Baba

Thank you, sounds like fun!

So, after seven years, Camlann is coming up for us, and I want it to be as good as it can be. When you played through it, what did you think worked well, and what less so? What did you change from the Great Pendragon Campaign? Are there any fun ideas from your playthrough that you were happy with, or any ideas you got afterwards that you wish that you had used?

What we ended up with in our group: We didn't add more uses for app, because we didn't feel the game needed it - I haven't seen any ideas for making APP better that I think makes the GAME better, they are only bandaids for APP We didn't remove APP, because it seemed like a bigger change than we wanted So instead we tried to make your APP value not impact your other stats much. You didn't have to be weak or clumsy or small to be beautiful, because being beautiful isn't as usefull in the game as being strong or large. So at character generation: a) set APP to whatever you like between 5 and 10, then: b) place 50 points freely between all attributes, with no attribute lower than 5 or higher than 18. Points you put in APP counts double. Then: c) add your cultural bonus (typically +3 con) A bit clunky, but it has worked well for us. No need to think about it except at character generation. APP sometimes has an effect ingame when we feel like it should - but most nights it doesn't.

Our group handles it pretty much exactly as Morien describes. Except that one time, when the new player knight (son) made his bastard brother a vassal in exchange for murdering the old player knight (their father) in secret.

I have it. I think it matches? Castle of the Crane is not in the kingdoms map of that book, but it is in the details map - and that seems to match the map in the adventure itself.

Thank you both! Roestoc seems like my mistake (our knights have only ever passed through.) «Trane» is norwegian for «crane», so that is supposed to be the domain of King Garan from the quest of the Red Blade.

Are you sure about starting with the bear hunt? I wonder if it‘s not the most inspiring start - it feels a bit like a tutorial to me. I think I would recommend dropping it, and jumping right to something more meaty. Or keeping it, but building it out to somehow making it more personal for the player knights. One obvious trick, if family history allows it: Maybe the father (or older brother) of one of the player knights went out to slay it, but has not returned. They can find him dead before they find the bear.

He’s welcome. He can watch me having Teams-meetings all day.

I see there’s an «export to psd» option, so I’ll try it. I don’t have Photoshop installed, so I can’t chech them afterwards - but I’m guessing it will work fine. *** I didn`t manage to upload them in this message - probably to large - but I put them here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aq2R2IgB_oCwiKZB4j-DArAg_yARFg *** The jpg-versions fit in this message, so I added them. The psd-versions, with layers for easier editing, are behind the link.

Thank you both! And thanks for the tips. Yes, I’ve drawn the map - it’s mainly a mix of the ones in Blood and Lust and in Pendragon 5.x, with some small changes/modifications. It’s drawn in Procreate - I’d be happy to share a procreate version with the layers intact so that it’s easier to change, if anyone has a use for it.

Not sure where to go from here, though - specifically, the grail quest is coming up, and I’m struggling a bit with how to make it personal and an integral part of the story of the player knights, rather than just going through the mystical motions. It should be a big deal, and the PK’s should be main characters in their own story. Extra wrinkle: One PK is extremely religious, two PK’s are only moderately religious.

I’m really intrigued by this - looking forward to seing it. It looks beautiful.

We finally resumed our Pendragon campaign yesterday, after a long covid-pause. I've seen some people sharing their campaign resumees here. Finally gaming again gave me such a boost that I wanted to do the same. So. The year is 550. These are the characters, third generation of their lines: PK1: Aston. Deeply religious. Spurned the love of his life to follow God. Son of a wicked and flawed father, clumsy and uncertain in his dealings with people and knightly ideals, but adamant in his will to do the right thing, if he only can find it. His squire is Elias, weakling youngest son of Duke Hervis, detested by his father. PK2: Hervis (the younger), second cousin of Aston. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and lucky all through his life, already a round table knight. Estate holder of Thetford and maternal grandson of Hervis (the older), duke of Anglia. Extremely outspoken, just, lazy and fond of hunting. PK3: Not appearing in this story, because I'm the GM today. They have mostly had romantic and magical adventures, but the tournament period is coming to and end, so they are going to get dragged into the mud of their ancestors. The duke's wrath Early May in Angleland. Aston is visiting Hervis in Thetford, his squire is visiting his father in Norwich. A group of knights arrive, bearing news: The duke's heir has been murdered on the road, probably by angle bandits, who have then molested the body and displayed it along the King's Road. The duke, mad with grief and rage, has decreed that ten grown men in every angle village is to be hanged. His grandson flat out refuses, sends the knights on their way, and the two PK's then ride to Norwich to talk some sense into the hardheaded duke. Before they leave, Hervis' wife remind him that their own serfs gave her wreaths on her wedding day, and carved a cradle when their daughter was born. On the way they stop at the murder site, and Hervis the younger, being a marvelous hunter with an even more marvelous dog, manages to track down an empty outlaw camp in the forest, with a large hidden stockpile of weapons. They hide for some time there, before surprising a single outlaw. They press him for information, revealing that the murderer is Dunlin, famed angle outlaw leader, who has evaded the knights for decades in the fens and forests. He has planned an uprising for years, there are hidden camps and stockpiles everywhere. They have no idea where he is though. Hervis (the younger) promised to let the man go unharmed if he talked, so he does. The duke's court The duke is very interested in their news, but not at all interested in their opinions. They get some more news: Some days ago the angle serfs of Dilham, enraged by the hangings, turned on their British masters and killed all of them, then burned the small castle there. In retaliation the Duke have completely wiped out the angle village near Dilham. Hervis the younger is very frank with his grandfather, so frank that anyone else would have been in dire straits. He gets away with a severe tongue lashing and dismissal. Aston tries to appeal to the duke's better nature and the will of God. He is mocked in court, and losing faith in himself, he goes to sob in the stable for days. His loving squire Elias, the duke's fifteen year old sole remaining son and heir, goes to comfort him and make him eat something. Aston is violently enraged by the disturbance, and almost strangles the squire. He then realizes, though, that he has at least reached one heart: Elias shares his beliefs. He calms down, and thanks the boy. That night a servant tries to murder the duke in his bed. The 78 year old duke is stabbed in the shoulder, but then promptly breaks the servants skull, lifts him over his head, walks out of his bedroom, and throws him three floors down to the floor of the great hall. Throughout the day, more news arrive: There has been coordinated attacks against eight castles, five of them successful. In all cases the outlaws have attacked from the inside, somehow slipping through defenses, probably helped by servants and peasants, and then disappearing into the woods and fens. The duke has gathered his army and received scout reports for days, and he believes Dunlin is to be found in the fens near Weeting. He marches out to crush the presumed leader of the rebellion, and the player knights follow him. Elias remains in Norwich with a knight and fifty footmen. The hunt They find Buckenham pillaged and empty, and Hervis the younger gets word that his half sister and her entire family have been massacred in their manor by rebels further south. He is relieved to find that Thetford has seen no trouble, however. His viper-tongued stepmother is distraught hearing about the murder of her daughter. With everyone watching, she accuses her stepson of weakness and cowardice in his soft handling of the angles. In anger, he hits her. This is presumably going to lead to trouble some other year. They continue to Weeting to find a burned castle, dead knights, ten hanged serfs in the trees, dour and frightened serfs. They make camp, send out scouts, start to gather boats and build rafts. Hervis the younger points out that hunting outlaws with an army in the enormous fens is a fool’s errand, but is ignored. Night in the fens In the night they are attacked by throwing spears from the fens. The duke charges out to meet the attackers head on, forcing his horse into the water, and several knights follow him, including the player knights. Hervis manages to follow, Aston gets sidetracked in the darkness. Aston finds himself facing three outlaws, but is hindered by his armor in the water, gets stabbed, looses consciousness in the water, and goes under. His other squire (not Elias) has lost track of where he is, as has everybody else. Hervis and his group is surprised by sudden bonfires in the fens, crashing towards them on rafts filled with oilsoaked, dry turf, scaring their horses. The duke charges ahead, ignoring them. Dunlin Hervis is alone when he finds his grandfather. He is on the ground, wounded, Dunlin sitting on top of him with a knife to his throat. The outlaw stops Hervis with a warning hand, then continues to tell the duke something. Dunlin has gotten hold of the revered helmet of the Bretwalda. A master smith made it for Cerdic, the angle and saxon kings all fought for it, and Ælle got it in the end – but it was lost after Badon. Dunlin has given it to Daegal of Stoneham, and convinced him to use it. Daegal is one of the most respected leaders of the angles. He fought at Badon, but bent the knee, then rebelled at Guinnon years ago and was one of the few survivors. Since then he has argued for peace with the British, up until the duke hanged his son, as one of ten random men from his village. Now he is amassing an army, kindled by the atrocities of Duke Hervis. Then Dunlin cuts the duke’s throat. He leaps up to meet a new attacker, inspired by his hatred of knights, but fumbles and goes insane: Through the mist he sees the man he just killed, alive and well, charging him. Hervis cleaves his head. In the morning the ragged army gathers at the shore, Hervis returning with the bodies of his grandfather and Dunlin. Aston is presumed dead. They set the course for Norwich. The grail sighting Aston is lying on a tiny islet in the fens, dying. He can’t move. Everything is quiet. A wonderful, sweet scent fills is nostrils. A seemingly softly glowing cup, covered by a cloth, drifts past him, then disappears. His wounds are healed. He trudges through the fens, but has no idea where he is. After hours he finds a small island with a settlement, but all the ten angle peasants who lived there have been hanged. In the backyard he finds an abandoned, golden-haired two year old boy. He finds some food, gets some rest, picks up the boy in his arms, an looses his way in the fens again. He is exhausted. At some point he ditches all his armor and walks on without it. The angle boy gets heavier and heavier. He is quiet, pressed up against his chest. Aston feels like he can’t take another step, but then he does, and then he finds the water is more shallow, and then he is on dry land. He stumbles to the ground, and notices that the boy has an iron cross around his neck. Some serf finds them, and does not murder the knight, but give him food and shelter. The next morning he leaves for Thetford. The serfs offer to keep and care for the boy, but Aston takes him along, leaves him temporarily at Thetford, calls him his son. Elsewhere Unknown to the players knights, round table knight Sir Bleoberis leads the army of his father in law, the count of Essex, northwards to help. But when he gets word that the count has been murdered by a serf and there is rebellion in Essex as well, he turns his army around to beat it down, and no help arrives. Further away, Sir Griflet is leading an army from Camelot, but they won't arrive until everything is over. To attack, or not to attack. The army looks to Hervis for leadership, and he leads them to Norwich. Norwich the city, however, has opened it’s gates to the peasant army of King Daegal. Now the gates are closed, and angles man the walls. Fifteen year old Elias still holds the very strong castle, but with only a tiny group of surviving defenders. The angles want him dead, to settle things. The army looks to Hervis for leadership, and he is wracked by uncertainty. They guard the gates, hindering anyone from leaving or entering. He makes a plan involving ladders and a surprise midnight attack. They construct the ladders, but then he is convinced that he will be sending everyone to die on the strong walls of Norwich. For an entire night, he continues to change his mind: He orders the men to prepare the attack, then orders them to stand down six times. He is still struggling with indecision when daylight comes, then he goes to sleep. Everyone is affected by his indecision, the knights begin to argue amongst themselves what to do, a fight breaks out. Hervis hangs all his hopes on the moon: He declares that in four days the moon will be new, and the night will be very dark, THEN they will attack. Aston arrives alive, and everyone rejoices. On the fourth night everyone is ready again, except Hervis – he’s still in his tent. Aston goes in, and finds him wracked by indecision again. He tries to talk sense to him, but Hervis flies into a rage and tries to kill him with a chair. Then he come to his senses, shaken but certain, and orders the attack. King Daegal of Angleland They succeed. They fight their way to the castle without big losses, and finds refuge there. Now the castle is very well defended. There’s lots of food and a deep well. Sooner or later knights will arrive from the south, and the rebellion will be over – everyone knows it. Hervis tells Daegal to lay down arms. Daegal will only do so if everyone but him goes free, and their crimes are forgotten. Hervis looks to Elias, Elias looks to Aston, Aston nods, Elias agrees. Hervis is famously just and known for treating the angles fairly, so Daegal agrees. Quietly every rebel leaves their weapons and slip out through the gates, back to their villages. Then Daegal steps out in front of the castle, alone, wearing the helmet of the Bretwalda – he will NOT bend the knee again. The knights mock him and want to hang him, but he asks someone to come out and fight him. Hervis is severely wounded, but he agrees. They fight in single combat, and Daegal is slain. Winter phase The rebellion dies down. Arthur makes Hervis Baron of the Brecklands. The king assures Elias' right of succesion, but does not give him all of his fathers lands, and places a round table knight as his guardian until he is ready to be knighted. Elias convinces his guardian to reward Aston with three manors. A cold winter night Manon, the young wife of Hervis, gives him his first son, but dies in labor. He cannot bear to look at the boy.

We’re closing in on the grail quest now, and I’m not sure how to handle it. I didn’t expect any of the characters to be especially grail-worthy, but now we actually have one who is extremely devout, although still no Galahad. One thing we HAVE done, is limiting the wasteland to Listeneise. In spite of Boorman it didn’t feel right to us to let it cover the whole map. (Galahads story seems a bit weird: He has lived his entire life in the grail castle, next door to the grail. The very first time he leaves his home as an adult, he just stays in Camelot for a couple of hours, before he begins his big four-year quest of finding the way back to the place where he has spent 99% of his life. He only left it to go to Camelot and start the quest!)

In our game some vassals rebelled in Salisbury during Anarchy. Very treacherously, they struck Sarum at night without warning, from within. The PKs were there, but didn’t manage to stop it - they DID manage to escape with the child heir Robert though. The new count Bryn married Jenna to make his rule «legitimate». He also promptly swore fealty to Ulfius. The PKs were landless for some years, and had to search for homes for their large families, hooking up with Nanteleod. In 509 they helped a now grown Robert retake Sarum and behead Bryn. A second generation PK eventually married Jenna, and fostered her son and heir by Bryn. We were all curious about how the boy was going to turn out, but he ended up a reasonably good knight. He is half brother to the current third generation PK, nephew to the count, Castellan of Borders, and the nicest guy in the posse of the son and heir of Robert. The heir of Robert is a vain, pampered bully, and a good friend of Mordred.

Perhaps, but... in Malory, all the knights seem to be smiting each other with swords if on foot, or with spears if on horseback. And use shields. That’s my impression, anyway, even though I haven’t counted weapon occurences. In this case I think I would rather look for inspiration in the stories than in actual historical warfare - and then it doesn’t feel quite right to see the onehanded sword demoted to a fallback weapon.

I’m curious about the armor values in 6th ed. In our campaign, we houseruled them a bit lower.

I like it! It’s fine as it is, but I think I would want to tweak it a bit: I would let both do critical damage (6th ed crits, though, and no major wounds unless they go unconscious), to make sure that they actually take damage, but give them armor from their shields. This way it’s possible for them to reach their unconscious rating and take major wounds simultanously, like Ector and Percivale in the woods before the grail heals them, or even kill each other, like Arthur and Mordred. If they didn’t get armor from their shields, then that seems like an unfitting advantage for a knight using a twohanded weapon.

That will probably vary a lot from group to group, and I think there’s a lot of wiggle room before the players get too starved or too spoiled. But you seem to be following the same pace as us, or maybe a bit slower. Our first dead player knight went down at Netley Marsh in 508, gaining 1000 glory and ending up at 9761. He was the most glorious PK at the time, but the others were also close to getting famous after 24 years and many great deeds. * Our experience with that first generation made us adopt a few glory houserules. The main thrust of them was to reduce passive yearly glory. We didn’t like that the knights would often get more glory passively than from things we had actually played out.

So that means... If I’m a knight on horseback facing three footmen. And I choose to ignore the third, to better beat down the two others. Against no. 1: I’ll get -5 (two opponents) and +5 (height), so no modifier. He will get -5 for height. Against no. 2 it will be the same. No. 3 will get an unoposed attack against me, but seemingly still at -5 for height? I could choose to try defeating alle three at once, but then I would get an extra -5 on alle the rolls.

I was thinking the same thing. My personal taste: I think the system has the best «feel» with skills between 10-19, and then progressively more off the higher a skill gets. Always failing in skills you «should» be somewhat familiar with feels weird, never failing and critting half the time also feels weird. At our table we have done two things about that: We give some small freebee points to skills under 10, both at character generation and later. And we have lowered the «baseline» values of weapon skills. Now, the characters don’t push all of their points into weapon skills even though that is the most strategic choice. But neither does npc knights. Young knights will have a 15, experienced knights 18, really good ones 20, and round table knights mostly betwen 21 and 24. Even good old Lancelot is currently at «only» 28. No player knight has ever been higher than 24. We didn’t need an actual houserule to do this, just an understanding. And to me, the system doesn’t creak as much without those massive skills. This horsemanship rule could pull in the same direction. The new rules for multiple opponents are also more lenient to knights with lower weapon skills.

I like that layout and those illustrations a lot!

Sounds good!

After pondering the new passion rules a bit more: One of the main thrusts of the changes to the passion rules seems to be encouraging use of the whole scale of values? Three things I have not been quite happy about with the 5.2 passion system: 1) Your passion value is supposed to represent the strength of your passion. But if it does, then you should probably be affected negatively by your passion MORE often if the value is high, and in 5.2 that is the other way around. Lancelot goes mad all the time, but it's hard to see how the system could help us emulate his bouts of madness - using the system he probably wouldn't go mad at all, with his skyrocketing score in Love (Guenever). (We houseruled that the passion value doesn't really rate STRENGTH as much as it rates whether the passion is mostly a positive or negative influence on your mind. So you could be EXTREMELY passionate about something with a value of 13, but it would often make you melancholic.) 2) No one in our group wanted to use a passion with a value lower than 11 - the risk was just to great. In practice they didn't exist, at least mechanically. (After a while we houseruled that most new passions start at 10+1d6.) 3) If you reach 20, the tension is gone. You just get at +10 when you invoke the passion. We found that a bit boring, and also too good. (We decided to cap passions at 19 without exceptions.) Looking at the new rules, they seem to at least partly adress my first and second complaint. You passion affects you more negatively if you cross the 16+ threshold, and it now makes more sense to invoke low passions. Looking at the pregenerated characters, they all have some low passions. The change from +10 to +5: I'm not sure, but I think it will be fine. I want passions to be a BIG influence, but +5 IS very good. And if it's a famous passion, you will still have a shot at the +10 with a crit. Consequence-free failures at lower scores than 15: Cautiously positive. It will make people actually use those passions. And with the lowered bonus for a success, maybe a bit more passions tests won't be a problem. I'm a bit iffy on a result of "no consequence, nothing happens" - but I guess there is SOME consequence: You don't get the inspiration you need. There is a small dramatic beat in there, too: Your devotion to God (or whatever) wasn't strong enough, you have to make do on your own. Exalted Passions: Very sceptical. I would have liked to see passions capped at 19 to keep some risk, now you are instead encouraged to get them to 20+ to get those sweet exalted bonuses. But there is a note about negative modifiers there. We seldom use any modifiers on Passion tests, maybe we will be encouraged to add more negative modifiers to passion rolls in 6th? Short madness: In 5th, I think we've had characters storming into the woods and disappearing for months maybe... five times in five years? And all of those have been great for our game and that character. I don't think 1d6+5 days would have had the same impact. But: We finish most years in one evening. I've heard of a lot of games where that isn't the case, and in those games disappearing for a year could probably be a lot more disruptive.

Hm, you're right, I didn't notice that. But there is something odd here: Shouldn't a coat of plates give better protection than a reinforced mail? Maybe the rules in the npc stat block and the pk stat block use different rules drafts.