Q: Sorcery and the Separate Technique

[Hteph]

So now I have arrived at perhaps the most controversial part of all Runequests rules through the ages ... Sorcery.

I mostly like this version, but there is one thing that I really can't wrap my head around and that is the Separate technique ... and it seems the designers may have had the same problem as I can't find any examples of its use. The opposing Combine is easier to parse, but looking at those examples I have a problem envision a spell using Spearate.

A "Sever Spirit"-ish using Man, Spirit and Separate perhaps ... or a Man, Earth and Separate to create anti-gravity?

I really don't know, it feels like those isn't the opposite of Combine.

[PhilHibbs]

39 minutes ago, Hteph said:

I mostly like this version, but there is one thing that I really can't wrap my head around and that is the Separate technique ... and it seems the designers may have had the same problem as I can't find any examples of its use.

Hm, you're right:

Command	23
Combine	19
Dispel	9
Separate	0
Summon	11
Tap	2

Actually I should check that list as it may well have been based on an early version of the rules.

Edited September 18, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[PhilHibbs]

I imagine there will be some cases where the same effect can be achieved by both combinging one rune and by separating its opposite rune, such as "Calm Water" could be "Combine-Water-Stasis" or "Separate-Water-Movement".

*Edit* Except that that should be Combine-Water-Harmony....

Edited September 18, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Richard S.]

Here's some ideas for spells maybe:

Kill: separate-life-man

Civilise: separate-beast-man

Dispel Rain: separate-air-water

Break Earth: seperate-stasis-earth

Hm. Y'know most spells that use power runes can be made using either seperate or combine, just switch out the rune.

[Joerg]

There are a few obvious spells I can think of - separate water for drying stuff and creating a puddle or container of water, separate fire for dousing a fire and having a short-lived flame. Adding Command to the latter gives you a fiery orb or wall that you can direct at others.

Separate Darkness might be a spell to detoxify some food, drink, or even a wound, or to concentrate a weak venom to something of immediate use.

In connection with alchemy or mining, Separate is a god-sent. Want gold nuggets? Build a spell on Separate Fire. Want to avoid getting drunk, or want to pour a strong drink? Separate Water.

 

Working on creatures might be trickier. Separate Man could be used for a sorcerous variation of Befuddle or a short-term parallel of Alter Creature. Separate Mobility might be used for Hinder (but Summon Stasis would do as well).

 

[PhilHibbs]

I imagine that where a spell can be described by more than one technique-runes combinaton, a sorcerer will learn one combination and that's it. The combination will be the one taught by their cult, school, or scroll. They might be able to figure out a different way of achieving the same effect, using techniques or runes that they have easier access to.

[David Scott]

18 hours ago, Hteph said:

The opposing Combine is easier to parse, but looking at those examples I have a problem envision a spell using Spearate.

A "Sever Spirit"-ish using Man, Spirit and Separate perhaps ... or a Man, Earth and Separate to create anti-gravity?

The place for me to start is alway what is the combined version that needs separating. I've thought that a sorcerous dictionary is one way forward, defining in runic terms what things are. Clearly there will be synonyms, perhaps with different schools using different definitions. Within the separation technique there will also be degrees of separation. For example if we define living humanoids as Man, Spirit & Life we've a basis for not only other definitions, but can apply techniques to them:

Man, Spirit & Life - clearly we can modify this with elements to get sub types other than humans (trolls, merpeople, etc)

Beast, Spirit & Life - likewise fire for horses, storm for cows etc.

Plant, Spirit & Life - Plants and elves, with subtypes from elements

there are five possible separate spells here: 

Separate Spirit - Discorporation. Life is still present.

Separate (Form) Rune - Looks like it might create fertility spirits. These would be handy for reanimating dead things...

Separate Life, acts on anything living (I think this a costly method as no Death is involved, a "better" version would be Command Death)

[Hteph]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Separate Life, acts on anything living (I think this a costly method as no Death is involved, a "better" version would be Command Death)

hmmmm ... yeah, I would say that this would produce a ghost, or similar, perhaps a (dangerous) way for a Sorcerer to jump between bodies if combined with a suitable second spell for inserting them into a suitable vessel.

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Separate Life, acts on anything living (I think this a costly method as no Death is involved, a "better" version would be Command Death)

That's an interesting idea, some forms might involve more runes or techniques, where a more fitting version requires only one of each.

[Tindalos]

Looking at some of the spells here there's a couple which could be based on Separation.

With the Ezokite/Ekozite school of Alchemy, "Separate Earth and Water" is kind of obvious, but "Distil Mixed Liquid into Pure" could have it as well (Separate Water and something else?), as might "Liquify Solid" (Separate Stasis from Earth?) While the Furlandans have "Force Spirit out of Body" (Separate Spirit and Man).

[metcalph]

Possible separation spells

Amputate Limb

Decapitate

Remove Organ

Part Waters

Excise Emotion

Furrow Earth

Create Chasm

Ostracise

Cleave foliage

Rend Cosmos

Remove Memory

Sunder Rune.