Winter in Dragon Pass

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

She could have a darkness mother, wife of Valind, maybe a daughter of Himile. Who is Valind's mother? Might also be a darkness deity, perhaps another daughter of Himile.

Inora's moter is Kero Fin. No Darkness there...

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Wait, first it was too cold to wear togas, and now it's too warm to wear togas?

yes

togas are for nice mediterranean climates, not roiling middle-of-America nightmare weather.

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Peloria being pretty cold in winter, and Dragon Pass relatively mild is probably one of those reasons why certain terminology associated with northern Europe is seen as misleading for the Orlanthi.

The cultures associated with the Orlanthi are from Western and Central Europe, and often southernmost Central Europe (Danubian region in Germany). Where I live (Viking land north of most of Germany), it is equally far to the tip of Sicily as it is to the North Cape. England and Wales are fairly southerly, and southern England (even some places in southern Scotland) has palms linining the beach roads.

Northern Europe starts around Oslo (or IMO rather Møre-Romsdal), Stockholm, Helsinki.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The same goes for the wine vs. beer debate, with ale probably being more prevalent in Peloria, but since many people associate the Lunar Empire with the Roman Empire*, Ancient Sumar-Akkadia or the like, wine seems more "thematic", while ale-swigging Orlanthi also seems more "thematic" for many.

Castle Stahleck is smack-dab inside the wine-growing region of Europe. The Champagne is where the Channel is narrowest, and well known for its sparkly wine. At my workplace, I need to prepare the first grape harvest...

The oldest beer recipe we have is from Mesopotamia. (It uses grapes for yeast cultures.)

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

consistently referring to the Orlanthi as "barbarians" in promotional material probably doesn't help

The Romans and Phoenicians were Barbarians ("stammerers"), so were the Illyrian and Celts who encroached and occasionally violated Greek settled space.

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

You know what you did to Rome!

Enter reverently and respectfully take some loot from the rich nobles, leaving all the churches intact, only taking a few relics for their own worship. It takes civilized people on a rampage to destroy cities, which is why I think that the Sea People who leveled Ugarit were Myceneans.

 

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Well you might well in Fireseason when the temps soar. The secret is what they wear under the togas in Darkseason - some nice thick woolens sheared from highland sheep.

Probably they wear some pottery burning incense, to make up for the fact that they avoid washing with water. The waste heat gathers nicely below those ponchos. The half-citizens with their mini-skirts have it hard, but compare the Caledonians.

(A devout fire worshiper should use a series of ever lighter oils, and remove residual ones with flame, IMO.)

 

 

 

[Bill the barbarian]

8 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Enter reverently and respectfully take some loot from the rich nobles, leaving all the churches intact, only taking a few relics for their own worship. It takes civilized people on a rampage to destroy cities, which is why I think that the Sea People who leveled Ugarit were Myceneans.

 

yeah, what he said!!

[Austin]

All this intriguing speculation and cultural stuff aside, does anyone have suggestions for particular numbers these temperatures would be hitting, beyond their average lows/highs? (I know, I know, gods forbid we try to hammer any portion of Glorantha down to a number... )

[scott-martin]

On 9/19/2019 at 6:46 AM, Crel said:

The lowest marked in RQG is 14F/-10C in Clearwine overnight during late Dark season. So would that be about 10F/-12C up in the Starfire Ridges? How about over in Boldhome? Maybe "typical" blizzard temps of 0F/-18C throughout Sartar? I'm just not sure how much the elevation and weather patterns in those areas ought to impact temperature.

Since my Sartar is largely Colorado, a few magically interesting things happen as you go farther up. First, local terrain variations break up the territory into more distinct micro climates that then fluctuate across a more extreme range . . . it's moodier weather, with a larger number of smaller fronts packed into a lot of three-dimensional space but a relatively small amount of space on the map. In other words this is a wind nursery and when you have a lot of baby winds in a small space they fight each other, cancelling out their aggregate force. That weather just doesn't go anywhere.

Compare this to the Great Plains of Peloria where by the time you get a wind front moving it's pretty big and coherent. Generally it's also very cold, which is why you get your gigantic blizzards across vast flat territories. In Colorado, the world can end on one pass and the sun keeps shining on the next one 300 feet down slope. Then the next day they switch. The winds in their home country are fickle. Average moods are provided but bet on them being extremely volatile. (A more boring temperature table would probably include standard variations to gauge local wind moodiness . . . nobody wants that, just talk to the wind and get to know how it swings.)

Also while I leave the angles to the trigonometry specialists, the war between light and dark gets more stark as you rise. Most of the country gets very bright in the days if not hot (don't worry, temperatures are coming) . . . but there are crannies where the upland sun never shines and they get literally cold as hell. Glacier ice in August. Five foot snow pack in June in the shade, surrounded by vast columbine fields. Storm and Dark have a sympathetic and complex relationship. Up there, they're each other's Best Friends. It's also one of the esoteric secrets of the upland sun and Inora as reflector but we aren't here for that.

So what this adds up to is that when there's grumbling in Peloria, everyone complains about the same thing. In Sartar, just put on your shoes and walk 30 feet and maybe the microclimate there fits your needs a little better. There's always another valley and by the time you get there the wind will change.

TLDR Clearwine works for Ouray in terms of average winter temperatures but catch the winds in a bad swing and it gets down to -22F/-30C. Go up another 500 feet to Silverton (one five-mile hex SOUTH) and the weather gets worse, average winter temperature drops to 1F/-20C with a historical minimum around -39/-39. Go like a mile west from there and 5,000 vertical feet farther up and Owl Creek Pass averages -2/-21 in January. Probably gets a whole lot colder at its coldest but nothing human is paying attention at that point. Only the hairy ones if anyone will dance there then. 

Granted, Peloria gets colder but that's because you have the howling Valind waste within frostbite range. Wind is not inherently cold in itself but a heat distribution engine, so Orlanth in his country blows both cold and hot. Take Orlanth out of the equation and his colder cousins leap in to fill the gap. In apocalyptic polar vortex conditions it got down to -61/-51 in Sartar a few years ago. Good thing the world didn't actually end.

Edited September 21, 2019 by scott-martin
Silverton record low, a few infelicities combed while we're here (quote below preserves all original text!)

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

Since my Sartar is largely Colorado, a few magically interesting things happen as you go farther up. First, local terrain variations break up the territory into more distinct micro climates that then fluctuate across a more extreme range . . . it's moodier weather, with a larger number of smaller fronts packed into a lot of three-dimensional space but a relatively small amount of territory on the map. In other words this is a wind nursery and one thing a lot of winds packed into a small space will do is fight each other, cancelling out their overall force.

Compare this to the Great Plains of Peloria where by the time you get a wind front moving it's pretty big and coherent. Generally it's also very cold, which is why you get your gigantic blizzards across vast flat territories. In Colorado, the world can end on one pass and the sun keeps shining on the next one 300 feet down slope. Then the next day they switch. The winds in their home country are fickle. Average moods are provided but bet on them being extremely volatile. (A more boring temperature table would probably include standard variations to gauge local wind moodiness . . . nobody wants that, just talk to the wind and get to know how it swings.)

Also while I leave the angles to the trigonometry specialists, the war between light and dark literally gets more stark as you rise. Most of the country gets very bright in the days if not hot (don't worry, temperatures are coming) . . . but there are crannies where the upland sun never shines and they get literally cold as hell. Glacier ice in August. Five foot snow pack in June in the shade, surrounded by vast columbine fields. Storm and Dark have a sympathetic and complex relationship. Up there, they're each other's Best Friends. It's also one of the esoteric secrets of the upland sun and Inora as reflector but we aren't here for that.

So what this adds up to is that when there's grumbling in Peloria, everyone complains about the same thing. In Sartar, just put on your shoes and walk 30 feet and maybe the microclimate there fits your needs a little better. There's always another valley and by the time you get there the wind will change.

TLDR Clearwine works for Ouray in terms of average winter temperatures but catch the winds in a bad swing and it gets down to -22F/-30C. Go up another 500 feet to Silverton (one five-mile hex SOUTH) and the weather gets worse, average winter temperature drops to 1F/-20C. Go like a mile west from there and 5,000 vertical feet farther up and Owl Creek Pass averages -2/-21 in January. Probably gets a whole lot colder at its coldest but nothing human is paying attention at that point. Only the hairy ones if anyone will dance there then. 

Granted, Peloria gets colder but that's because you have the howling Valind waste within frostbite range. Wind is not inherently cold in itself but a heat distribution engine, so Orlanth in his country blows both cold and hot. Take Orlanth out of the equation and his colder cousins leap in to fill the gap. In apocalyptic polar vortex conditions it got down to -61/-51 in Sartar a few years ago. Good thing the world didn't actually end.

Yes - this. Ouray works very well for Clearwine. 

[scott-martin]

Just now, Jeff said:

Yes - this. Ouray works very well for Clearwine. 

[PICTURE RELUCTANTLY SNIPPED FOR BANDWIDTH PEOPLE]

 God I love that little town. The Colymar can have whatever they want.

[Jeff]

Or this:

[Jeff]

Just now, scott-martin said:

 God I love that little town. The Colymar can have whatever they want.

I've been in that corner of the state many times. And yes, it is a great source of ideas for Sartar. Same with Durango and Telluride. Driving along the Million Dollar Highway is a delight. Snow in June last time I was there.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

[PICTURE RELUCTANTLY SNIPPED FOR BANDWIDTH PEOPLE]

 

Merci beaucoup! I understand your reluctance to snip having lived in those same rockies for a good portions of my life albeit much further north, those pics are very nice but those of us with slower connections appreciate the sacrifice. Gents, what are the copy-writes on those pics. I will probably play with them a bit for my table but even then proper accreditation is nice.

Now off to manipulate those photos and try to carve out the towns... Damn I miss Photoshop (after Adobe having gotten tens {is this really possible?} thousands of dollars from me... never mind... where’s that damn blood pressure medication!) This could a slog in GIMP but here goes!

Edited September 21, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Bill the barbarian]

12 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Gents, what are the copy-writes on those pics. I will probably play with them a bit for my table but even then proper accreditation is nice.

Never mind hovering my cursor tells me these are from https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Ouray,_Colorado.JPG/2880px-Ouray,_Colorado.JPG... looks like I can find out everything I could want to know there. 

Cheers

[scott-martin]

Sing for the high countries at the edge of the sky. True confession, I can remember the day they first took me below a mile elevation because I got a nosebleed!

6 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Merci beaucoup! I understand your reluctanceto snip having lived in those same rockies for a good portions of my life albeit much further north, those pics are very nice but those of us with slower connections appreciate the sacrifice. Gents, what are the copy-writes on those pics. I will probably play with them a bit for my table but even then proper accreditation is nice.

This proves for the record you are not my dad unless "much" further north means Montrose instead of, like, Pocatello, which I guess is getting up to Talsardia. Thanks all. We live by the water now in order to pursue a different vector of freedom. 

(There seem to be a whole lot of prewar postcards of Colorado and other Rocky tourist destinations floating around online, I am no photo lawyer but suspect the older ones have lapsed. We get by here with Seashore . . . there must be a version of that that runs better on someone's system than GIMP.)

[Bill the barbarian]

30 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

This proves for the record you are not my dad

<rasping voice>
Luke, Luke my boy, is that you? Help me get this breathing apparatus off!
Hee hee!

I must say that as I read that cheery ”Winter in Sartar” Topic heading from my browser this morning (the sound of Canada Geese preparing for a southward journey out my open window, a hint of chill in the air) my imagination began to draw fluffy inviting snow piles on the letters—Charles Shultz style,  you know, the cute ones that threaten to topple over at any moment, My thoughts turned to the smell of peppermint and hot cocoa and the feel of mufflers and toques. Yeah, picturing and presenting winter at my table is not a problem. I have run Alan LaVergne’s wonderful solo module for my tables. It's about getting the princess (and what a great orlanthi princess she was) across the mountains in winter to a wedding, I believe that’s the story. a few times. Great module, solo or not. Lot’s of fun.

Have had many great times running the Vikings horror at yule module lifted from Norway and set down gently in Sartar. Good times. Made me think of Carpeter’s the Thing a few times. So, any suggestions for great winter modules in Sartar out there in Grognard land. What about the battle for Iceland from SkoH?

Oooh, I felt that shiver right through me, time to break out another blanket! and another cup of cocoa!

Cheers

Edited September 21, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Akhôrahil]

20 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Peloria being pretty cold in winter, and Dragon Pass relatively mild is probably one of those reasons why certain terminology associated with northern Europe is seen as misleading for the Orlanthi. 

Or for Dragon Pass Orlanthi. My Talastar will have some rough weather, especially deep snows.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

Driving along the Million Dollar Highway is a delight.

That's one way to describe it! 

[Sir_Godspeed]

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Or for Dragon Pass Orlanthi. My Talastar will have some rough weather, especially deep snows.

Oh, definitely.

[Kloster]

On 9/20/2019 at 8:40 PM, Jeff said:

For what it is worth, you find weather like Minnesota in Yuthuppa, Elz Ast, Joranit or the Thunder Delta (at least you did prior to the Kalikos Expeditions). Sartar is far to the south. Its weather  is more like that of Switzerland or highland Bulgaria. 

Where in Switzerland: Geneva, Luzern, Lugano or St Moritz?

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

Where in Switzerland: Geneva, Luzern, Lugano or St Moritz?

Probably depends on where in Sartar.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Probably depends on where in Sartar.

Let's say Boldhome or Clearwine, or Apple Lane.

[Jeff]

13 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Let's say Boldhome or Clearwine, or Apple Lane.

Gruyéres is probably a good point of comparison for Clearwine or Apple Lane, Davos is a good point of comparison for Boldhome. 

[Kloster]

10 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Gruyéres is probably a good point of comparison for Clearwine or Apple Lane, Davos is a good point of comparison for Boldhome. 

Those, I know. It is easier for me to compare with Swiss towns, having lived close to Switzerland for 30 years than using US midwest comparison. Thanks.

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Those, I know. It is easier for me to compare with Swiss towns, having lived close to Switzerland for 30 years than using US midwest comparison. Thanks.

The Rocky Mountains are the WEST, not the mid-west. That's like calling the Swiss Poles.

[Kloster]

27 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Rocky Mountains are the WEST, not the mid-west. That's like calling the Swiss Poles.

Ooooops.

[Sir_Godspeed]

53 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Ooooops.

oh no we did a racism.









(I'm joking)