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Dethstrok9

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Posts posted by Dethstrok9

  1. 2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    Yes, but that doesn't address the question. What about when a player fudges?

    According to the way both Chaosium and Wizards of the Coast package their products with GM screens, I believe the intent is for players to roll in the open and GMs to roll behind screens.

  2. 2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    I think that depends somewhat on the game and group. Not everything runs the same or should be run the same, IMO. I run RQ differently from how I run Amber, FATE, Star Trek or Bond.

    Entirely true, as I said, I think it is subjective on system, group, and preference. I was speaking of Call of Cthulhu specifically.

  3. 12 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

    Mad Wizard (let me tell you, those are definitely mad and psychopathic!) who merge multiple living creature's body to create some monstrous chimera. Merging their flesh into some unholy construct and, most verily, shattering their mind in the process!
    They shall forever be marked with the sign of inexpiable shame!

    The Monster. Frankenstein's monster. It's alive and all that jazz.

    • Haha 1
  4. Well, this is what to say to those who feel changing game elements is cheating or dishonest. All of this about whether or not fudging die rolls or other game components is cheating is completely subjective. This is my personal TTRPG Game Master Advice, and it's not a popular opinion. If you are always a player, maybe think twice before watching this one:)

    Also put a link to the forums in it, so hopefully we get some more interaction on here.

    • Thanks 1
  5. Well, this is what to say to those who feel changing game elements is cheating or dishonest. All of this about whether or not fudging die rolls or other game components is cheating is completely subjective. This is my personal TTRPG Game Master Advice, and it's not a popular opinion. If you are always a player, maybe think twice before watching this one:)

    • Like 1
  6. 3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    Okay. Why bother to post a reply if you won't be open to replies yourself? One thing about having any sort of discussion is that someone else might not agree with you.

    We now seem to be going over the same points now, which is likely why. We have been having a very constructive discussion, where klescer (among others including yourself) made lots of points and responded to most everything, it just seemed like it started going in circles. Plus it seemed to take a turn from lets talk subjectively about rules or fudging to you do it wrong. I've noticed that when the shift between subjective and personal happens the "discussion" suddenly becomes finger pointing and generally unbearable.

    Not only that, but the very word.

     

    Fudging.

     

    It's all your fault @Atgxtg, now I'm hungry!

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  7. 30 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    Is is becuase I agreed with the view that fuding is cheating? Well that's because it is cheating. By definition that is precisely what it is. But in an RPG cheating isn't necessarily a bad thing, the way is is in other game because a RPG isn't a competition. It isn't/shouldn't be the GM vs. the players but a cooperative effort.

    The rules are suggestions imo:)

    And yes, I completely agree it should be a co-operative effort.

  8. 36 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    Frankly I think fudigng to save Investigators in standard CoC is sort of counter prodcutive.

    Let me repeat, "I generally do NOT use fudging to protect anybody". I never use it unless it is imperative I do.

  9. 8 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

    This topic has been much debated over the years and never resolved.

    I would assume the correct answer differs from group to group and game to game. Not to mention system to system. It's all very subjective and what works in some cases will not work in others. To reiterate my opinion, there is no end all be all on this specific topic.

    • Like 1
  10. 1 minute ago, Atgxtg said:

    That's not fudging descriptions. At least not if the situation is written that way beforehand. A GM has the power to set up practically all the encounters and scenes beforehand.

    Now it is fudging if the GM alters stuff on the fly. 

    Improvisation is key, not being over-prepared with every situation written beforehand. Can any GM really believe they can foresee every possible situation and choice?

     

    4 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    t's usually easy to figure out, due to number of close calls. A good example would be any of those TV action shows where, despite all the gunfire no one ever seems to get shot or even seriously hurt. Reasonably perceptive players will tend to pick up on this , and even test the GM by taking greater risks or just by watching how the opposition consistently runs into bouts of bad luck right when they were about to win.

    It's hard to keep fudging a secret long term.

     This associates all fudging with plot armor and using an example of action films when referencing Call of Cthulhu: the game of cosmic dread and horror. Neither of these assumptions are correct. I do not generally use dice changes to protect anybody.

    If you let the tables turn and use both ups and downs effectively, it will not be abused or discovered. Characters die, people get captured, the bad guys can win. If it makes a more horrific story, so be it.

    9 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    Then the players immediately know there is fudging going on. Secret die rolls are a dead giveaway. There is really no other reason to roll dice behind the screen. 

    No other reason ehh? I beg to differ. How about rolling spot hidden so the players don't know if there's something there or not. For example, I always give some info with a spot hidden, the players never see nothing. I roll behind the screen, then tell them what they see. They now don't have the metagame mentality of "I rolled and failed, but there definitely was something there".

    13 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    Yes, it does. The GM is not playing fair. But, the GM doesn't necessarily have to play fair, as RPGs are by design inherently unfair. All are biased towards the players. That's not the problem. It when the GM is not treating the players the same when it becomes an issue. If a GM saves some PCs sometimes and not others, then he is playing favorites.

    We seem to be at a misunderstanding. I serve the narrative, not myself, and by not playing fair I misspoke. I meant, "the GM is not cheating". Not only that, but I would never alter rolls in life or death situations. 

    17 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

    Do your players know and accept that? Remember the game is also there for their enjoyment, as well as the GMs. Few players like the idea that the GM is going to override their actions and die rolls on a whim. 

     

    Now, I'm not saying that some occasionally fudging can't help at times, only that in my experience, I've seen fudging do far more harm to a campaign than good. All the players in the area know what GMs fudge regularly. 

    Yes my players do. I tell them, as I say in my videos, that in my games the plot comes first. They certainly don't know when I do what I do, but that's fine and even works with the themes of CoC. In my experience, which granted is not much, I have found improvisation and on the fly adjustments to be game savers and keep everything interesting. I can't account for all the players actions beforehand, so when I prepare a scenario, I make a list of NPCs, Locations, and some key events which I need to happen. These events do not need specific people or locations to work, they just are integral to my idea of the story. If the players go down a different road, then I can forgo anything and switch up everything if need be.

    • Like 1
  11. 3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    Or, conversely, don't write stupid outcomes for when the players fail roll or get beaten.

    This right here is what I think klecser meant by fudging descriptions instead. By keeping dice rolls normal and using the actual roll, but instead of the Investigator's head being blow off, the Investigator drops to one hit point or loses an arm due to the bad die roll.

     

    3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    You see it all the time on TV. The hero gets into a fight with some nameless thug who won't be appearing in next weeks episode. If we know the hero has "script immunity" here it just become dull and tedious to watch. If, however, the hero can actually get beaten up and dragged off to the thug's boss, things get less predicable and much more interesting.

    I try to keep the story moving and compelling, if that means fudging the dice or foregoing rolls so be it. It is not predictable because the players should not know. You keep insinuating that they will "eventually discover you aren't playing fair", when that is in no way the case. If you roll behind your screen, and only change the outcome when it seems appropriate, there should be no way the players see that, and that does not mean you aren't playing fair. The rules, the system, the statistics, and the dice are all tools. When they cease to be useful, I cease to make use of them.

     Besides that, I would never change a mediocre encounter like the one you just described and frankly would not include it in a CoC game anyway. There are no nameless thugs, everything should be woven into each other.If one person dies, a chain reaction should begin. There will never be nameless thugs.

    6 hours ago, commandercrud said:

    The dice are a tool to help direct the story, instead of it just being a GM/Player story hour. If you're ignoring the dice, you might as well just sit around a campfire and talk. The dice make it a game. You don't have to have a "video game" or "win" mentality to respect the role the dice play. As a Keeper, I can direct the story however I want, but if I decide to roll the dice, I'm going to use their result. If I'm going to just ignore what they say, then why bother rolling?

    Yes they are a tool in my hand and one should only use it when necessary. In fact that is a very good point, the real roll the dice play for me as Keeper is the way to determine how much success a player has in any given action. I personally don't use them that often, it's mostly for the players. And then you have situations where you call for a roll, for example spot hidden. Then the player fails, but you decide they will still notice what you wanted them to see anyway, but also make note that there was more they could have found. Is that cheating? Or is it moving the story forward?

     

     

    3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    The first is to do like D&D does with increasing hit points. Someone with 80 hit points in d20 Modern isn't going to drop even if he gets shot by a .50 cal!

    Another method is to write adventures to avoid a lot of conflict in the beginning. Yet another is a Luck point mechanic (or better yet a Hero Point mechanic). Still yet another is to stat up the NPCs so that such a result is unlikely.

    What you describe it not Call of Cthulhu or realistic, and also makes the game sound like winning is an inherent part. The way to avoid it, at least for me, is to not roll dice to much or to change things to suit the collective purpose of the game and story. Each character, including the PCs, serve the plot, not the other way around. The Investigators mold and shape the plot by their choices, and the Keeper leads it and connects the dots.

    By that logic of dice outcome changes is cheating, so is changing the stats of NPCs.

     

     Finally,  if the players think creating the story is less important then dice and stats, then they should find a different GM then me. I know that what I do works for myself, maybe it doesn't for you, but I stream my games and you can see how my players react to stuff. It's not negative.

  12. 4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

    But if I know the GM is going to fudge things so that they work out for me regardless, then I stop caring much about the game. It will all turn out the same no matter what I try do.

    So you think of the game a little more like a video game with its sense of accomplishment ect. Not as a storytelling game where the dice really should not be used much anyway.

    Which makes sense, but just is very different than how I run and play. The dice are not the gods of our world, we are.

    8 minutes ago, commandercrud said:

    Fudging is cheating.

    If there is a mentality that one can "win" a role-playing game. Otherwise, it is not cheating to collaboratively tell a compelling and engaging story better with the occasional die fudge. But I agree that if the players know it could very well ruin part of the game for them, and so my next conclusion is to generally not let players know you ever change rolls. Or which ones you change for that matter.

    In the end I will also put the disclaimer that my opinions on this are all based around Call of Cthulhu specifically. This rather general thread title implies an end all be all, but it depends on game, group,and subjective opinion whether fudging is okay or not.

    • Like 2
  13. 12 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

    Now why would ya want to recruit anywhere but here.

    As to why, it was mainly because I'm completely new to the system and most of those on here are not. Someone on reddit made a post saying they were new and looking for a GM, I said I could run for them, and then a bunch more people got on the bandwagon saying they had been wanting to try the system for some time.

  14. 11 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

    Now why would ya want to recruit anywhere but here. Sure, what should I roll up...Just a note, I can not guarantee a perfect connection on a saturday evening, I share wi fi so there may be interruptions if that is okay with you. 

    As to serious when have you known me to be anything else?

    We are still figuring stuff out. If you like I can dm you a discord link (if you use that that is:)

  15. 1419692086_ReflactionsThumbnail(1).png.66b8d8a0560c3a3825ee4eb73ad45f88.png

     

     Refractions of Glasston is the result of a creative collaboration between the Professional Writing department at Taylor University, Upland IN and Chaosium Inc. The creators are all students at Taylor University. As this fits perfectly into the themes of my channel, this is our LIVE playthrough.

     Elias Taylor Winters, the CEO of TWJ Co., discovered a secret to the glass-making process that finally put him above his long-standing competition: Ball Glass. Shattering expectations for such a small company in rural Indiana, Winters has put Glasston on the map. The town and its economy are booming. But not everything in Glasston is as it should be. Refractions of Glasston is a standalone scenario for Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition. It takes place in a rural town in northwest Indiana, set in the 1920s.

     

     We are going live May 16, 2020. Saturday @ 5 PM Eastern Standard Time. Join us, if you dare!

    Also, I'm pretty excited to try out my new Zoom subscription, and you (hopefully) will be able to see everyone this stream! 

    Event link: https://youtu.be/9jCB8jGFGkg

    • Like 1
  16.  

    1419692086_ReflactionsThumbnail(1).png.66b8d8a0560c3a3825ee4eb73ad45f88.png

     

     Refractions of Glasston is the result of a creative collaboration between the Professional Writing department at Taylor University, Upland IN and Chaosium Inc. The creators are all students at Taylor University. As this fits perfectly into the themes of my channel, this is our LIVE playthrough.

     Elias Taylor Winters, the CEO of TWJ Co., discovered a secret to the glass-making process that finally put him above his long-standing competition: Ball Glass. Shattering expectations for such a small company in rural Indiana, Winters has put Glasston on the map. The town and its economy are booming. But not everything in Glasston is as it should be. Refractions of Glasston is a standalone scenario for Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition. It takes place in a rural town in northwest Indiana, set in the 1920s.

     

     We are going live May 16, 2020. Saturday @ 5 PM Eastern Standard Time. Join us, if you dare!

    Also, I'm pretty excited to try out my new Zoom subscription, and you (hopefully) will be able to see everyone this stream! 

    Event link: https://youtu.be/9jCB8jGFGkg

  17. 1419692086_ReflactionsThumbnail(1).png.66b8d8a0560c3a3825ee4eb73ad45f88.png

     

     Refractions of Glasston is the result of a creative collaboration between the Professional Writing department at Taylor University, Upland IN and Chaosium Inc. The creators are all students at Taylor University. As this fits perfectly into the themes of my channel, this is our LIVE playthrough.

     Elias Taylor Winters, the CEO of TWJ Co., discovered a secret to the glass-making process that finally put him above his long-standing competition: Ball Glass. Shattering expectations for such a small company in rural Indiana, Winters has put Glasston on the map. The town and its economy are booming. But not everything in Glasston is as it should be. Refractions of Glasston is a standalone scenario for Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition. It takes place in a rural town in northwest Indiana, set in the 1920s.

     

     We are going live May 16, 2020. Saturday @ 5 PM Eastern Standard Time. Join us, if you dare!

    Also, I'm pretty excited to try out my new Zoom subscription, and you (hopefully) will be able to see everyone this stream! 

    Event link: https://youtu.be/9jCB8jGFGkg

    • Like 1
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