Heroic Lhankor Mhy Questions

[Tindalos]

11 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

Rather than being a polestar God, particularly given a Pentan context, I would propose the tent pole being a shamanic axis mundi, down which celestial spiritual truth is drawn. 

The polestar as being one end of the axis mundi, so this makes sense. He could the Pillar God, of which little has been mentioned (unlike the Pillar goddess).

 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

I wonder how much rational decision was behind the color scheme that the GM screen color version of the Gods Wall shows was dictated to the artist. Judging from Jeff's previous record at art direction and the results e.g. for the overseers, quite a bit.

The figure 1.3, identified as Buserian by Plentonius (and apparently never contested) wears a golden hat with a white rim, a gold-hemmed red coat (toga?) over a gold-hemmed white skirt, and golden boots.

Oh, and just forgot about this. I'm wondering if the "hats" seen on the overseers are actually their heads.

We can see in Six Ages that the Alkothi have high domed skulls, which may be due to their demonic blood, but may also be an aspect of head binding, to resemble their celestial high-skulled ancestors. The Jenarong era depiction of Bijiif (FS 9) may also show signs of this.

My suspicion is that the plaster on top is painted to conform to modern sensibilities, turning the skulls and their crowns into hats.

It's possible even the runes themselves are later additions, and the original figures had only featureless orbs above them, painted with whatever rune seems applicable. Certainly Shargash seems very unlike his usual description.

[Qizilbashwoman]

10 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

It is a matter of the context - theistic or animistic.  The pole star tengri of the Eurasian steppe is spirit rather than god, in so far as the division has any meaning.

  I would see Buserian as a vibrant spirit of the steppe adopted as a god by the settled wimps of civilised Dara Happa. 

No personal prejudice involved 😇

I mean, as I was reading RQG last night the text observed the practical difference between the two was the number of worshippers.

Maybe the interaction between the monomyth and cultural myths is the growth of individual spirit cults into God-size chunks. (Well, and in the case of living demigods, their ascent to divinity, which is a separate step apparently involving some kind of very stressful heroquesting.)

Wimps? I guess you'd disapprove of modern Koreans offering Starbucks coffee beans to the Pole Star now, then. (Yes, this is real.)

6 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

but may also be an aspect of head binding

I strongly believe it to be head-binding; it's even illustrated somewhere - the Guide, maybe? The Alkothi might have done it to imitate the Shadzoring, but I think it was a Pelorian practice.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Qizilbashwoman]

oop I can't find the images I'm looking for that fast because there are like 1000 Glorantha books so in the meantime, here's the non/semi-canonical but entirely entertaining Six Ages video game illustration of Alkothi raiders with both head-bound skulls and actual Shadzoring visible and a shot of a Dara Happan ambassador with a Alkothi warrior guards.

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Rather than being a polestar God, particularly given a Pentan context, I would propose the tent pole being a shamanic axis mundi, down which celestial spiritual truth is drawn. 

The Pentians might believe that, but no self-respecting Dara Happan would believe anything so Pentian. He could be Yelm's Pillar instead, that links the world to the Sky World.

[Qizilbashwoman]

13 minutes ago, soltakss said:

The Pentians might believe that, but no self-respecting Dara Happan would believe anything so Pentian. He could be Yelm's Pillar instead, that links the world to the Sky World.

well of course we're not trying to convince Dara Happans of anything, this is entirely off-the-books discussions. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

Maybe I'm dumb, but given his name and association with cattle-sacrifice, I've always associated Buserian (and the feminine Pelandan BusEnari, wich both seem to derive from the archaic Pelandan "Bus" ideogram, which means cattle) with western cultural influx rather than Pentan/eastern influx.

Given the successive waves of Storm Cattle peoples (Tawars and their derived groups) that migrated up the Janube river basin from Fronela in the late Golden or early Storm Age, I'd assumed that this was the natural migration path of the cattle-sacrificing beared scholar guy as well. We know that Bisos appears to have arrived in the same way, having become integrated into the Pelandan/Wendarian pantheon at some point (to the point of being given a native genealogy, much like Buserian would get in Dara Happa).

It gives us a common hypothetical western origin of both Lhankor Mhy and Buserian, meaning that we could arguably say that they originate from the escaping Danmalastani (Malkioni) scholars (of which the Zzaburi are also bearded and tall(-hatted), of course) - I forget whether it's the Tadeniti or Kachasti/Kachisti who are hypothesized as the originators, but the speculative trajectory I see is something like this:
Fleeing Malkioni sorcerers -> Migratory Storm scholars -> Pelandan/Pelorian scholars.

You could also argue that star-lore only really becomes useful AFTER Umath wrecks the sky, since prior to that, the Sky was so utterly regular and predictable that no one really needed to specialize in order to learn it. This could be used to explain why stargazers did not become specialized until after Storm bull people became a thing. Besides, during Yelm/Murharzam's heyday, you could probably just fly up to the stars to talk with them rather than having to gaze at them from towers anyway. And lastly, before Storm/Cattle people became a thing, you would probably not sacrifice cattle, but stuff like birds and people ("sacrifice" being a very different thing in an existence that lacked actual Death).

If looking at origins within Time, then Pent was empty during the Gray Age (aside from trolls, Hsunchen and Aldryami, if I recall correctly). Contrary to the ReAscent's polemics, Peloria was not invaded by horse nomads - the horse nomads originated in Peloria, as they were refugees from Dara Happa during the Ice Age, who used the newly introduced horse to survive outside the Dome. To me, that seems to make an "introduction" of Buserian "from" the Jenarong to the Pelorians a little absurd. The Jenarong ruled at Dawn, as native Pelorians. Then they got kicked out by the revitalized urbanists, to their land of exile, Pent, where they have stayed mostly since.

Anyway, sorry if I misunderstood things. We're in pretty esoteric areas now, and I've been known to get things mixed up.

Also, deepest apologies to OP for getting dragged into this maelstrom of nerdery.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[scott-martin]

15 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Also, deepest apologies to OP for getting dragged into this maelstrom of nerdery.

"Hang around the beard shop long enough and somebody's going to start braiding."

Western Buserian is awesome. I think it lines up with the fragments I'm starting to see in Talsardia. Somebody also brings cattle to Pamaltela of course but now that you mention it I don't know for sure if herding survives down there the way it might in Masai country, for example. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

Western Buserian is awesome. I think it lines up with the fragments I'm starting to see in Talsardia. Somebody also brings cattle to Pamaltela of course but now that you mention it I don't know for sure if herding survives down there the way it might in Masai country, for example. 

Good question. The Doraddi have the "Milk Antelope", don't they? They might be the closest thing to cattle the Veldt has.

I guess it depends on whether we imagine cattle to be able to eat the Pamaltelan clover (iirc) that the Six-Legged Empire's horses couldn't digest.

EDIT: clover, not cloves. My English still has a lot of holes.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[Ali the Helering]

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I mean, as I was reading RQG last night the text observed the practical difference between the two was the number of worshippers.

Maybe the interaction between the monomyth and cultural myths is the growth of individual spirit cults into God-size chunks. (Well, and in the case of living demigods, their ascent to divinity, which is a separate step apparently involving some kind of very stressful heroquesting.)

Wimps? I guess you'd disapprove of modern Koreans offering Starbucks coffee beans to the Pole Star now, then. (Yes, this is real.)

I strongly believe it to be head-binding; it's even illustrated somewhere - the Guide, maybe? The Alkothi might have done it to imitate the Shadzoring, but I think it was a Pelorian practice.

What you sacrifice doesn't matter half as much as why you sacrifice it. 

Evans-Pritchard on Nuer Religion notes how the Nuer will sacrifice a cucumber rather than the extravagant outlay of a cow! 

 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Maybe I'm dumb, but given his name and association with cattle-sacrifice, I've always associated Buserian (and the feminine Pelandan BusEnari, wich both seem to derive from the archaic Pelandan "Bus" ideogram, which means cattle) with western cultural influx rather than Pentan/eastern influx.

The Pelorian languages are all inter-related, and BusEnari and BusErian both appear on the Gods Wall (at least according to Plentonius' interpretation).

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Given the successive waves of Storm Cattle peoples (Tawars and their derived groups) that migrated up the Janube river basin from Fronela in the late Golden or early Storm Age, I'd assumed that this was the natural migration path of the cattle-sacrificing beared scholar guy as well.

I rather see a broad Downland migration of various pastoralist groups, including the Andam Horde and the Bisosae, from the south. Prior to the Nidan uprising, there was just a hill range acting as the watershed between Ralios and Fronela, easy to cross for the herds.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

We know that Bisos appears to have arrived in the same way, having become integrated into the Pelandan/Wendarian pantheon at some point (to the point of being given a native genealogy, much like Buserian would get in Dara Happa).

I would like to note that "Biso" and "Busi" may just be flections of the same stem, with Busi possibly the possessive/objective form, and Biso the active one.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It gives us a common hypothetical western origin of both Lhankor Mhy and Buserian, meaning that we could arguably say that they originate from the escaping Danmalastani (Malkioni) scholars (of which the Zzaburi are also bearded and tall(-hatted), of course) - I forget whether it's the Tadeniti or Kachasti/Kachisti who are hypothesized as the originators, but the speculative trajectory I see is something like this:
Fleeing Malkioni sorcerers -> Migratory Storm scholars -> Pelandan/Pelorian scholars.

Tadenit was the writing founder, Kachast the speaking one (the God of the Silver Feet, really).

I am willing to make Zzabur or at least the zzaburi the carriers of an alphabetic script into central Genertela. He certainly inherited the flensing knife of Tadenit.

Our real world Bronze Age had literacy only in the shape of hieroglyphs reduced to a syllabary, with the alphabetic script emerging from the illiterate era of the Bronze Age collapse. Along the Oslir River, we have three alphabetic scripts  Cat-scratchsin, do-scratching, and Dara Happan. Prior to the Dara Happan system we have Pelorian glyphs which appear to have evey characteristic of a syllabary. (From what we know about these three scripts, all of them include symbols for vowels, unlike the original semitic scripts, an adaptation which may have been made by the Greeks or the Lesbos folk (from whom the Etruscans appear to have descended).

 

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

You could also argue that star-lore only really becomes useful AFTER Umath wrecks the sky, since prior to that, the Sky was so utterly regular and predictable that no one really needed to specialize in order to learn it.

Basically, Zator, the sorcerer of the Planetary Sons, becomes unseen (Invisible) and makes the stars emerge. Prior to this, all the celestial folk were obscured by the Sun Dome.

Zator and Zzabur don't really have the same linguistic source, but one could still be a different people's misunderstood loan word for the other.

Prior to Zator releasing the stars from imprisonment behind the Sun Dome, there were no stars visible in the sky, although possibly Nestentos already was on the rise.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This could be used to explain why stargazers did not become specialized until after Storm bull people became a thing. Besides, during Yelm/Murharzam's heyday, you could probably just fly up to the stars to talk with them rather than having to gaze at them from towers anyway.

You'd have to pass from Raibanth's Footstool up to Yuthubars, and then exit beyond the Sky Dome, or alternatively enter Senthoros to look through it.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

And lastly, before Storm/Cattle people became a thing, you would probably not sacrifice cattle, but stuff like birds and people ("sacrifice" being a very different thing in an existence that lacked actual Death).

Sacrifice can be the dedication of a (reusable) item to the ritual activity, removing it temporarily from the available tools. In the time of the painters, the taking of the food from the slain prey would allow the painters to dedicate some of the stuff taken to the higher powers they were aware of.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

If looking at origins within Time, then Pent was empty during the Gray Age (aside from trolls, Hsunchen and Aldryami, if I recall correctly). Contrary to the ReAscent's polemics, Peloria was not invaded by horse nomads - the horse nomads originated in Peloria, as they were refugees from Dara Happa during the Ice Age, who used the newly introduced horse to survive outside the Dome. To me, that seems to make an "introduction" of Buserian "from" the Jenarong to the Pelorians a little absurd. The Jenarong ruled at Dawn, as native Pelorians. Then they got kicked out by the revitalized urbanists, to their land of exile, Pent, where they have stayed mostly since.

Yes, the "Pentans" really appear to be Nivorah exiles in Zarkos. (The Arcos btw. appears the only of the three rivers of Peloria who entered the land uphill, unlike the Porals or Oslira.) The Starlight Wanderers were pedestrians or at best charioteers.

The Pillar of Truth appears to be a feature of Senthoros, the far eastern or eastern above city of Zaytenaras, one of the ten planetary sons who is cognate of Dayzatar as planet. Zaytenaras also bears the Truth rue, unlike Zator/Buserian.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Anyway, sorry if I misunderstood things. We're in pretty esoteric areas now, and I've been known to get things mixed up.

Also, deepest apologies to OP for getting dragged into this maelstrom of nerdery.

I think this is entirely on topic - Lhankor Mhy is after all the nerd among the Orlanthi deities, and esoteric research is what his heroes do.

 

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

Western Buserian is awesome. I think it lines up with the fragments I'm starting to see in Talsardia. Somebody also brings cattle to Pamaltela of course but now that you mention it I don't know for sure if herding survives down there the way it might in Masai country, for example. 

Somaria (Esus) might be sufficiently west already. But yes, the introduction of cattle should have come with the arrival of the pastoralist hill barbarian ancestors (including the Bisosae). But then, according to the Guide Murharzarm's Empire (and the creation of the Dara Happan humans) occurred some time after Umath's birth. It also coincides with the arrival of the Oslir River from the south (as the continuation of the Sshorg/Aroka invasion of the land by the rivers).

The pastoralist Buserian would have been quite similar to the Praxian Waha.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Good question. The Doraddi have the "Milk Antelope", don't they? They might be the closest thing to cattle the Veldt has.

This lack of normal herd beasts was one reason why I speculated that the broos in the nargan needed some time of adaptation if they wanted to breed with anything other than their (quite dangerous) Doraddi foes.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I guess it depends on whether we imagine cattle to be able to eat those Pamaltelan cloves (iirc) that the Six-Legged Empire's horses couldn't digest.

Baraku's/Desero's horde suffered from the same herd famine that the Six-Legged Empire did - no typical grasses or grains thrive in the Veldt. The herd beasts there are really more like browsers than they are grazers.

 

[scott-martin]

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

But in the end, Buserian was the (ritual) butcher of Dara Happa when animal sacrifice and meat became part of the culture. This later gets overseen by the Enverinus burners of sacrifices . . . I am willing to make Zzabur or at least the zzaburi the carriers of an alphabetic script into central Genertela. He certainly inherited the flensing knife of Tadenit.

Hey, that's something!! (Forgive fudged composite quote . . . not letting me bring in text across pages.)

Starting to build a dangerous picture of prehistoric Frontem that might finally reveal where the Tadeniti went.

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Baraku's/Desero's horde suffered from the same herd famine that the Six-Legged Empire did - no typical grasses or grains thrive in the Veldt. The herd beasts there are really more like browsers than they are grazers.

It became an obsession today so I checked. The Guide has cattle in Jolar as well as Umathela. Conspiracy theories of garbled Pamaltelan records notwithstanding, it looks like some Doraddi managed to capture a few herds and the secret of sustaining them. Not sure how far they promulgated. This is good grist for differentiating what would otherwise be endless ahistorical savannah.

Edited August 25, 2019 by scott-martin

[scott-martin]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

EDIT: clover, not cloves. My English still has a lot of holes.

IMG now there still are stands of clove trees in a few of the river valleys and the sheer anesthetic blast when they all ripen at once can give an entire moiety instant visions. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Probably yet another Kresh plot.

[Sir_Godspeed]

First off, thanks for adding to my understanding @Joerg, I wasn't aware that the stars were stuck on the other side of the sky dome at some point (though I did know the entire skydome was luminous prior to Lorion getting up there, at least according to some sources). 

I also seem to lack some knowledge on this Zator. All I can find about him is that he was a planet that disappeared (around Umath's rebellion that claimed other planetary sons??), I wasn't aware he was the original sage of the Kingdom of Perfection (or whatever one would term that polity). Is this from ReAscent or somewhere else?
 

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Our real world Bronze Age had literacy only in the shape of hieroglyphs reduced to a syllabary, with the alphabetic script emerging from the illiterate era of the Bronze Age collapse. Along the Oslir River, we have three alphabetic scripts  Cat-scratchsin, do-scratching, and Dara Happan. Prior to the Dara Happan system we have Pelorian glyphs which appear to have evey characteristic of a syllabary. (From what we know about these three scripts, all of them include symbols for vowels, unlike the original semitic scripts, an adaptation which may have been made by the Greeks or the Lesbos folk (from whom the Etruscans appear to have descended).

The wiki terms a lot of the Pelandan roots we see "ideograms". I'm not sure if this is an innovation of the wiki, or if it's from the source texts (I don't recall ideogram being used in either ReAscent nor the Entekosias), but if they indeed are "ideograms" and not just "phonemes" or "roots" then that would imply that some form of writing system is in place. Perhaps some intermediate between cave painting and hieroplyphics, but certainly not alphabetical.

I suppose I'm a bit biased in thinking that some old Pelandan stuff as older than what we see in Dara Happa, if only because Pelandan words from the Entekosiad seem to have retained more archaic features (internally capitalized letters to signify ideogram changes, ie. "BusEnari" vs. Dara Happan "Busenari".) It's a profoundly tentative position, I admit.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

Hey, that's something!! (Forgive fudged composite quote . . . not letting me bring in text across pages.)

Starting to build a dangerous picture of prehistoric Frontem that might finally reveal where the Tadeniti went.

It became an obsession today so I checked. The Guide has cattle in Jolar as well as Umathela. Conspiracy theories of garbled Pamaltelan records notwithstanding, it looks like some Doraddi managed to capture a few herds and the secret of sustaining them. Not sure how far they promulgated. This is good grist for differentiating what would otherwise be endless ahistorical savannah.

Umathela I could've seen coming - since it's a different climate and geographically distinct, but Jolar surprises me.

Of course, in the RW, clover is quite nice for both cattle and horses (although maybe not as their entire staple, I have no idea), so Gloranthan clovers (or horses/cattle) have something going on to differentiate that. Or maybe some of that grass finally managed to take root - either naturally (seeds from ballast, f.ex.) or actively planted.

Who knows what is going on. Someone could even make up a heroquest that makes their flock of cattle able to digest pamaltelan flora, or something.

[Tindalos]

10 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The wiki terms a lot of the Pelandan roots we see "ideograms". I'm not sure if this is an innovation of the wiki, or if it's from the source texts (I don't recall ideogram being used in either ReAscent nor the Entekosias), but if they indeed are "ideograms" and not just "phonemes" or "roots" then that would imply that some form of writing system is in place. Perhaps some intermediate between cave painting and hieroplyphics, but certainly not alphabetical.

I suppose I'm a bit biased in thinking that some old Pelandan stuff as older than what we see in Dara Happa, if only because Pelandan words from the Entekosiad seem to have retained more archaic features (internally capitalized letters to signify ideogram changes, ie. "BusEnari" vs. Dara Happan "Busenari".) It's a profoundly tentative position, I admit.

Pelandan Ideograms get an entire section in the Entekosiad (page 79 in the red version)

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Pelandan Ideograms get an entire section in the Entekosiad (page 79 in the red version)

Ah, I see that now! So, the writing is verified, then, and according to the commentator "still" in use in temples. Good to know.

[Qizilbashwoman]

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Ah, I see that now! So, the writing is verified, then, and according to the commentator "still" in use in temples. Good to know.

it makes reading some names quite clear: for example Uleria is quite clearly "Blue Woman" when it's been seen as UlEria next to UlUrdA "Blue Moving Female"; both are associated with the Blue Planet.

The Entekosiad makes it clear the "current editor" had to go back and fix the original text because the Potter's Third Daughter just wrote everything in script (New Pelorian?), i.e. like "Uleria". It was only later that ideograms were realised to be sort of useful to the reader so they edited them back in for the "scholarly" version we have now.

Also, part of the reason Semitic scripts mostly only use vowels like matres lectionis is they aren't necessary, for real, Arabic readers aren't faking it.

And never underestimate syllabaries, for a lot of languages they encode sufficient information. Indo-European languages are really really dense with consonant clusters, and historically with intense endings and many cases, making it awkward for like ancient Greek, but even they used a syllabary - probably two separate ones - without hacking it too much. they just threw the minimum info necessary, somehow. (it's kind of a miracle to deceipher, it seems so laissez-faire, hahaha)

Edited August 26, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Sir_Godspeed]

Yes, I attempted learning Tamil, and although it's an abugida and not a true syllabary, it was close enough for me to get a certain feel of the logic behind it.

[Tindalos]

41 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

it makes reading some names quite clear: for example Uleria is quite clearly "Blue Woman" when it's been seen as UlEria next to UlUrdA "Blue Moving Female"; both are associated with the Blue Planet.

The Entekosiad makes it clear the "current editor" had to go back and fix the original text because the Potter's Third Daughter just wrote everything in script (New Pelorian?), i.e. like "Uleria". It was only later that ideograms were realised to be sort of useful to the reader so they edited them back in for the "scholarly" version we have now.

Also, part of the reason Semitic scripts mostly only use vowels like matres lectionis is they aren't necessary, for real, Arabic readers aren't faking it.

And never underestimate syllabaries, for a lot of languages they encode sufficient information. Indo-European languages are really really dense with consonant clusters, and historically with intense endings and many cases, making it awkward for like ancient Greek, but even they used a syllabary - probably two separate ones - without hacking it too much. they just threw the minimum info necessary, somehow. (it's kind of a miracle to deceipher, it seems so laissez-faire, hahaha)

And of course it can also be handy in working out dara happan words and intentions as well. Uleria can also help us with other words, such as Ulsed, meaning a wandering planet (Moving+Celestial body)

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, scott-martin said:

It became an obsession today so I checked. The Guide has cattle in Jolar as well as Umathela.

The mention for cattle in Jolar is an isolated mention on p.541, possibly a direct carry-over from the RQ3 short world description in the DeLuxe-Box or the Glorantha Bestiary that survived proof-reading.

Yes, Umathela does sustain cattle-herding. There are elands in Jolar and Tarien, tanuku (milk antelopes) everywhere south of the Fense mountains, and wildebeest in Jolar only. The latter may be confused with cattle, and follow migratory patterns between Jolar and Laskal, entering the area of the former Greenwood of Jolar. All of these beasts are mentioned for the Fiwan, and domestication of the tanuku is only mentioned in the culture description, not in the regional description.

 

The timing of the pastoralists that would become the Hill Barbarians is an issue. I'm aware that we are talking Godtime, and sequence is tricky, but when did these migrations start? What is the Dara Happan frame for the reigns of Daxdarius and Gartemirus?

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

39 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Daxdarius

This was the late Storm Age as far as I can tell.

The Dara Happans don't discuss these emperors in the Ascent; Gartemirus is apparently Garthum in the Unity List, but he's not in the GRoY. This would have been Urvairinus for Daxdarius, but the reigns are totally specious. He is given a lot of stories that belong to other people, and Nav Eria shows up in his reign for the first time (see below). No idea about Gartemirus.

The Daxdarian is the latest era discussed in the Entekosiad's discussion of prehistory that a Travel & Journeyer can reach; early Wendarian, late Wendarian, Orininian, then Daxdarian. It is associated with fine metal, the overthrow of the Jernotian High Gods Entekos Dendara, Turos and Jernotix for Jaga Natha and Daxdarius, the introduction of the cult of Nav Eria and its square brick architecture, the coinage of the terms "Pelandan" (for his city of Peldre) and "Naverian", and is before the Kazkurtum.

Daxdarius had the patronage of the Third Eye Blue, which I believe suggests it was late enough for them to have moved from their earlier settlement in Sechkaul, although not everyone buys that they are descended from Lopers. It certainly accords with the GRoY's assertion that this was the "time of Antirius", though: this is when Antirius the War God shone over Tolat, the "Zorak Zoran" of the Sky.

Of course, the Great Darkness followed right after, and Tolat was back in the spotlight...

Edited August 26, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Evans-Pritchard on Nuer Religion notes how the Nuer will sacrifice a cucumber rather than the extravagant outlay of a cow! 

In Small Gods, Terry Pratchett discusses why sausages and bacon are the best sacrifices to deities, mainly because they come from dead animals, have a pleasant smell that wafts up to the Divine Realms and the Priests can enjoy the cooked breakfast afterwards.

[soltakss]

On the subject of Lhankor Mhy and Buserian being the same entity, what about Buserian's Star lore? That seems to be a particular thing for the cult of Buserian, they are star-gazers and know an awful lot about Celestial Lore and Star Lore. Does this carry over to the Lhankor Mhy cult in general?

My feeling is that Buserian is an Aspect of Lhankor Mhy, the Aspect of Star Gazer, so Buserian Temples will have a lot more knowledge of Celestial/Stellar Lore than Lhankor Mhy temples in general.

[Ali the Helering]

16 minutes ago, soltakss said:

In Small Gods, Terry Pratchett discusses why sausages and bacon are the best sacrifices to deities, mainly because they come from dead animals, have a pleasant smell that wafts up to the Divine Realms and the Priests can enjoy the cooked breakfast afterwards.

Epic of Gilgamesh tablet 11

I sacrificed a lamb

The gods gathered around the altar like flies

 

This has always struck me as giving an interesting insight as to the Sumerian view of divinity🤢

[Sir_Godspeed]

30 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

Epic of Gilgamesh tablet 11

I sacrificed a lamb

The gods gathered around the altar like flies

 

This has always struck me as giving an interesting insight as to the Sumerian view of divinity🤢

Well, crud, I'm all out of reactions again. Suffice to say I was about drop a big fat laugh emoji for this. (And to be fair, Sumerians gods were pretty dickish).