Entekosiad and the Five Goddesses

[Sir_Godspeed]

24 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

except we know a significant portion of it is in fact patternable. it's just the monomyth with local names replacing the monomyth names afterwards. not all of it is neat - it's messy and trails off and isn't linear - but it is, in fact, not a random collection. it is in fact the monomyth.

More like monomyth-adjacent, (in my opinion, anyway).

Even Heortling and Esrolian mythologies have stuff in them that contradicts the Monomyth, and they even contradict themselves, respectively.

I never assumed the Entekosiad was random, just that it represented a fairly different way of looking at the genesis of Glorantha, presented in the form of highly experimental knowledge-seeking.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[scott-martin]

29 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I never assumed the Entekosiad was random, just that it represented a fairly different way of looking at the genesis of Glorantha, presented in the form of highly experimental knowledge-seeking.

Valare definitely had a very specific spiritual agenda and we're lucky she collected so much additional data along the way. Heroquesters can apply that stuff to non-Lunar objectives.

For me these books are extremely valuable because they were never directly fed into the Jrusteli monomyth. Carmania was a closed door to the God Learners and the inner workings of Dara Happa seem to have been accessible only second hand, via whatever they were able to scrounge from post-Arkat sources. EWF got into the cities but that's a different thing . . . and even then, the western reaches remained aloof. What they feed is neither GL nor EWF but the Goddess.

Sure, Greg's compositional method was largely to use the familiar monomyth constructs and then fill in the brackets when something more local came to mind. But within the setting, it takes someone like a Valare to incorporate these local rites into a more cosmopolitan context. Otherwise they might have remained [Ernalda] and [Uleria] forever and we would never have been the wiser.

[davecake]

I'd love to see one that WIP text with the original God-Learner names in place. But I'd also not take it as being 100% correct - our understanding of the Earth goddesses etc has changed a lot. A lot of them might be now regarded not as deities but as aspects of deity, the way Orane, Kev, etc are now regarded as aspects of Ernalda. 

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

3 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Esus

Esus is the mother of Bisos and Kereus with Kev Tavar. I know you've said the Guide once said she was even said to be Ernalda, but let's look at what evidence we have in the E,

I've struggled a little bit with the identity of Bisos as having another mask in our Praxian friend Waha. Now there's two sons, and honestly I'm not sure about Kereus. Maybe Waha is another son, who knows. But in general, if Kev Tavar is Storm Bull - the Tawari being 'Of the Bull' - then this makes sense, and Esus as Eirithia, daughter of Alk-Ernalda, makes sense, thus oddly reinforcing the identity of Alk as Ernalda.

I feel medium secure about that for the moment.

I'm still not anywhere with Benbeng/Jena Benben and her six daughters; I've floated a few ideas but none really stick.

And we still have two straight-up Ernaldas in the sequence, which seems like a lot of Ernaldas. Is there some other identity who could be mother of the moon phases, Karanda-Fa Elsor, called Dendara?

[Tindalos]

13 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

And we still have two straight-up Ernaldas in the sequence, which seems like a lot of Ernaldas. Is there some other identity who could be mother of the moon phases, Karanda-Fa Elsor, called Dendara?

Yes, but it will probably be even more annoying.

Entekos is also known as the Mother of Moons (GtG 674)

Of course, Addi could be the name of Glorantha herself, who is shown (GtG 113) as bearing a staff, and was leader of the Cosmic Court.

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 minute ago, Tindalos said:

Yes, but it will probably be even more annoying.

Entekos is also known as the Mother of Moons (GtG 674)

Of course, Addi could be the name of Glorantha herself, who is shown (GtG 113) as bearing a staff, and was leader of the Cosmic Court.

yep, it's annoying, but it's got cites.

addi might represent glorantha, but glorantha is the wholeness from whence all things descended. i think the staff is power and also phallic.

a lot of the imagery appearing later in Turos is straight lifted off of Addi! it's hilarious. you've read about the ancient goddesses and now this dude is coming along with his phallic imagery and it's like he's using her strap-ons to pad his jeans.

[davecake]

I've always thought of Addi mostly as representing something like the power of human collective action, its main symbolism is the tool of the council leader. So I feel identifying her with Glorantha herself is a bit too far. 

[Qizilbashwoman]

8 hours ago, davecake said:

I've always thought of Addi mostly as representing something like the power of human collective action, its main symbolism is the tool of the council leader. So I feel identifying her with Glorantha herself is a bit too far. 

I definitely feel like the Ded Addi gods (one of her daughters, one of the Turoses) are the kind of equivalent of the W-rune: they are like a wyter, they embody authority, but not a permanent hierarchy. Addi and the early Pelorian ways always represent councils rather than kings, tyrants or other rulers; authority is temporary. Turos is no usurper; he too is responsive to human structures in his many forms, unlike Brightface and his brothers, and he has many names as council god of local settlements later on.

When Brightface overthrows this system, the relationship between gods and humans changes.

Remember the E says, "I also asked about Ket Enari, whose name must mean 'city mother' and is a popular title for gods throughout Peloria. I was told that she was not a real feder but a later addition. No cities existed in Provarian and Wendarian times." Ket Enari is not the name of a settlement/council god or wyter, but a real city god proper.

[Qizilbashwoman]

@Jeff

Real question: is the Groke(start) from the Moomins a version of Rashoran(a)?

Edited September 2, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Nevermet]

Yes.

[Sir_Godspeed]

On 9/2/2019 at 11:43 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

@Jeff

Real question: is the Groke(start) from the Moomins a version of Rashoran(a)?

I was going to say that's like a female version of Himile, but sadly that's not relevant for the thread.

EDIT: Also, please put this behind a spoiler tag next time, you have no idea how much the Groke traumatized me as a child! (and adult ) 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed