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Lloyd Dupont

APP characteristic

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APP (Aka Appearance) is the least useful of all characteristics.

Anyone thought of some way to make it more useful?

Initially I thought of getting rid of persuade and the like, but obviously skill matters, so might not do it....

An idea just struck me, might use fast talk as an influence roll, followed by a save that would be APP vs Int/POW/SomeSkill or something...

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This is an area where BRP's generally solid simulationism cred breaks down (to be fair, most RPGs do no better, and many do worse).  Multiple studies have proven that APP has broad & pervasive impact, albeit sometimes subtle.

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Maybe it's APPeal and not APPearance?  That skews back in the direction of the widely mis-understood CHA, but doesn't have to be nailed down to an objective scale of physical beauty.

On 8/11/2019 at 6:25 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

An idea just struck me, might use fast talk as an influence roll, followed by a save that would be APP vs Int/POW/SomeSkill or something...

I like this.  Fast Talk has always struck me as a little too negative for some of it's potential uses.  I'm thinking of the skills from classic Traveller like Liaison and Carousing, which are the stuff and subtle nuance of interpersonal communication, and have cropped up in BRP as things like Persuade and Charm skills.

!i!

Edited by Ian Absentia
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On 8/12/2019 at 3:25 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

APP (Aka Appearance) is the least useful of all characteristics.

Anyone thought of some way to make it more useful?

You could import the Conflict rules from Revolution D100 for "social" challenges, which would drastically increase the importance of APP/CHA.

 

It is also an important characteristic for shamans, but if you don't use shamans in your game, of course it won't help you.

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On 8/11/2019 at 10:25 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

APP (Aka Appearance) is the least useful of all characteristics.

Anyone thought of some way to make it more useful?

 

You can use it as an Initial Reaction guide. Even with a succesful Fast Talk or Persuade roll, the NPC attitude and willingess may vary.

APP

3-5           Distrusted, fearful.
6-8           Doubtful, suspicious.
9-12        Neutral
13-15      Agreeable, nice
16-18     Attractive, trustful

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 6:13 PM, el_octogono said:

You can use it as an Initial Reaction guide. Even with a succesful Fast Talk or Persuade roll, the NPC attitude and willingess may vary.

APP

3-5           Distrusted, fearful.
6-8           Doubtful, suspicious.
9-12        Neutral
13-15      Agreeable, nice
16-18     Attractive, trustful

 

I had a table for APP, showing what it meant in the real world, but it was quickly deleted by the Admins. 

You could use APP as a modifier to the Reaction Roll, if the Reaction roll is still a thing, so anything below 10 makes things worse and anything above 10 makes it better. This uses the assumption that people react better to attractive people than ugly people.

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54 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I had a table for APP, showing what it meant in the real world, but it was quickly deleted by the Admins. 

😐 🤔 🤨

54 minutes ago, soltakss said:

This uses the assumption that people react better to attractive people than ugly people.

Granted, but not consistent cross-culturally, regionally, sub-culturally, etc.  I've always found APPearance problematic in play as a result, and have leaned into APPeal/CHArisma.  While it's more vague, that vagueness has allowed more flexibility.  And I still generally don't use it.

!i!

 

 

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Modern D100-games like MYTHRAS abandoned the concept of CHA as APP and uncoupled charisma and beauty.
This approach is more realistic, because there are so many people who are not very attractive but highly charismatic. And we all know very attractive people which are bland and dull (or just extremely shy).
 

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On 8/11/2019 at 9:25 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

Anyone thought of some way to make it more useful?

Yes, use RQ3 Category modifiers. 

In RQ3 APP not only affected the starting skill scores, but it also applied to improvement rolls. This meant that someone with a high APP not only started with a better fast talk/orate/etc. but also that they would tend to improve faster. 

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I just switched from Mythras to BRP but I was wondering whether to go tick mark on skill or XP for improvement rolls... I was edging toward xp and I guess it's one more reason to do it! :)

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44 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I just switched from Mythras to BRP but I was wondering whether to go tick mark on skill or XP for improvement rolls... I was edging toward xp and I guess it's one more reason to do it! :)

The XP in MYTHRAS have a bunch of effects and aren't only for improvement rolls. Therefore they can't be just replaced by tick marks.
It's very easy to integrate tick marks in MYTHRAS, though. Just let your players mark their used skills with ticks.

The XP-subsystem of MYTHRAS is more flexible as the ol' tick boxes and delegate decisions to common sense.

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