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smiorgan

Is Mythic Iceland still part of the plan?

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I am particularly fond of the BRP Mythic Iceland setting book. It is brilliant and deep. It's free form rune-based magic system is a thing of beauty.

 I was particularly excited to learn that a second edition was being worked on and even more happy that it was to be part of the RuneQuest line. Many of the approaches and play-styles developed for Glorantha can be ported to Viking Age Scandinavia (or vice versa), as shown by the community based campaign style proposed in the classic Vikings boxed set for RQ3, which bizarrely pre-dates (in terms of publication) similarly structured Orlanthi campaigns for RQ3 (Dorastor) or Hero Wars/Quest.

So, I was excited to see Mythic Iceland getting the RQG treatment - with passions, family history, etc -- and to see a worthy successor of RQ Vikings, with supplements covering the world of the sagas beyond Iceland.

But a long time has passed without news. I'd like to know whether it is still part of the plan or has been canceled.   

 

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On 8/27/2019 at 6:19 AM, smiorgan said:

Just to refresh memory: that was the state of things in 2016.

https://www.chaosium.com/blog/mythic-iceland-2nd-edition-manuscript-completed/

 

Between both of us asking... and the crickets that I hear now... I'm going to say something happened and its not happening. What about you? 😕

Perhaps we need an actual Summoning to get them to look at this forum. 

Ickity Ackity oop! Oh oh squeak! Ah ah pffft! @MOB

SDLeary

Edited by SDLeary
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5 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Between both of us asking... and the crickets that I hear now... I'm going to say something happened and its not happening. What about you? 😕

Perhaps we need an actual Summoning to get them to look at this forum. 

Ickity Ackity oop! Oh oh squeak! Ah ah pffft! @MOB

SDLeary

We have a finished manuscript. But we need to get the next round of RQG books out before we can try to polish up the first book of a new line. I think you all should be able appreciate that.

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6 hours ago, Jeff said:

We have a finished manuscript. But we need to get the next round of RQG books out before we can try to polish up the first book of a new line. I think you all should be able appreciate that.

That's good to hear. I do understand that you are in the middle of a big effort with RQG. To be clear: I fully and unreservedly support that. I LOVE what has come out for RQG and I look forward to the next round of books with anticipation.

Still, I'm glad to hear Mythic Iceland is still somewhere in the pipeline. 

 

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21 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Be very careful of a fumble, you might end up with a drunk Australian rugby player...

Hmmm... didn't fumble... but I did end up with a Jeff rather than a MOB.

16 hours ago, Jeff said:

We have a finished manuscript. But we need to get the next round of RQG books out before we can try to polish up the first book of a new line. I think you all should be able appreciate that.

Like Simorgan I understand the effort being put into RQ:G, and love it even if my pocket book doesn't. And I'm also glad that its still in the "pipeline", but three years is a bit long to sit on a manuscript after announcing that it had already gone to editing and art.

SDLeary

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Glad to hear its on the radar. I just finished my first CoC 7th campaign and I'm doing Mythic Iceland next so I took CoC 7th + some stuff from through the ages, old mythic iceland, and mrq2 vikings (just because thats what I have) and mashed it together added my own flair. 25 pages later I found I didnt like any of the character sheets so I made this one.

Mythic-Iceland-CharacterSheet.pdf

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9 hours ago, pipe2null said:

Glad to hear its on the radar. I just finished my first CoC 7th campaign and I'm doing Mythic Iceland next so I took CoC 7th + some stuff from through the ages, old mythic iceland, and mrq2 vikings (just because thats what I have) and mashed it together added my own flair. 25 pages later I found I didnt like any of the character sheets so I made this one.

Mythic-Iceland-CharacterSheet.pdf 511.82 kB · 6 downloads

That looks handy! You might consider uploading to the downloads section so people not on this thread will see it!

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Looks good.

On 10/24/2019 at 6:10 AM, pipe2null said:

Yeah maybe when I have a final product with original art. Assuming I can convince one of my artist gamer friends to draw up something awesome.

It looks great as it is.

You don't need art on a Character sheet.

In case nobody heard ...

YOU DON'T NEED ART ON A CHARACTER SHEET.

Just in case nobody heard ...

YOU DON'T NEED ART ON A CHARACTER SHEET.

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I disagree pretty strongly. The art on the sheet should invoke tone and mood. The character sheet is the single most important part of RPG design IMHO and often ignored. If you can get 80% of the rules on couple page character sheet and invoke mood of the game, you just won because that sheet is whats going to get looked at a whole lot more than the book. You might not need a ton of art but Shadow of the Demon Lord and the old gate look of Vampire the Masquerade are great examples where the sheet explains the tone and mood through some simple art.

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18 hours ago, pipe2null said:

The character sheet is the single most important part of RPG design IMHO

No, it's not. A character sheet is just a record of some of the key stats tracked by the game. That's all. Thinking that it is the most important part of RPG design is like saying your tax form is the most important part of your income.

If the character sheet were the most important part of thew design of an RPG then:

  • D&D and the other early RPGs would have failed, as they originally didn't have a character sheet at all. People just used blank paper. Even when official characters became a thing, they were pretty bland. Thery just tracked the name of the player, name of the character, and all that game data thay people actually use during the game.
  • Game experience and compatibility would change depending on what sort of character sheet a player ops for, and custom character sheets wouldn't be compatible with the core rules, and older sheets wouldn't work with newer editions of the rules.
  • RPG companies would spend much more time focused on "most important" character sheet as opposed to the "less important" stuff like the game system, setting, and adventures.
  • Characters in the past would have eliminated stats such as ability ratings, hit points, and equipment for the art.
  • RPGs would use the arts character sheet for the cover, as obviously the single most important part of design would be a major selling point. The cover and cover art exists to sell the book. 

Can you provide an example of where the characters sheet improved an actual game so  much as to be a major factor in how the game played? I know I can come up with multiple examples of where it hasn't. In my current campaign I have a player who has a character written up on a sheet of blank paper because we were out of character sheets at the time. While he now has a another character sheet to put the character on, he hasn't bothered to do so, and it hasn't changed the game in any significant way -and that's in Pendragon, an RPG where art, in the form of a character's coat of arms, is of some importance to the game, as it is part of a character's identity. So it is probably the RPG where the art is as important to game play as it gets.

So as soltakss has noted repeatedly, "You don't need art on a character sheet." You might wan't art or like to have art, but you don't need art.

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It's nice to have a picture of your character. But the more detailed and elaborate the picture the more likely your character will die horribly during the session you complete it.

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On 11/5/2019 at 8:20 AM, Atgxtg said:

No, it's not. A character sheet is just a record of some of the key stats tracked by the game. That's all. Thinking that it is the most important part of RPG design is like saying your tax form is the most important part of your income.

If the character sheet were the most important part of thew design of an RPG then:

  • D&D and the other early RPGs would have failed, as they originally didn't have a character sheet at all. People just used blank paper. Even when official characters became a thing, they were pretty bland. Thery just tracked the name of the player, name of the character, and all that game data thay people actually use during the game.
  • Game experience and compatibility would change depending on what sort of character sheet a player ops for, and custom character sheets wouldn't be compatible with the core rules, and older sheets wouldn't work with newer editions of the rules.
  • RPG companies would spend much more time focused on "most important" character sheet as opposed to the "less important" stuff like the game system, setting, and adventures.
  • Characters in the past would have eliminated stats such as ability ratings, hit points, and equipment for the art.
  • RPGs would use the arts character sheet for the cover, as obviously the single most important part of design would be a major selling point. The cover and cover art exists to sell the book. 

Can you provide an example of where the characters sheet improved an actual game so  much as to be a major factor in how the game played? I know I can come up with multiple examples of where it hasn't. In my current campaign I have a player who has a character written up on a sheet of blank paper because we were out of character sheets at the time. While he now has a another character sheet to put the character on, he hasn't bothered to do so, and it hasn't changed the game in any significant way -and that's in Pendragon, an RPG where art, in the form of a character's coat of arms, is of some importance to the game, as it is part of a character's identity. So it is probably the RPG where the art is as important to game play as it gets.

So as soltakss has noted repeatedly, "You don't need art on a character sheet." You might wan't art or like to have art, but you don't need art.

You missed the point, how many hours do you look at the book? how many hours do you want to be looking at the book?  how many hours do you look at the character sheet? The character sheet is your cheat sheet for the game while you dont actually need rules or a character sheet to play an RPG the character sheet gets the most use.

Can you provide an example of where the characters sheet improved an actual game so  much as to be a major factor in how the game played?

Vampire, Inspectors, any character sheet where the rules are on it. Even the Cthulhu one has some of the rules right there on the sheet. That means less time flipping in the book.
 

The art on the other had sets tone, again most white wolf games use a simplitic boarder to convey tone. Pendragon and Game of Thrones are also both good examples of tone setters. Some of the AD&D reboots set great tone. Its like playing by candle light or with props. They set tone.

 

Heres an example of a character sheet that sets no tone nor does it tell me much about the game, is it sci-fi, fantasy? what are the rules? im guessing % are used for hit location but thats about all i get.

http://www.mad-irishman.net/pubs/MI_MythusHPSheet.pdf

 

Now compare that to if Pendragon put most of the rules actually on their sheet and it was parchment with old style fonts. Which one helps set the tone better?

RPGs are a niche of a niche even when they are more popular than ever. A lot of that is people not wanting to read intimidating books in order to play. Its not like you just have to kick the ball in the net. The more intuitive you can make it the more people will come into the hobby. Of course its just an opinion and I am often wrong.

Edited by pipe2null
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32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

You missed the point, how many hours do you look at the book?

Quite a few, since I Gm a lot. It's important for the GM to undertand the rules. 

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

 how many hours do you want to be looking at the book? 

I didn't buy them for nothing. Now as far as referring to the book duing the game, I do try to keep that down to a minimum.

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

how many hours do you look at the character sheet? 

Not many. I just look up relevant vales as needed.

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

The character sheet is your cheat sheet for the game while you dont actually need rules or a character sheet to play an RPG the character sheet gets the most use.

No. Having or not having a character sheet doesn't change how often I have to refer to the rulebook. The character sheet just tracks the character stats. 

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

Can you provide an example of where the characters sheet improved an actual game so  much as to be a major factor in how the game played?

No I cannot. I can can come up with several examples of a poorly organized sheet slowing play down because the person who designed it didn't think that something important was actually important. 

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

Vampire, Inspectors, any character sheet where the rules are on it. Even the Cthulhu one has some of the rules right there on the sheet. That means less time flipping in the book.

Can you point out what rules are on those character sheets? 

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

The art on the other had sets tone, again most white wolf games use a simplitic boarder to convey tone. Pendragon and Game of Thrones are also both good examples of tone setters. Some of the AD&D reboots set great tone. Its like playing by candle light or with props. They set tone.

Eh, the shield does the rest is just legible text in a decent layout. Function trumps form.

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

 

Heres an example of a character sheet that sets no tone nor does it tell me much about the game, is it sci-fi, fantasy? what are the rules? im guessing % are used for hit location but thats about all i get.

http://www.mad-irishman.net/pubs/MI_MythusHPSheet.pdf

It's a character sheet. It is supposed to provide the relevant game stats in a clear and concise layout. That's it purpose. It's not supposed to be an ad for the game and tell you what the game is about. If you need a character sheet you already know all that.

 

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

Now compare that to if Pendragon put most of the rules actually on their sheet and it was parchment with old style fonts. Which one helps set the tone better?

There are no rules on the Pendragon character sheet. Just stats. Give a newbie a character sheet and they can't figure out one rule from it. 

32 minutes ago, pipe2null said:

RPGs are a niche of a niche even when they are more popular than ever. A lot of that is people not wanting to read intimidating books in order to play. Its not like you just have to kick the ball in the net. The more intuitive you can make it the more people will come into the hobby. 

I disagree. Dumbing the game down won't make the hobby better. There are quite a few very simple RPGs out there that take up a couple of pages and leave a lot to the GM. Those games don't draw lots of new people into the hobby. Then end up being diversions for people who already play. And if nobody wants to read the "intimidating" books so they can learn the rules, they certainly won't want to put the effort into writing actual adventures. That's work. 

There is no major RPG out there that someone can learn to play just by looking at the character sheet. Somebody has to read the rulebook. Yes if the game is based on or similar to another RGP that someone is familar with they might be able to use what they do know from another RPG to figure out the new sheet, but that isn't becuase the rules are on the sheet. For instance, anyone familiar with any BRP game can figure out some things from the sheet of any other BRP related game. But that isn't the same as the rules being on the sheet. 

I cannot think of one instance where someone's decision to play a game or not was influenced by a character sheet. Unless someone is familiar with the RPG being played, the numbers on it don't mean anything.  Seeing CON 15 on a character sheet doesn't mean anything unless you know what CON stands for, and what a 15 means. 

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Lets take Vampire specifically

Full names of attributes and skills are listed each with 5 bubbles. At the bottom of the sheet is Attributes: 7/5/3 • Abilities:13/9/5 • Disciplines:3 • Backgrounds:5 • Virtues:7 • Freebie Points:15 (7/5/2/1). Ok now im not exactly sure how i use those but seem like i use those in some way to build a character. This is one of the earlier forms of good sheet design but still has a bunch of stuff missing. I mean I dont know what Disciplines are or Background. The Virtues are marked and im unclear what the 7/5/2/1 signification is on freebie other than it adds up to 15. But i got a general idea about how it goes. Cthulhu likewise with the base % gives me a good indicator of some stuff but with 7th they kicked the design up a notch by having a quick reference to the rules on the back. I mean other than I dont know what these attributes mean and the funny tri boxes that its some kinda % system with levels of success (quick ref chart)  it even tells me i can push a roll for a reroll. There might be some skills like credit rating im not sure how that is used exactly and it doesnt tell me how to create a character at all but its fairly good. If ive played a few other RPGs i can probably look at it and go yeah i know how to play this game. I might not know the details of combat rules but I get most of it. I even know the setting thanks to the 1920s or 1890s etc box with the little bit of art. Look we disagree, thats ok, you can enjoy your game and Ill enjoy mine. 

 

and now you know someone who says pass when a character sheet sucks ;) I got tired of terrible games with pretty covers during the D20 era so now i flip to the character sheet first. 

 

Heh I finally found the sheet, helps if I spell it right page_1.jpg

From that I know how to build part (maybe most) of a character. I can tell it uses d6 dice pool with the highest or lowest die being the result.

Edited by pipe2null

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On 11/4/2019 at 9:48 PM, pipe2null said:

I disagree pretty strongly.

Ok, it's your Character sheet, so you should design it however you like.

My point is that a generic Character Sheet with artwork becomes trapped in that setting. If I have a Mythic Iceland Character Sheet that had runes and whatnot on, then I couldn't easily use it for a Byzantine Sorcerer or a Moor Pirate, both of whom could appear in a Mythic Iceland game.

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On 11/7/2019 at 4:20 AM, Bill the barbarian said:
On 10/25/2019 at 8:55 PM, soltakss said:

It looks great as it is.

 

Sorry, didn't quite catch that.

It looks great as it is.

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I think people are being unfair to pipe2null.

Art on character sheets, as well as character sheet design in general, is very individual.

I might design a workable character sheet that many people would hate. Similarly, I could see a beautiful character sheet that I would hate.

The trick is to get many different versions, so you find one you like, or design one that you like and can use.

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I ve bought the Mythic Iceland book this summer and loved it. I ve run the COC scenario found in the book (updated by myself with 7th stats/rules) and Ive used it to make my own homebrew scenario. Will be using the book some more since its full of ideas that fit perfectly with cthulhu :D

Edited by fiolthekeeper
grammar

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