying, however (as is my crackpot theory reconciling the Maran Gor dinosaur origin story and the fallen dragonewt dinosaur origin story, but that belongs in the Your Dumbest Theory thread, not here...)

30 minutes ago, Storm Khan said:

Super thread. Btw, who/what are the 47 Cannibal Virgins? They are mentioned in the backgrounds. Perhaps, I just need to extrapolate from the thoughts here, and keep it scary. 

Personal acolytes of the Shaker Priestess, who gather tribute and sacrifices (offered willingly or otherwise) for their mistress whenever she departs the confines of the Temple.

My guess is that spending some time as a Cannibal Virgin is a requirement for promotion to Rune level. They're taught the deepest cult secrets, trained in the relevant skills and undertake rigourous physical training to attain the powerful physique befitting a representative of Maran in the Middle World, in return for waiting hand and foot on their semi-divine mistress.

If you want to give them a more active role, you could expand their tribute-gathering role to that of a sort of bandit/kidnapper/assassin, sent out on missions from the temple to retrieve particular chosen sacrifices to the altar by any means necessary - many a man, having made an enemy of the Dark Earth, has been cudgeled on the back of the head while travelling alone in the woods or staggering home deep in his cups, only to awaken bound and gagged in the back of an ox-drawn cart bound for the foot of Kero Fin...

In lieu of any official information, I'd suggest Prax hounds to be similar to the Saluki. They were used for hunting by nomadic people in the Middle East and North Africa for a very long time, due to their speed and stamina. Apparently a tactic was to throw the dog from camelback directly at the prey, to give the dog a running start!

I think this already exists, it's called White Bear and Red Moon and Nomad Gods...

At the very least that's where I would start. I've also seen adaptations of Hordes of the Things for Glorantha - super old school, but thematically versatile! I think there's also a skirmish game set in Glorantha coming out at some point but I know nothing about it.

That said, there's design space here, and it's definitely a topic I'd thought about before. Especially if you decide to use RQ:G as a mechanical base. d100 roll-unders using a form of the Attack/Parry table could be central here, with a simplified character sheet for each unit as opposed to each individual (with many units being controlled at once, you don't want to keep track of a lot for each one!). The setting's emphasis on Heroes would require support for single-person units with perhaps more detailed stats as well.
 

15 hours ago, JRE said:

Among traditional Orlanthi, I would assume male Ernaldan initiates are really Barntar's. You need to be female to go deeper. I do not see Barntar as a Vinga equivalent, an entry point for reverse gender cultists, so that would mean there is a missing link, or that they are very rare, as Vinga probably is among peaceful Orlanthi, if they exist somewhere in Glorantha...

There's Nandan who's the Vinga-equivalent, at least supposedly. Haven't seen him get much mention anywhere outside the "gender and sexuality" topic in the core rulebook (which is a shame, honestly... I suppose Vinga is much more exciting from an "adventurer's" POV, but that's a topic for another time)

On 1/29/2022 at 9:20 AM, Jose said:

Because she said that he hears whispers in the wind sometimes, he whispers poems to the breeze or play his flute to it. As I said she wants him a little freak. 

Sounds like a Kolating shaman to me.

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

Again this is a problem with looking at Dragon Pass from sources that largely predate the Feathered Horse Queen or Sartar.

Like the RuneQuest:Glorantha core rulebook?

Quote

The Pure Horse People claim dominion over the local
farmers, who they call vendref. Vendref are of Orlanthi origin,
descendants of settlers from Esrolia and Saird enslaved by
the Pure Horse People during the resettling of Dragon Pass.
They are tied to the land, and work as bonded agriculturalists,
artisans, merchants, tradesmen, and scribes. The vendref
are not always complacent serfs, and sometimes serve their
overlords as warriors or join invading armies, and have even
moved en masse to a new location. Many among the vendref
are adroit at getting and using wealth, a skill considered to
be beneath the attention of the Pure Horse People. The Pure
Horse People must be careful how they treat the vendref, and
their rule is far lighter than that of a slave and its owner.
Vendref cannot be bought or sold, they live in their customary
villages or towns, retain half the fruits of their labor, and can
and do buy their freedom.

While not outright brutal slavery, what's written here describes a relationship about as mutually beneficial as a mafia protection racket.

I'm all for making Grazelander society a little less oppressive, but it's confusing to newer players (like myself) to come on these forums and read that apparently, the most recent materials available to purchase are completely obsolete, somehow. Will future printings of the rulebook be updated to match this new information?

25 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

As a related question, I’m curious, are there taboos around fraternization between Pure Horse People and Vendref, and if those taboos exist, how strict are they?

My guess: formally taboo and highly forbidden, in practice much more common than either side lets on and swept under the rug. The more rigid the rules of a society, the more common it is for people will break those rules...

49 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Murharzarm had gazzam (earth shakers) as domestic beasts and supposedly as beasts of burden. Possibly as draft beasts for river transport.

No reason they couldn't hitch wagons to dinosaurs, however...

On 1/4/2022 at 6:20 AM, David Scott said:

Based on Cults of Terror, with a few added RQG mechanics for spells, passions, and runes.

Two of the Illumination abilities in Cult Compendium (I assume the same is true in the original Cults of Terror ) are "Immunity to Detect Chaos/Law skills" and "immunity to Detect Chaos/Law spells". I assume Detect Chaos (skill) is now Sense Chaos, but I haven't seen any mention of a Detect or Sense Law in any RQ:G product. What's the current equivalent of these? Detect Honor? That doesn't quite seem right.

On 1/4/2022 at 6:20 AM, David Scott said:

You could easily use the CoT rules for RQG, everyone has the secret (number 1) and a la carte the rest.

Number 1 listed is "Sense Illumination in others." The reference to secret makes me think this refers to "Secret knowledge". I'm assuming the latter, is this correct?