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What's an assistant shaman to do??


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4 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Like, they started as human and went full Sky/Fire rune (man when are we gonna get a rune font on this site, good lord).

We're trespassing on the RQ Forum borders here, but:

How do we know the ten cities of Dara Happa were inhabited by humans?

Alkoth revealed itself in the Greater Darkness and well into the Dawn Age to have been the home of Shadzoring darkness demons that looked suspiciously like troll depictions of Zorak Zoran. Elempur, the southernmost of the seven cities of Anaxial was destroyed fairly early on without its inhabitants getting much narrative light. It also happens to be fairly close to the only site we know to have been inhabited by Gold Wheel Dancers, in Aggar. And I wouldn't be much surprised if the founders of Verapur in the north had been humanoid birds - possibly based on raptor birds - similar to the Parrot People of Forng in the East Isles. Also, how much bat was there in Mernita before a lot of blue moon debris crushed (most of) the place?


4 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Descriptions of kitori vary but it's clear they at minimum could appear in a form not unlike the Tuskers, something like a hybrid.

Actually, that is a description that has never been made for any of the Kitori. As agents of the Only Old One, they come with a lead mask made to fit a troll skull, a black cloak, and a spear. The entire arrangement is assembled in a way that made it hard to guess what exactly hid behind that mask.


4 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Too bad he didn't have kids with an uz, the Unity Council might have avoided the whole Gbaji problem.

But then his offspring might have burnt Korasting's womb, instead of Nysalor/D'Wargon.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis


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1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:


Do I have to imagine a white persian cat being stroked?



1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

who in the four, or perhaps five, hells is this

D'Wargon or Womb Biter is the uz name for the demon swallowed by the Black Eater which wounded Korasting's womb, leading to the Curse of Kin. It may be a title, it may be a specific entity recognized by the Uz that only shares some aspects with Nysalor as understood in the Cults of Terror write-up.

David Cake used the term in a 1996 post, well before Drastic: Darkness, so it must have been in the troll material earlier.

RQ2 Trollpak uses Gbaji (never Nysalor) in its dirge about the Curse of Kin.

Edited by Joerg
site update when correcting premature saving

Telling how it is excessive verbis


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8 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I see so little evidence of them before Time, though. Only the other elder races.

Oh, right: paging @jajagappa

Forcing me back into the Archives of Ancient Times, I see....

So, starting with the canonical source (aka the Guide p.189): This mysterious race, known variously as the Gold Wheel Dancers, Sun Wheel Dancers, Silver People, or the Yardoni,
was a remnant of the Gods Age that survived the Great Darkness. They were demigods, variously described as a golden circle, a flaming wheel, or a silver dancer surrounded by a fiery golden halo. They helped found the original World Council of Friends at the Dawn, but died out soon after.

Now, going back to the only other published source, the Broken Council Guide/LARP material including the Speaking Wheel writeup (which I have since I'm the one who played him).

8 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Etymologically I suspect they'd have Fire and Harmony, possibly as the origin of Harana Ilor's musical iconography. Speaking Wheel at least was strong enough in Harmony to fill that seat in the Council.

Correct, Fire and Harmony are the primary Runes, plus the ability to Change, so some amount of the Movement Rune as well.  The following is from the Speaking Wheel material:



The Celestial Court and the Elemental Deities. The original gods and beings of power brought creation into existence. All things were created by the members of the Celestial Court by mixing various amounts of the Elements. The greatest of the Celestial Court is Harana Ilor, goddess of Harmony and Peace.


1. In the beginning, the Celestial Court integrated the patterns of Elements into the Cosmic Matrix

2. As the matrix grew the deities became less isolated from the rest of the world and worked together on it in Harmony.

3. The people of the Golden Wheel were created by being filled with the Element of Fire.

4. In the first great war between Dragons and the Elder Giants, the great Earth protected the Gold Wheel Dancers.

5. As a result of the great war, the people of the Golden Wheel were able to change their shape into that of useful tools.

6. In the end, all will become their final form.

Speaking Wheel had one primary personal ability (Become Tool) and one primary magical ability (Change Shape). He also initially had all the other 9 Gold Wheel Dancers who had already transformed into their final tool forms (Golden Axe, Golden Chalice, Golden Fire-Stone, Golden Hammer, Golden Key, etc.).

8 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I see so little evidence of them before Time, though.

There were never many of them - only 10 at the Dawn.

As for the fate of Speaking Wheel himself, that's described in my story "Song of the Sixth Day" printed in the Broken Council Guidebook. But as it notes:

"We waited at Dawn on the Sixth Day for our beloved Osentalka to reveal her next form. And when she came from the cave of her birth, she was no longer herself. Instead she bore the image of one known only to us as the Speak Wheel. She was he and his form flickered as if it contained the very essence of his celestial father, Aether, but bound only for the moment.  In his left hand he held a golden key and in his right hand he held a fiery trumpet of gold that sang even though it was not raised to his lips...

"All looked then as the fiery trumpet that was and is Speaking Wheel raised a song to Command Silence. 'The Egg of Transformation cracked and opened. I was One and Many then and knew the Void. With the fiery trumpet that was and is the song and substance of Speaking Wheel, I called forth the Blessing that is the True Power of Harmony and bring the True Power of Vengeance to those of the Void.... With the fiery trumpet that was and is the song and substance of Speaking Wheel, I revealed the Truth of Transformation that was the power of the One and is now to be found by All.'

So we heard the song of Osentalka. He raised the fiery trumpet that was and is Speaking Wheel so that we, too, could hear the full song. He raised the golden key so that we, too, could unlock the transformations still held within our hearts. We were blessed for we heard and understood the Song of the Sixth Day."

Edited by jajagappa
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On the Spirit Rune - the exact relationships of the Runes on a character sheet is a game abstraction, expressed in Gloranthan terms. So Runes in one game don't exactly correspond to their use in another. And in general, HeroQuest works at a higher level of abstraction. A single ability in HeroQuest may be represented as a cluster of related abilities in RuneQuest. A high Rune rating in HeroQuest is not the same as a high Rune Rating in RuneQuest - one difference between the two is a character with a high HeroQuest Rune ability would imply that in RuneQuest he had a high Rune %age, but also Rune Points with god related to that Rune and spirit magic related to that element. And Runes in one do not always correspond to Runes in the other (and of course also when comparing either to 13th Age). And IMO the Spirit rune in HeroQuest correspond mostly to the level of the various skills and spirit magic spells with Spirit in the name in RQG - and after a certain level (around 11 Mastery) it also becomes also about the power of your Fetch, Rune Points wth a shamanic tradition, etc. 

Its not just this abstraction issue though - literally the philosophic meaning of abiities differs between the games. In HQ, a rune is your ability to solve a problem, RQ has a far more simulationist method. 

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5 hours ago, davecake said:

In HQ, a rune is your ability to solve a problem, RQ has a far more simulationist method. 

This is outside this subforum but I struggle with the somewhat grognardian simulationism of Runequest (I get to say that, I'm a legit grognard, plus it has hit areas) and its focus on mythic themes. Doing maths so my duck can reenact the Great Leap of Beaverman is something I'm having a lot of time wrapping my head around 😞

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