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Manu

Make Chaos in the South Great again!!!

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In Pamaltela, the Chaos is far less present than in the North. No armies of Broos, scorpion men, Walktapuses, Gorps, ... (except in the far sourth)

Why aren't there no priests of Chaos (Thed, Malia, ... You name them) traveling south and starting to build temples, create broos, spread the Chaos there? Whty are they so attached to the place where they have a strong resistance (Storm bull, ZZ, Orlanth,...)?

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45 minutes ago, Manu said:

In Pamaltela, the Chaos is far less present than in the North. No armies of Broos, scorpion men, Walktapuses, Gorps, ... (except in the far sourth)

Why aren't there no priests of Chaos (Thed, Malia, ... You name them) traveling south and starting to build temples, create broos, spread the Chaos there? Whty are they so attached to the place where they have a strong resistance (Storm bull, ZZ, Orlanth,...)?

in fact, Chaos is far more prevalent:

Quote

[T]here’s really big Chaos brewing in the Nargan Desert, possibly the biggest Chaos place in Glorantha right now, unless you count the Lunars. So it’s huge, and they’re breeding Chaos and the rejects are what goes north. I think it might be a corrupt relic of the Six-Legged Empire from the Second Age, because they would be organized and they would have fled from the curses that destroyed their empire. I’m not sure exactly what is there. I know they have labs and breeding pens and stuff and they’re making bigger and bigger and better Chaos monsters. It’s also possible the Mother of Monsters, at least part of it, came from that source. - Forgotten Secrets of Glorantha

The Six-Legged Empire was the Dukedom of Kolar, a colonial possession of the Middle Sea Empire of the God Learners.

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2 hours ago, Manu said:

In Pamaltela, the Chaos is far less present than in the North. No armies of Broos, scorpion men, Walktapuses, Gorps, ... (except in the far sourth)

Why aren't there no priests of Chaos (Thed, Malia, ... You name them) traveling south and starting to build temples, create broos, spread the Chaos there? Whty are they so attached to the place where they have a strong resistance (Storm bull, ZZ, Orlanth,...)?

Psst, you are trespassing on the secret plans of the miasmic hordes here!

Back in 2000, Greg distributed a metaplot for the Hero Wars to prospective authors and content checkers. This had a really big and comparatively coordinated multi-pronged plan that had been started to be put in action. Multiple demigod-level agents of a new god would further the causes and lay the groundwork, with some initial efforts like the Kingdom of War and the Blood Sun to draw attention away from later plans.

At its simplest it could be said to have shifted Chaos forces around, so that the old, proven ancestral methods to deal with the local Chaos would fail abysmally as entirely new foes with completely different powers and weaknesses descend on the hapless defenders.

Broos and scorpionmen emerging from the Nargan Desert were part of this.

 

There is an obvious logistical problem in ferrying ordinary Chaos critters from central Genertela to Pamaltela - you don't want them on your ships, and they are too bright to be stuck into cages. Full on slave bracelets and manacles might be enough in combination with iron shackles, but if you have such a critter as your slave, why let it go rather than let it earn its keep in the arena?

Still, somehow the coordinators of the miasmic hordes have found means to populate their staging grounds for the upcoming Hero Wars with critters far outside of their normal ranges. There are broo gathering in the Nargan, and there are Pamaltelan monstrosities adapting to Karia.

Yes, the far south is seeing them. Fonritian Chaos repeats the sins of the Artmali in the late Greater Darkness, which suffered a defeat at the fiery spears of warriors of Pamalt, Balumbasta and Vangono, or were drowned by the seas and their denizens. Northeastern and central northern Pamaltela has lingering Antigods of Vithelan origin, like the Gorgers of Kimos, and have been fought by the geoglyphs of their Thinobutan human foes - possibly on a much larger scale north of Fonrit.

Broos thrive on herd beasts. There are rhino broo, but they are rather rare.  It might take some greater effort to breed shoveltusker broo.

Broo can propagate from human victims, of course. This produces rather classical goat-shaped broos. Why aren't there many in Fonrit? Possibly the magics of Ompalam or  Darleester don't work against these broos. Gark the Calm already offers a way more docile alternative.

Ogres may already be widespread.

And a form of Malia aready is an ally of the Pujaleg Empire (Forest of Disease).

Edited by Joerg
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Aren't there also mentions of massive Chaos-monsters traveling along specific routes in the Pamaltelan Veldt? These aren't your "planning to destroy the world" kind of Chaos monsters, I guess, but they are powerful enough to be equivalents of the Hydra in Dragon Pass, at least from how they're described in the Guide (I'm not sure if all of them are Chaotic, it's been a while).

And of course the Mother of Monsters who wander along the shores of - Onlaks, is it? - and gives birth to new monsters at regular intervals.

 

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12 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Aren't there also mentions of massive Chaos-monsters traveling along specific routes in the Pamaltelan Veldt? These aren't your "planning to destroy the world" kind of Chaos monsters, I guess, but they are powerful enough to be equivalents of the Hydra in Dragon Pass, at least from how they're described in the Guide (I'm not sure if all of them are Chaotic, it's been a while).

Too tired to check but I bet the info you are looking of is in Elder Secrets.

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I think vampires, Krarsht, and other corrupting subtle chaos gods have travelled and infiltrated Fonrit, and to a lesser extent Umathela, but not had much success beyond that. They are civilised foes.

There are plenty of chaos monsters on the plains, like Charnjibbers, and grue, but Vangono and other deities are used to fighting them (and it gives them an outlet for heroic deeds that don’t lead to war and civil strife, so strongly encouraged). But subtler chaos is more of a problem - a common source being succubi/incubi leading to the birth of ogre (and other monster) children who grow up to be wicked leaders and bandits. 

12 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Aren't there also mentions of massive Chaos-monsters traveling along specific routes in the Pamaltelan Veldt? These aren't your "planning to destroy the world" kind of Chaos monsters, I guess, but they are powerful enough to be equivalents of the Hydra in Dragon Pass

You are probably thinking of the various other Greater Hydrae, all of them around the size and power of the one in Dragon Pass, one unable to move but most roaming in a distinct territory. And they (again, apart from one, cursed by Nyanka) give birth the less hydrae, which are quite nasty themselves. 

Mallia is everywhere in Glorantha, though again less prevalent on the plains (certainly the relative lack of broo gangs is a factor). One of the greatest chaos nests and Malia centres of power if the Forest of Disease in Laskal. I think of this as mostly corrupted Aldryami, willing to use both Disease as a weapon against humanity that they hate, and plant diseases against other Aldryami (Disease as an enemy of Aldryami, and Pamalt, has a long history in Pamaltela, going back at least to the Sunstop), the Forrest of Disease May be that old or older. Plenty of corrupted gorakiki insects and such too. 

And then there are the deep grue pits, the remnants of Vadeli (or corrupted Artmali) ruins, Gary the Calm zombie strongholds, etc. 

and last but not least, the infamous suckerbunny tree, something that should definitely be revived! 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, davecake said:

Damn you autocorrect.

Gary was such a nice boy too - very calm and peaceful, never a word out of place.

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11 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Gary was such a nice boy too - very calm and peaceful, never a word out of place.

'Thwweeeet!'
 Alright jajagappa, put yer hands on yer heads and step away from that bad humour (that kinda strength of stuff is meant fer the perfessionals... like bill the barbarian!). 

 Y'all know that yer off topic by a country mile there boy. What does any of that hogwash have to do with making chaos in the south, great again. <spits>

That's one!

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On 8/23/2019 at 10:41 AM, Manu said:

In Pamaltela, the Chaos is far less present than in the North. No armies of Broos, scorpion men, Walktapuses, Gorps, ... (except in the far sourth)

Why aren't there no priests of Chaos (Thed, Malia, ... You name them) traveling south and starting to build temples, create broos, spread the Chaos there? Whty are they so attached to the place where they have a strong resistance (Storm bull, ZZ, Orlanth,...)?

The official answer is that Pamalt wasn't killed in God Time, so could keep Chaos out, by and large. Genert was killed and Chaos could make more incursions.

However, it always struck me as odd that Chaos seems to have attacked Genertela far more often than Pamaltela. Sure, Pamalt threw up some mountains to protect against the onslaught of Chaos, I think that Aurelion's Shield or maybe breakwater, was one of them in northern Pamaltela.

Maybe it's because the Unholy Trinity were based in Genertela, Ragnaglar being Orlaanth's brother and Thed being Ragnaglar's wife. Mallia doesn't seem to be linked to Genertela in any way, though. Wakboth the Devil seems to have fought most of his battles against Genertela or against the Spike and the lands surrounding it.

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IIRC Sandy suggested that Pamaltela has more one-off monsters and less chaotic races. So it has the Mother of Monsters, not hordes of broo. Perhaps think about it like this. In most mythology when heroes fight monsters, they live in a known location, there at most a handful of them, and they are powerful enough to dispatch ordinary folks and barely break into a sweat. That is more the nature of chaos in Pamaltela than hordes of broo.

As Joerg points out, there was a 'geat chaos swap' envisaged at some point. No idea if that is still a plan.

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5 hours ago, Ian Cooper said:

IIRC Sandy suggested that Pamaltela has more one-off monsters and less chaotic races. So it has the Mother of Monsters, not hordes of broo. Perhaps think about it like this. In most mythology when heroes fight monsters, they live in a known location, there at most a handful of them, and they are powerful enough to dispatch ordinary folks and barely break into a sweat. That is more the nature of chaos in Pamaltela than hordes of broo.

As Joerg points out, there was a 'geat chaos swap' envisaged at some point. No idea if that is still a plan.

That fits with the Doraddi mentality as well - where individual contests of strength and skill - including outright duels - are their preferred method of warfare ("Hero's War"), as opposed to massed armies engaging in large field battles ("Ancient Warfare"), which is seen as primitive and self-destructive.

This single-hero/duel outlook fits better with a terrain where the main threats are solitary giant monsters as opposed to raiding parties of broos and scorpionmen or the like.

Of course, there are nuances to this - Orlanthi have a bit of both, for example.

(All this being said, the Guide does give us the impression that Pamalt's Veldt is probably one of the most comfortable, friendly, and most peaceful places in Glorantha - at least so far).

Edited by Sir_Godspeed

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I suspect some of this also gets to the worship of Chaos gods in Fonrit etc. With no hordes of chaos creatures spilling from nests, and no strong mythic history of chaos blasting the landscape the cultural hatred of chaos is just not so ingrained in the south.

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6 minutes ago, Ian Cooper said:

I suspect some of this also gets to the worship of Chaos gods in Fonrit etc. With no hordes of chaos creatures spilling from nests, and no strong mythic history of chaos blasting the landscape the cultural hatred of chaos is just not so ingrained in the south.

The Doraddi seem to hate Chaos though (inasmuch as they hate anything, like jungle) - and when comparing with Peloria's relative lack of focus on Chaos as an existential enemy despite being in central Genertela, it seems like there is more at play.

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On 8/23/2019 at 2:14 PM, Joerg said:

Back in 2000, Greg distributed a metaplot for the Hero Wars to prospective authors and content checkers. This had a really big and comparatively coordinated multi-pronged plan that had been started to be put in action. Multiple demigod-level agents of a new god would further the causes and lay the groundwork, with some initial efforts like the Kingdom of War and the Blood Sun to draw attention away from later plans.

Is there any way (I don't mean you personally) that this could be made available in some way?

It seems like a crucial document, and it's not like large swathes of the HeroWars aren't already spoiled for us anyway. 

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On 8/26/2019 at 7:51 PM, Ian Cooper said:

With no hordes of chaos creatures spilling from nests,

There are some big chaos nests in Pamaltela. The Forest of Disease in Laskal. The Alkali Lakes in Zamokil. 

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On 8/26/2019 at 5:20 AM, Akhôrahil said:

Is there any way (I don't mean you personally) that this could be made available in some way?

It seems like a crucial document, and it's not like large swathes of the HeroWars aren't already spoiled for us anyway. 

Of course, that document may have been heavily revised since... or even completely superceded...

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