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What kind of Site do we want for BRP Central?

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59 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Music as punishment? That's unusually cruel, even for barbarian standards. (Although Iron Maiden might be preferable to country yodeling...)

 

Worked for Noriega... Country yodelling... hmm.

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Well, I'm only active here sporadically, but it's always seemed a friendly place and still does.  I think basic, adult rules of courtesy are more than reasonable.  I visit rpg.net even more sporadically, and yes I gather politics has become a divisive issue over there.  Unfortunately, we are living in polarized times, esp. in the USA.

But I haven't seen a lot of harsh words here, and don't expect to.  

PS - BGB is great and death to COC v.7!

(just kidding)

(not)

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3 hours ago, Aycorn said:

PS - BGB is great and death to COC v.7!

 

I'm sure an aficionado of the 2nd game mentioned  could think of things far, far, far worse than death (bwahahahahaha). 

Cheers

Edited by Bill the barbarian

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6 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I'm sure an aficionado of the 2nd game mentioned  could think of things far, far, far worse than death (bwahahahahaha). 

Cheers

We can still be friends ;)

 

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On 8/18/2019 at 2:15 PM, lordabdul said:

For those of us who don't necessarily spend a lot of time on many different forums, can someone elaborate on what they think TheRPGSite, RPG.net, and/or RPG Pub (or even, for that matter, ENWorld) are like? From my limited experience with a few of them, I frankly can't tell much, besides maybe that RPG.net is quite moderation heavy? I don't know. So yeah, RPG forums 101 would be welcome :)

RPG.net took a very hard turn into politics in the past two years. A lot of topics became political and dissenting views, or even simply disagreeing with moderators, became bannable. It had an effect like the old gaming forum NeoGAF did where even developers were getting banned if they said something the moderators didn't like. It's apparently only gotten worse over time.

I've never used TheRPGSite. Can't tell you much.

I like RPGPub. It's a lot of good-natured discussion particularly about older/more obscure games. They took a strong stance against politicization around the time it was overtaking RPG.net, so in a similar vein to forums like BRP or YSG it avoids those topics. There's not a lot of interest in newer RPGs though, and most people don't seem to be fans of the new Call of Cthulhu for some reason. I'd guess it's because of the aforementioned interest and experience in much older games or editions of games.

Edited by TheEnclave
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1 hour ago, TheEnclave said:

RPG.net took a very hard turn into politics in the past two years. A lot of topics became political and dissenting views, or even simply disagreeing with moderators, became bannable.

O man it was like that a decade ago, it's why I stopped posting there

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I'm still active on RPGnet; I will try to explain them.  It's a largely favorable "review:"  They are taking the position that same-old-same-old isn't working, that being silent on "broken stair" issues is complicit, that the gaming industry -- and fandom -- allowing things to slide is very-similarly-complicit.

I find myself in agreement with that POV; things are getting worse, and I think it's (at least in part) because people are allowing really vile hatespeech under cover of "free speech," and they are being silent when they should be speaking up.  Hence, my favorable review.  (I expect I've already lost more than a few readers; it's long-ish, so I expect to lose a few more).

Please note:  I have been banned there (temp bans) for telling people "how RPGnet is" because I am not a Mod there:  this is explicitly MY understanding of them, not their expression.  I link below to some of their threads and rules, if you're inclined to read them in their own words (in fact, I encourage it).

===

They have had (since-almost-forever, afaik) a "no personal attacks" policy, and a "no group-attacks" policy (on the theory that any given group might have members on-site), including "no PA's against devs/authors/publishers" because they TOO may be on the site.

These policies have a specific exclusion:  except Nazi's (and by extension, Nazi-adjacent alt-right & other hate groups).

Relatively recently, (the past few years) RPGnet began trending more and more toward liberal politics & toward inclusion, specially including "marginalized communities."  They have close to zero tolerance for "the other side."  Racism, sexism, etc are explicitly bannable.  Their basic position seems to be, "that shit gets allowed other places, and makes those marginalized gamers feel unsafe/unwelcome; we'd rather exclude the bigots, so the marginalized can feel safe:  recognizable bigotry gets banned."

They are... not impressed... if you toss around terms like "SJW" and "special snowflake" &c.  They explicitly reject lots of language (that passes muster other places) as alt-right / racist / etc invasions of legitimate, principled conservatism.  You have a right to speak that way at your own gaming table, but not on their site.

===

The full set of RPGnet rules are here:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/rpg-net-rules-guidelines-revised-10-28-2018.835825/

===

Mostly what (seems to me, from my non-Mod perspective (e-mail/PM/etc (that only the mods see) may tell a different story)) gets other folks REALLY riled up is when RPGnet bans on whataboutism, on people making MRA/etc arguments against "MeToo / believe the women," and the like.  Popper's "Paradox of Tolerance" is popular; people making "Free Speech" claims get shut down HARD.

They have banned their own mods when credible allegations of sexual abuse occurred; they have reversed their own ban's, and issued public apologies, when prior "non-credible" allegations gained more credibility.

===

The dam really broke open (aka the Mods went ballistic) when the pictures of children in dog-runs "temporary holding facilities" hit the news in mid-2018:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-rpgnet-policy-regarding-ice-fuck-ice.830117/

Quote

After consultation between the staff, we've realized a strong majority of us are no longer willing to mod group attacks against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). This is not an open license for revenge porn or personal attacks on specific posters or the like, but we aren't going to pretend any more that they're within the bounds of civility, or that they deserve to be treated as if they were

...

In conclusion: If you support ICE at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.

Not too long after that, they made "blanket support" for Donald Trump & the Trump administration also bannable:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-in-support-of-trump-or-his-administration.835849/

Quote

... because his public comments, policies, and the makeup of his administration are so wholly incompatible with our values that formal political neutrality is not tenable. We can be welcoming to (for example) persons of every ethnicity who want to talk about games, or we can allow support for open white supremacy. Not both. 

(it's a l-o-n-g thread, but the first page or two may be worth a read...)

N.B. other specific policies, e.g. "I like what Trump's doing on the trade war" or "Fed lowering the Prime" or "climate denial" or etc etc etc are NOT banning offenses...  Supporting the "Muslim Ban" is bannable, but immigration discussion (even "stronger borders" (though not if it's a code for family separation/etc)) is not specifically bannable (but expect a mod to ask pointed questions about what you ARE supporting, because just "stronger borders" is encoded some places as a nationalist/racist dogwhistle).

But any blanket endorsement of DJT (or his administration) is now held to explicitly include support of gross human rights violations, sexism, racism, etc... and hence bannable (and as you'd expect, voices speaking up on RPGnet in support of those other policies are slight-to-none).

They are not open to discussion on this issue, or any version of "keep your politics out of my gaming."

By extension, support for ANY racist/nationalist world leaders, including praising their policies, including those that are now part of the history books (like Adolf Hitler, or Mao) also gets a good hard look, and often a ban.

===

They got a HUGE signal-boost when knitting site "ravelry.com" (IIRC 7 million users) more-or-less adopted the RPGnet rules, 

And THAT got picked up on big news sites like NYT, USAToday, Time.com, The Federalist, The Guardian, etc...

https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump

Of course, Ravelry then got Troll-brigaded (and RPGnet got another spate of it too).


===

So, if that's "too political," avoid RPGnet at all costs!

(Amusingly, RPGnet got a bunch of angry hatemail demanding the knitting-patterns the complainers had ordered, and to close their Ravelry account.  And Ravelry got hatemail about "playing dress-up Elves with fake swords.") 

 

Edit:  But don't take this to mean it's your fantasy trash-the-Right gaming venue, if you're looking for that.  First and foremost, it's a gaming site, and even liberal/progressives get banned if they're so strident they stop folks from enjoying their gaming-chat.

Edited by g33k
OTOH
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59 minutes ago, TheEnclave said:

I mean yeah, it really is, as is your entire post.

Not trying to say what THIS site should be.

Trying to show (since the question was raised) where that site sits.

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I've given up my accounts at several fora, either for reasons of tribalism or because the mod culture fosters the presence of who like to stir up trouble. Naturally, it would be nice if BRP Central didn't also go this route. So far so good.

 

Edited by Thalaba
Simplified and removed mention of other fora.

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1 hour ago, g33k said:

Not trying to say what THIS site should be.

Trying to show (since the question was raised) where that site sits.

Right, but you went from describing RPGnet into making broad political statements. I may be misunderstanding you, but it comes off as if you're giving what they do a pass because their politics are your politics, in which case that should be made clearer. Besides that, there shouldn't be political discussions in this topic to begin with I think. If someone wants politics with their RPG talk that's fine, but I wouldn't describe it then in the way your post worded it of "RPG.net isn't actually that political, I'll explain why," followed by lengthy details of how it's very much political, far and away above the majority of game sites.

Edited by TheEnclave
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Alas. g33k, I must say I am confused which is extraordinary for me 'cause you always make good sense ( I have said a few times I wish for your clarity). Perhaps you should take a quick boo at your note. Perhaps there is a clarity error you can find and correct. Again I say that I usually understand your point on first reading which again is pretty special so I gave the post a pass when I first read it (you know, better to think about it and post later), and then figured I should ask about it as I still don’t really understand your point. For/against being lost of the confusion and as TheEnclave says the political/non-political points as well (damn, that’s about everything, sorry man!).

Cheers

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Gang - I don't want this descending into broadly discussions of politics, other websites and forums, etc. This is about who BRP Central should be - not what is wrong with other sites. And it isn't helpful for us to see litanies of complaints about other sites' policies (however cathartic that might be for you) - if the point is only "don't be like that." Keep it positive and focused on what we should be.

So please knock it off.

Jeff

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2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Gang - I don't want this descending into broadly discussions of politics, other websites and forums, etc. This is about who BRP Central should be - not what is wrong with other sites. And it isn't helpful for us to see litanies of complaints about other sites' policies (however cathartic that might be for you) - if the point is only "don't be like that." Keep it positive and focused on what we should be.

So please knock it off.

Jeff

As an aside, my main rule on moderation is "be excellent to each other."

And stay on topic. 

So that is what kind of site I want this to be. One where people are excellent to each other, and where they stay on topic. Is that too much to ask?

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8 hours ago, Jeff said:

As an aside, my main rule on moderation is "be excellent to each other."

And stay on topic. 

So that is what kind of site I want this to be. One where people are excellent to each other, and where they stay on topic. Is that too much to ask?

Define excellent?

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if that was too complicated:

  • leave a place better than you found it
  • ḥisbah: you enjoin what is right and forbid what is reprehensible (الأمر بالمَعْرُوف والنَهي عن المُنْكَر al-amr bi l-maʿrūf wan-nahy ʿan al-munkar)
  • "Humans are responsible for the world even if/though the gods are not." - the Velortinian Principle

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11 hours ago, Jeff said:

Gang - I don't want this descending into broadly discussions of politics, other websites and forums, etc.

Sorry that's kind of my fault -- people mentioned other websites and I was like "oh, what are those websites like?".

9 hours ago, Jeff said:

So that is what kind of site I want this to be. One where people are excellent to each other, and where they stay on topic. Is that too much to ask?

Have you ever been on the internet? :D    But yeah, in theory, it shouldn't be that hard.

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7 hours ago, midwinter said:

No, it wasn't complicated, just a pretty crappy movie to quote. Islam and Sharia isn't my thing either.

oh no, any possible thing that comes from Islam, no matter what it is, must be ThE sHaRiA

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22 minutes ago, Trifletraxor said:

Please leave politics and earthly religions at the door. ;)

respectfully, am I to suggest good behavior on the board based on Gloranthan mores only when "be excellent to each other" is rejected

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11 hours ago, midwinter said:

No, it wasn't complicated, just a pretty crappy movie to quote. Islam and Sharia isn't my thing either.

If you really can't figure out Be Excellent To Each Other, then I fear pretty much any ethical system around Treat Each Other Respectfully - be it Islam, Bill and Ted-ism, Zensunnism, or even Rokarism - is not going to work out for you. This forum really may not be a good fit for you - we expect folk to be able to behave like respectful adults here, regardless of their ideological or religious beliefs. Heck I'll even tolerate 49ers fans if they can follow these basic guidelines.

Jeff

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2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

respectfully, am I to suggest good behavior on the board based on Gloranthan mores only when "be excellent to each other" is rejected

My comment was not directed at you Qizilibashwoman, but the earlier Trump and Islam comments in this thread. 

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