CharloixBrooKiller

This was an amazing thread. I took the time to go through every one. I'd say at some point in the early/mid 80's I owed a copy of every chaosium product. Had all the original stuff (man, felt like some of it was run on a mimograph machine! lol). Sold or gave away most of the stuff in the 80s or 90s as I moved out of gaming. I do still retain an AH Dragon Pass (I have played the game about once every two years over all this time). For a player, the AH copy was the best. I did keep the Nomad Gods original rulebook and my physical copies of Worms Footnotes. Those two are probably the two 'coolest' products just to handle. Read them countless times. I was never one to 'sweat' over the value of stuff a collectables. I think to have it, enjoy it, and then pass it on is much better. I sold my original 3 book D&D (autographed!) and Dungeon Magazine #1 in the late 90s. FWIIW, I really struggle with Glorantha. Have loved it for years, haven't played RQ in over 25. I wish I could 'go back' and play again but that's life. I envy those that can still play RQ but somehow it just doesn't work for me. I think playing in the time we were still constantly 'discovering' new stuff about Glorantha created a unique time and place. Thanks for all the pictures of the 'good old stuff'. Really felt good to see it.

My god...Apple Lane. I think I first played Apple Lane in either '77 or '78. RQ still had defense back then! LOL

Rick, hope you see this. Was not sure how to respond to you directly. I was able to catch up with the mighty Tada! Found him through facebook and caught up a bit. Glad to see he's doing well.

FWIIW, I enjoyed reading this thread. Have not played RQ in generations but decided to 'check in' on how it's going. I had the distinction of being the character Daine from the original Borderlands pack. And the pleasure of sitting around the author's kitchen table naming newtlings on night. Nice to see folks building on the campaign.

wow...say good bye to Dragon Pass? lol for us true old timers that's absolutely anathema. But I confess, I've enjoyed re-reading about RQ and GLorantha, and seeing the varoius newer versions. I get it...nothing gets frozen in time. I suspect the 70s and early 80s were just a special time for us who 'were there'. A lot of Glorantha was still being figured out, and for those of us with some 'in sight' into what was developing was just the right time and right place. I will state, I moved away from RPG playing for a lot of reasons. But a big one was the endless quest for 'improving" your character versus each adventure. I think Call of Clthulu ( sp?) addressed that by being (at least for our groups) being more episodic oriented than 'campaign' oriented. Everyone is entitled to their own tastes. Not demeaning anyone else's. I'm sure not everyone enjoys remember migrating their D&D characters from 6 sided dice HPs to the varity pack of dice when AD&D came out. LOL game on games.

FWIIW, I think my point about GMs playing the game they would like was miinterpreted and probably mis-spoken a bit by me. I meant that, as many stated, the GM needs to focus on his players and what they are looking for. Obviously no one runs a game they don't enjoy running (for long), but nor will he have players if they don't enjoy it. I was really reflecting on this because as an RQ 'ancient', then away for a long time, and reading up on some of what's been published/done in my absence, I struggle between my love for Glorantha & RQ, and the "seeming" (an important word there) inconsistencies that SOMETIMES interfere with RPG play. The bigger the world (Glorantha, Tekeumel, etc.) the harder it is to 'hold it' together from a 'does the world really work' point of view. All RPGs have this tension between advancement makes you better, etc. ...why are the NPCs where they are, and does the world work. The old RQ1 and RQ2 rules on training, etc. mean if a party gets oodles of money they can buy and learn all sorts of stuff. But, looking at the economy of the ancient world WHY is there ever 2000L in a bag somewhere? The Chaos creatures are particularly strong, and things like Mallia spread SO much easier than they are stopped. Why are there ANY Chalana Arroy priests/lords? Their inability to fight means unless protected constantly they die off. Our players loved RQ because in the day we did a lot of Markland and SCA. RQ's fighting aligns with our experiences that numbers count, and luck matters. But if luck matters it is really only a matter of time until your character gets their head cut off. So, finding that blend on 'reality' of the campaign, yet obviously we play to be 'heroes' and not accountants. Apple Lane is a LOT of fun early in a campaign. But I've known some parties that could kill everyone in town including Gringle. How does Apple Lane survive? I don't propose answers..just meandering thoughts.

As someone that goes way back with both D&D and RQ, as well as participating in Markland and SCA in the day (okay, the day was the late 70's early 80s) I agree that RQ combat is not about "more realistic" from a granular sense. I would however say that RQ combat in relation to D&D is more realistic in that 1) numbers matter, 2) ANYONE can get themselves hurt or killed, 3)keep doing it and you'll get it trouble sooner or later, 4) mismatches are not fixed just by your 'skill'. I mean when a Great Troll hits with his club, does it matter if you got your shield up? What RQ combat does is change the RPG game from massive 'dungeon crawls' to a more detailed, granular experience in which a few fights cap the scenario or action. It is not THE only ac tion.

so, let me stir the pot. As a VERY long time RPGer (i've gamed with Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, as well as Chaosium guys), there is sort of one fatal flaw in all RPG. The GM has got to calibrate the game, somehow, to the level of the players. And the real flaw with RPG is that advancement is such a key part of the game. Its no fun for a party of new Runequest characters to try to establish the Temple of the Wooden Sword in the middle of Dagori Inkarth. They just become troll food. And sending your party of RuneLords and RunePriests to hunt down Whitey isn't much fun either. But I know that DMs figure out how to balance. Pursuit of advancing so dominates play that it sort of detracts, and creates some levels of NOT realism that have always bothered me. Lately, we've been playing a lot of Chtulhu. We find there doesn't need to me wide variance in skills due to advancement. Set up the characters, play the scenario. By making the main advancement "knowledge' and just "experience" of dealing with this weird stuff, you can develop characters in a nice RPG way without constantly re-leveling the opposition for the players. IN the end, it seems many GMs run the type of campaign THEY would want to play in. You hope that's what your players want too!

Ok, sorry, but just thought of this since we're running down memory lane. Rick..DO copies of STOMP exist? is it still out there in a Chaosium closet? It was a fun little, non dice, game that Tad did where one side was just 'giant feet' (ok, no quotes, liberally the feet) and your elves were trying to run around doing something I can't remember. Anyone remember this fun little game?

It's a neat concept. Many of the 'named leaders' in ASL are from AH folks, regular playtesters, etc. I know that Harry from Australian Design Group was doing something with the newest printing of World in Flames where you could pay to get customized counters that referenced deceased folks or something along those lines. We don't game but I'm in touch with some of my RQ friends from the 70s/early 80s and none of us have heard from the guy that was Tarnak in 40 years...but anytime we look at Borderlands we stop and think "wonder how Ed's doing?" It's a nice touch. If I recall, WIlliam Church, who did a lot of the art, was actually a carpenter or builder or something full time. I seem to recall it always being tough for him to squeeze in time. Any idea Rick how he's doing. He's gotta be in his 70s I'd think. I'm just about at 60 and I swear everyone was 10 years older than I.

One story still makes me laugh out loud when I tell it. A regular wargamer comes into the story one friday night and says "what's new?" Before I open my mouth, he interrupts and says...... "When I say 'What's new?' I don't mean anything where I have to dress up and pretend to be a prancing elf and dance all around. I only want to hear about things that have tanks and diesel fuel and you get to kill Germans." I pretty much figured out he didn't want to hear about the Monster Manual. Which btw, do folks know what when D&D moved from the 3 book set (i..e the white box....which I probably shouldn't have sold for what I thought were big bucks at the time) was actually the first thing published? The monster manual was $15, came out first and we literally could not rip open boxes fast enough to sell them.

Hope I didn't create confusion when I asked my question. was really just curious how folks handled it over the past 40 years. For example, we were also playing Traveller (I ran the GDW tourney's at Origins one year using the material that became Chamax Plague). Watching Traveller's Aid come out saying there was some insurgency in whatever sector....only to follow up a year or two later with the actual war was pretty cool to live real time. My point is that those tidbits were interpretedd and layed differently BEFORE you knew what was going to happen. FWIIW, I think it one of the problems with running or playing in a 'world' that has a scripted storyline that has major events. I"ve mentioned in some other places (an example of what I mean) that while it's my character that became Daine in Borderlands, the irony is Daine wasn't my runequest character that played in what became the Five Eyes Temple part of Borderlands. Daine was actually a D&D character, like Tarnak, that the author kindly wove into the story line as our moment of immortality! LOL I have NO idea how the following turned out. I know Greg have certain people 'license' (as opposed to an actual license) to write up new material in fanzines and such. It seems some of those topics/areas later got 'official' coverage and I just wonder how it got woven together. FWIIW, If I were running a RQ campaign today, I think you'd be better off setting it "off the beaten" track and let the script timeline touchy you briefly. i.e. set the campaign in say Alone, or Hendriki areas SE of Dragon Pass, etc. The truth is, all RPGs hang MUCH more on the quality of GM than the particular game system (D&D, RQ, Trav, etc.) or even the history (Glorantha or Tekumel).

Glad to hear Tad is still doing well. It's hard for me to realize how many have passed off the scene. I graduated HS in 1979. Was pure luck that through HS and for a few years in college (VIllanova) I worked part time at a store called Fantasy & Strategy World (later folded into Compleat Strategist). Through that, I had met a LOT of folks in the RPG and Wargaming World. One reason we drifted to RQ was the whole Glorantha Mythos but we participated in both Markland and SCA. The more 'realistic' combat of RQ where numbers/skill mattered as opposed to D&D (where 1 guy can kill 100 orcs no sweat) appealed to us. My memory is fuzzy but I think we had known Steve Perrin through at least one of those groups as well. The CON world was really active too in those days. Non-RPG, but I remember two guys walking into Origins (I think it was) with their Siege of Jerusalem game. Just blew us away. It was eventually published with some mods by Avalon Hill and myself and some local ftf wargamers still pay it regularly. I"ve got tons of Gygax stories but don't dare put them in print! How he essentially "lost" a lot his monetary value in D&D is story of Shakespearean/Biblical proportions. Greg was very nice to us but quite a bit older (well, when you are 18 and he's 29 that's a big gulf!) and we never really got to know him super well. Ironically, my one son who got really into certain computer gaming ending up getting to know Sandy somewhat I remember Tad as extremely kind. The era of say, 78-83, was sort of IMHO the glory years in that both wargame and RPG stuff was just exploding. A lot of stuff got printed, published and played. One of my great memories was running a traveller tournament (later published called the Chamax Plague or something close) at cons. It threw a lot of curveballs at the players (not 'crushing' them, just confusing to them) and really went well. It was interesting too to 'live through' the storyline developments of RQ and Traveller. When you enter those worlds today and get it all delivered on a plate its a different experience. Watching the war come in Traveller, or waiting another month to see how Fineous Fingers in the Dragon Magazine gets out of a problem, or NOT knowing a cradle is coming down the river was pretty cool. When I look back at all those games though, it really stands out that it's not the rules/game but the abilities of the GM (or Creator in terms of Stafford & Glorantha). I played in a number of 'home grown' systems that took the best elements of D&D, Trav, RQ and rearranged them. Sorry, didn't mean to drone on. Thanks for letting me get it out!

So, cue the laughter. When I started with Runequest there was no number...Just RQ (now called 1) although it wasn't long until 2 came out. One thing you should know about Borderlands, it was not universally pulled from one 'real' campaign like Steve's Pavis campaign or Greg's Sartar one. A number of folks submitted material to Chaosium for individual scenarios. Five Eyes Temple came from our group, although somewhat modified by the time it came to print. Some of the Chaosium folks (I seem to remember Tadashi being very active but don't think his name is anywhere in the credits) got the idea to mold them into the 'campaign' set of scenarios that Borderlands became. Here's the part you'll consider sad........my character (Daine) and Tarnak (the mayor) were never in our RQ campaign. They and the betrayal of Tarnak actually occured in our D&D campaign. In fact, my Daine, dwarf fighter, originated in "3 book, boxed D&D". Adding those characters was done to flesh out the story and (for which I'm appreciative) a 'shout out' to me for helping the author work on Five Eyes. I can close my eyes...and picture myself at his kitchen table coming up with Newtling names.....Roy...Foy...Soy....Zoy....:) I was fortunate that while we did not play in the Calf. RQ groups, we knew all the principles. Through my work at a (now defunct, then famous, gaming store in the mid 70's to early 80s while I was in high school then college I got to move in all the RPG and Wargame circles. Played D&D with Greg and Ernie Gygax..... I used to have a 3box D&D ruleset in which Dave Arneson wrote "May you always make your saving throw!" pretty cool times. It was neat to have 'inside info' which made our RQ games quite different than some of the others. Just great memories. I even posted somewhere else in here, and it made me laugh, because I reference Tada's High Tumulas and said something along the lines of "wonder how he is"..... And I got several folks answering in terms of Tada and Glorantha.....including the "Ta Da Shi" when I really simply meant I wonder how the person Tada Ehari is doing these days? ROFL You guys do know that a LOT of the geography of Prax and Dragon Pass are named after real people, right?

This is pretty funny. I think several of you mis-interpreted my post. First, no, I did NOT play in Steve Perrin's Pavis Campaign. He, and most of the core original folks, were all in California. We were in the Philly area. But borderlands per se did NOT grow out of his campaign. Borderlands' source were several different stand alone scenarios that were submitted to Chaosium. Who liked several of them, and then in house wove it together into a single module. The Five Eyes Temple was played in our campaign. But several of the characters and 'events' were lifted from earlier D&D campaigns. My main D&D character was Daine the Deathdealer which sourced Daine , Duke Raus' commander of mercs. Tarnak, the mayor in borderlands, knifed Daine in the back in our D&D setting. But we had regular contact with the CALF group, having a number of contacts in the wargaming and RPG community. I've played D&D with the Gary and Ernie Gygax and Dave Arneson. Regarding TADA....I'm laughing...I was not asking about the Gloranthan development of stuff related to Tada's High Tumulas...I was joking that did anyone realize that "Tada" is a real person? Tadashi Erhari (sp ?). He was part of Greg's group, later edited Tales of the Reaching Moon (maybe I have the name a bit off). I believe he's alive but not sure if he's part of the GLoranthan world anymore. The references someone above quoted in their post about the meaning of "ta da shi" and 'arranger of the lands".....also makes me laugh. He WAS the arranger of the lands, helping Greg lay out the map for the original Nomad Gods game. Which I remember playing quite regularly back then. I stop playing any RPG in the mid to late 80s, playing just wargames. I did some stuff with GDW in the Traveller world giving that up around '84 or so I think. All of my 5 kids (now grown) ended up playing RPG and regularly laugh at Dad's 'old stories". Just glad that even with Greg's passing Glorantha lives on. Runequest was always my favorite of all the RPGs.