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Ochoa

Another question for the sages...

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14 minutes ago, Ochoa said:

What is the best source for details on the Battle of the Queens, apart from the Glorantha Sourcebook?

 

Possibly Dragon Pass; the board game might give some cool insight. I believe I saw someone, very recently, mentioning it and that it was a magic poor (or magic free, can’t recall) scenario in the game,

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23 minutes ago, Ochoa said:

What is the best source for details on the Battle of the Queens, apart from the Glorantha Sourcebook?

 

It sure is not the guide to Glorantha, Th only mention I find is on page 735 an follows.

Quote

 

ater that year, King Pharandros received command of the Lunar Provincial Army, and led them with the Tarsh army to conquer the disheartened Sartarites. Queen Kallyr gathered her allies and met the Lunars at Old Top, near where

the Creek meets the Upland Marsh. At the Battle of Queens, the Lunars were driven off, but at a high price. Queen Kallyr was killed; Queen Leika used the Black Spear to drive the enemy into the river where they drowned, which caused the Lunar attack to stop.

The Lunars retreated back to Alda-Chur. However, with Kallyr dead, it appeared that Sartar would once again disintegrate into its squabbling tribes and become another easy conquest for the Lunar Empire.

 

Taint much...

Listen find the wayback machine, can’t recall the URL,  but I usually access it at glorantha.com. Find Jane William’s wonderful Kallyr and Kheldon (I believe)  Page.

 

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38 minutes ago, Ochoa said:

What is the best source for details on the Battle of the Queens, apart from the Glorantha Sourcebook?

Page 138 of RQG is good too (though I can't remember what's shared in the Sourcebook). One of the Vasana's Saga passages.

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33 minutes ago, Ochoa said:

What is the best source for details on the Battle of the Queens, apart from the Glorantha Sourcebook?

There is no better canonical source. We will have to wait until the release of the Grand RuneQuest Campaign to know more, I guess.

In the mean time, you can see how the Battle of Queens played in Martin Laurie's magnificent Hero Wars/ HeroQuest Gwandor Saga's episode 55 here.

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637189830_kallyr-s-funeral-pyre-5-smallercopy.jpg.21f08c650dc6cc5e6dc972becfbfbeca.jpg

19 minutes ago, Crel said:

Page 138 of RQG is good too (though I can't remember what's shared in the Sourcebook). One of the Vasana's Saga passages.

Right, it does cover it quite well. A whole page vs those few sentences in the GtG. And of course the funeral pyre of Kallyr above says much too.

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Battle of the Queens is a major event in the RQ Campaign. Once that book is finished, you'll be able to participate in the battle yourself.

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And so begins my hacking the timeline to adapt to my players' progress. Right now they're three weeks game time from the battle (and already at Humakt's hill which is convenient). They know there will be a battle and can`t wait to join up. I guess I'll make this just a battle and not the BotQ, perhaps I'll just move the timeline up a year.

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6 minutes ago, Ochoa said:

And so begins my hacking the timeline to adapt to my players' progress. Right now they're three weeks game time from the battle (and already at Humakt's hill which is convenient). They know there will be a battle and can`t wait to join up. I guess I'll make this just a battle and not the BotQ, perhaps I'll just move the timeline up a year.

Well I am still play testing the scenario and the battle rules, but here are some notes that you might find useful.

(FIRE SEASON) BATTLE OF THE QUEENS– King Pharandros took command of the remaining imperial troops in the provinces, and led them with the Tarsh army to conquer the disheartened Sartarites. Near where the Creek enters the Upland Marsh, some 5,000 Lunar soldiers faced off against less than 4,000 Sartarites led by Kallyr Starbrow. The Sartarites held a good defensive position at the base of Old Top Hill.

A band of Lunar elite soldiers were teleported behind the commanders, and Queen Kallyr was killed in battle. But Queen Leika Black Spear of the Colymar drove the enemy opposite her warriors into the river where they drowned, which caused the Lunar attack to stop. 

The next day, Queen Leika harassed the survivors so much that they retired to Alda-Chur. King Pharandros, fearing the machinations of his rival Fazzur Wideread, quickly returned to Furthest with his most loyal officers and regiments.

The Sartarites, despite their victory, suffered heavy casualties. Prince Kallyr Starbrow was dead and would not return despite the prayers of the healers. King Ranulf of the Culbrea, Queen Ivartha of the Cinsina, and Queen Amalda of the Malani also fell in battle. The Colymar, as the most powerful tribe present, took possession of Kallyr’s body and brought her corpse back to Boldhome to be burned.

This battle was chosen to make it clear that certain battles are not true sandboxes. Like in Pendragon, there will be events taking place during them. Kallyr will die during this battle, although the adventurers can achieve great fame by trying to defend her. The Lunars will rout in Round 6 but the players can certainly make a name for themselves and impact the flow of the battle. 

Order of Battle

Lunars

Army Commander: King Pharandros 

Veterans Horse – 500 veteran cavalry

Landholders Horse – 500 regular cavalry

1st Furthest Foot – 1000 foot levy

2nd Furthest Foot – 1000 foot levy

Silver Shields – 1000 veteran foot 

Dalini Foot – 1000 regular foot

Minor Class – 50 magicians

 

Sartar

Army Commander: Prince Kallyr

Cinsina – 600

Commander: Queen Ivartha

Cinsina Tribal Militia - 500

Cinsina Tribal Cavalry - 100

 

Colymar – 1250

Commander: Queen Leika

Colymar Tribal Militia - 800

Colymar Tribal Cavalry - 300 

Colymar Noble Cavalry - 130

Colymar Chariots - 20

 

Culbrea – 500

Commander: King Ranulf

Culbrea Tribal Militia

Culbrea Tribal Cavalry

 

Kheldon – 650

Commander: Prince Kallyr

Kheldon Tribal Militia - 500

Kheldon Tribal Cavalry - 130

Kheldon Chariots - 20

 

Malani -1000

Commander: Queen Amalda

Malani Tribal Militia - 750

Malani Tribal Cavalry - 150

Malani Noble Cavalry - 100

 

Random Enemy

1-4 1st Furthest Foot levy

5-8  2nd Furthest Foot levy

9-10  Silver Shields veteran

11-12  Dalini Foot regular

13-14 Landowners Cavalry regular     

15-16    Veterans cavalry veteran

17 Elite soldiers (roll 1D6 1= Veterans cavalry, 2= Landowners cavalry, 3= 1st Furthest Foot, 4=2nd Furthest Foot, 5=Silver Shield, 6=Dalini Foot)

18  Yanafal Tarnils Rune Lord and bodyguards (roll 1D6 1= Veterans cavalry, 2= Landowners cavalry, 3= 1st Furthest Foot, 4=2nd Furthest Foot, 5=Silver Shield, 6=Dalini Foot)

19-20 Special Enemy (roll 1D6 and consult the table below). This can only happen beginning in the second round of battle.

 

Special Enemy

1 Discorporate Lunar magician attacks one of the adventures in spirit combat (this is not a mass combat attack, but an individual Seven Mothers priestess making an attack). Additionally roll again on the Random Enemy table, rerolling results of 19-20. Handle this as a regular melee combat.

2. Small Elemental (roll 1D4 to determine type 1 =Fire, 2=Earth, 3=Darkness, 4=Water)

3. Lune Elemental (roll 1D6 to determine size 1-3=small, 4-5=medium, 6=large)  

4. Half-file (8 cavalry) of elite Veterans Cavalry are maneuvering to charge into the flank of the player's unit. The adventurers are in a position to disrupt it, but will be heavily outnumbered. Handle this as a regular melee combat. Success gives the player's unit commander a nice bonus to his Battle roll; failure an onerous penalty.

5 Adventurers can attack the commander of a Lunar regiment (roll 1D6 1= Veterans cavalry, 2= Landowners cavalry, 3= 1st Furthest Foot, 4=2nd Furthest Foot, 5=Silver Shield, 6=Dalini Foot) and his bodyguards! If they defeat the commander, there is no unit commander for that unit and there is a very good chance it will rout. On the other hand, they are very tough.

6. Adventurers can attack the Lunar standard bearer and its bodyguards. This is the magical regalia of that regiment and is fiercely protected. But if it falls to the adventurers, the regiment will rout!

Melee Event - use for rounds 1 and 2

3  King Pharandros and his bodyguard is fighting nearby (but too far for the adventurers to intervene), wreaking havoc on your unit.

4  Lunar magicians cast Mindblast on nearby allies.

5  Yanafal Tarnils Rune Lord is fighting nearby

6  Your unit retreats

6 (triple 2s) Nearby Lunars are inspired by their Loyalty to Pharandros or to the Red Emperor.

7 Round of missile fire on adventurers!

8 Enemy pushes forward!

9-12 The clash continues!

13 The enemy loses momentum.

14 The enemy is outnumbered, reduce the enemy group by 1,

15 A Storm Voice casts Thunderbolt or hurls Thunderstones at nearby Lunars. If the characters fight well that round, they can impress that Storm Voice. 

15 (triple 5s) Enemy unit retreats!

16 A Wind Lord and his bodyguard fight heroically nearby. If the characters fight well that round, they can impress that chief.

17 Queen Kallyr fights heroically nearby (replace with 18 after Round 4). Those with Loyalty Sartar can try to be inspired.

18 Queen Leika Black Spear fights heroically nearby. Any Colymar tribal characters can try to be inspired by their Loyalty Leika.

Round 3 Special Melee Event (don't roll for Special Enemy or Melee Event)

1D3 Lunar Assassins teleport behind your line and charge towards Kallyr Starbrow. Additionally roll again on the Random Enemy table, rerolling results of 19-20. The adventurers can try to save Kallyr but will still be attacked by their other foe. Let the players treat this as a regular melee, that lasts as long as they are willing and are able to continue. [If the character's fail, Kallyr dies. If the character's succeed, other assassins kill Kallyr, but they get a +10% bonus to Honor and Loyalty Sartar, as well as an impressive reputation]. 

Round 4 Melee Event

Kallyr Starbrow is dead! Unit commanders get a -25% penalty on their Battle roll. Any penalties the opposing Lunar commander had is now nullified! The Sartarites fall back and begin to retreat.

Round 5 Melee Event

Queen Leika Black Spear leads a charge at King Pharandros! The Lunars lose momentum and begin to retreat!

Round 6 Melee Event

The Lunars rout! Kallyr orders pursuit!

Round 7 Melee Event

Second round of pursuit!

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9 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

It sure is not the guide to Glorantha, Th only mention I find is on page 735 an follows.

Taint much...

Listen find the wayback machine, can’t recall the URL,  but I usually access it at glorantha.com. Find Jane William’s wonderful Kallyr and Kheldon (I believe)  Page.

 

http://www.jane-williams.me.uk/glorantha/stories/index.cfm

Just 2 stories in and so amazing! Thank you!
I also need to get to work. Just one more read.

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It will come up in my Tarsh based campaign pretty soon. But I expect my players (the PCs are close allies of Fazzur) will be... playing a different role in that battle. Quite likely one that involves teleporting.

Wow, funny how that guy providing the teleport magic looks like a Mastakos cultist. You'd think he should be on the other side, that's odd 🤔🤫

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2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Well I am still play testing the scenario and the battle rules, but here are some notes that you might find useful.

(FIRE SEASON) BATTLE OF THE QUEENS– King Pharandros took command of the remaining imperial troops in the provinces, and led them with the Tarsh army to conquer the disheartened Sartarites. Near where the Creek enters the Upland Marsh, some 5,000 Lunar soldiers faced off against less than 4,000 Sartarites led by Kallyr Starbrow. The Sartarites held a good defensive position at the base of Old Top Hill.

A band of Lunar elite soldiers were teleported behind the commanders, and Queen Kallyr was killed in battle. But Queen Leika Black Spear of the Colymar drove the enemy opposite her warriors into the river where they drowned, which caused the Lunar attack to stop. 

The next day, Queen Leika harassed the survivors so much that they retired to Alda-Chur. King Pharandros, fearing the machinations of his rival Fazzur Wideread, quickly returned to Furthest with his most loyal officers and regiments.

The Sartarites, despite their victory, suffered heavy casualties. Prince Kallyr Starbrow was dead and would not return despite the prayers of the healers. King Ranulf of the Culbrea, Queen Ivartha of the Cinsina, and Queen Amalda of the Malani also fell in battle. The Colymar, as the most powerful tribe present, took possession of Kallyr’s body and brought her corpse back to Boldhome to be burned.

This battle was chosen to make it clear that certain battles are not true sandboxes. Like in Pendragon, there will be events taking place during them. Kallyr will die during this battle, although the adventurers can achieve great fame by trying to defend her. The Lunars will rout in Round 6 but the players can certainly make a name for themselves and impact the flow of the battle. 

Order of Battle

Lunars

Army Commander: King Pharandros 

Veterans Horse – 500 veteran cavalry

Landholders Horse – 500 regular cavalry

1st Furthest Foot – 1000 foot levy

2nd Furthest Foot – 1000 foot levy

Silver Shields – 1000 veteran foot 

Dalini Foot – 1000 regular foot

Minor Class – 50 magicians

 

Sartar

Army Commander: Prince Kallyr

Cinsina – 600

Commander: Queen Ivartha

Cinsina Tribal Militia - 500

Cinsina Tribal Cavalry - 100

 

Colymar – 1250

Commander: Queen Leika

Colymar Tribal Militia - 800

Colymar Tribal Cavalry - 300 

Colymar Noble Cavalry - 130

Colymar Chariots - 20

 

Culbrea – 500

Commander: King Ranulf

Culbrea Tribal Militia

Culbrea Tribal Cavalry

 

Kheldon – 650

Commander: Prince Kallyr

Kheldon Tribal Militia - 500

Kheldon Tribal Cavalry - 130

Kheldon Chariots - 20

 

Malani -1000

Commander: Queen Amalda

Malani Tribal Militia - 750

Malani Tribal Cavalry - 150

Malani Noble Cavalry - 100

 

Random Enemy

1-4 1st Furthest Foot levy

5-8  2nd Furthest Foot levy

9-10  Silver Shields veteran

11-12  Dalini Foot regular

13-14 Landowners Cavalry regular     

15-16    Veterans cavalry veteran

17 Elite soldiers (roll 1D6 1= Veterans cavalry, 2= Landowners cavalry, 3= 1st Furthest Foot, 4=2nd Furthest Foot, 5=Silver Shield, 6=Dalini Foot)

18  Yanafal Tarnils Rune Lord and bodyguards (roll 1D6 1= Veterans cavalry, 2= Landowners cavalry, 3= 1st Furthest Foot, 4=2nd Furthest Foot, 5=Silver Shield, 6=Dalini Foot)

19-20 Special Enemy (roll 1D6 and consult the table below). This can only happen beginning in the second round of battle.

 

Special Enemy

1 Discorporate Lunar magician attacks one of the adventures in spirit combat (this is not a mass combat attack, but an individual Seven Mothers priestess making an attack). Additionally roll again on the Random Enemy table, rerolling results of 19-20. Handle this as a regular melee combat.

2. Small Elemental (roll 1D4 to determine type 1 =Fire, 2=Earth, 3=Darkness, 4=Water)

3. Lune Elemental (roll 1D6 to determine size 1-3=small, 4-5=medium, 6=large)  

4. Half-file (8 cavalry) of elite Veterans Cavalry are maneuvering to charge into the flank of the player's unit. The adventurers are in a position to disrupt it, but will be heavily outnumbered. Handle this as a regular melee combat. Success gives the player's unit commander a nice bonus to his Battle roll; failure an onerous penalty.

5 Adventurers can attack the commander of a Lunar regiment (roll 1D6 1= Veterans cavalry, 2= Landowners cavalry, 3= 1st Furthest Foot, 4=2nd Furthest Foot, 5=Silver Shield, 6=Dalini Foot) and his bodyguards! If they defeat the commander, there is no unit commander for that unit and there is a very good chance it will rout. On the other hand, they are very tough.

6. Adventurers can attack the Lunar standard bearer and its bodyguards. This is the magical regalia of that regiment and is fiercely protected. But if it falls to the adventurers, the regiment will rout!

Melee Event - use for rounds 1 and 2

3  King Pharandros and his bodyguard is fighting nearby (but too far for the adventurers to intervene), wreaking havoc on your unit.

4  Lunar magicians cast Mindblast on nearby allies.

5  Yanafal Tarnils Rune Lord is fighting nearby

6  Your unit retreats

6 (triple 2s) Nearby Lunars are inspired by their Loyalty to Pharandros or to the Red Emperor.

7 Round of missile fire on adventurers!

8 Enemy pushes forward!

9-12 The clash continues!

13 The enemy loses momentum.

14 The enemy is outnumbered, reduce the enemy group by 1,

15 A Storm Voice casts Thunderbolt or hurls Thunderstones at nearby Lunars. If the characters fight well that round, they can impress that Storm Voice. 

15 (triple 5s) Enemy unit retreats!

16 A Wind Lord and his bodyguard fight heroically nearby. If the characters fight well that round, they can impress that chief.

17 Queen Kallyr fights heroically nearby (replace with 18 after Round 4). Those with Loyalty Sartar can try to be inspired.

18 Queen Leika Black Spear fights heroically nearby. Any Colymar tribal characters can try to be inspired by their Loyalty Leika.

Round 3 Special Melee Event (don't roll for Special Enemy or Melee Event)

1D3 Lunar Assassins teleport behind your line and charge towards Kallyr Starbrow. Additionally roll again on the Random Enemy table, rerolling results of 19-20. The adventurers can try to save Kallyr but will still be attacked by their other foe. Let the players treat this as a regular melee, that lasts as long as they are willing and are able to continue. [If the character's fail, Kallyr dies. If the character's succeed, other assassins kill Kallyr, but they get a +10% bonus to Honor and Loyalty Sartar, as well as an impressive reputation]. 

Round 4 Melee Event

Kallyr Starbrow is dead! Unit commanders get a -25% penalty on their Battle roll. Any penalties the opposing Lunar commander had is now nullified! The Sartarites fall back and begin to retreat.

Round 5 Melee Event

Queen Leika Black Spear leads a charge at King Pharandros! The Lunars lose momentum and begin to retreat!

Round 6 Melee Event

The Lunars rout! Kallyr orders pursuit!

Round 7 Melee Event

Second round of pursuit!

Oh this is so good. Thank you!

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45 minutes ago, davecake said:

But I expect my players (the PCs are close allies of Fazzur) will be... playing a different role in that battle.

OMG your players are playing... THE BAD GUYS!

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Fascinating stuff!  TYVM Jeff (while not directly or immediately useful to me, it speaks wonderfully of you & Chaosium).

One question, though...

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

...

Melee Event - use for rounds 1 and 2

...

Round 3 Special Melee Event (don't roll for Special Enemy or Melee Event)

... 

Round 4 Melee Event

...

Round 5 Melee Event

...

Round 6 Melee Event

...

About how long are these Battle-scale "rounds"?

Are they intentionally amorphous scene-oriented "last as long as needed" segments, or are they actually set durations?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, g33k said:

Fascinating stuff!  TYVM Jeff (while not directly or immediately useful to me, it speaks wonderfully of you & Chaosium).

One question, though...

About how long are these Battle-scale "rounds"?

Are they intentionally amorphous scene-oriented "last as long as needed" segments, or are they actually set durations?

 

 

Intentionally amorphous scene-oriented segments. They are the exciting points in the battle for player characters. The approach we are taking to battle is entirely player-character oriented.

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7 hours ago, Ochoa said:

And so begins my hacking the timeline to adapt to my players' progress. Right now they're three weeks game time from the battle (and already at Humakt's hill which is convenient). They know there will be a battle and can`t wait to join up. I guess I'll make this just a battle and not the BotQ, perhaps I'll just move the timeline up a year.

You can read my RQG PbF version of the Battle of the Queens starting here: RQG Battle of the Queens

[Prior pages start with the gathering and march to Runegate, if of interest.]

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