Chaos and Broo Chicanery

[Qizilbashwoman]

I have this question about Chaos infection-affecting spells, for example if you cast an appropriate spell on someone with a Broo-implanted larva as well as a Broo-inflicted disease; does it get both in one go?

Also, does anyone know which spells currently cure Broo implantation in RQ:G? I'm interested in knowing who aside from White Women can cure.

Example: Cure Chaos Wound says "The spell also completely cures the victim of broo impregnation and removes its consequences. It also cures diseases received from a Chaotic creature." It does not clarify for me if it does both in one shot, mostly because I've not entirely grokked the rules yet.

[Joerg]

45 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I have this question about Chaos infection-affecting spells, for example if you cast an appropriate spell on someone with a Broo-implanted larva as well as a Broo-inflicted disease; does it get both in one go?

Mal(l)ia's diseases aren't chaotic. They are Darkness. The horrible kind.

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Also, does anyone know which spells currently cure Broo implantation in RQ:G? I'm interested in knowing who aside from White Women can cure.

Apart from Cure Chaos Wound, is there a cure other than to cut out that larva before it destroys the host, followed by a Heal Body?

Sever Spirit might work if the larva can be targeted using Second Sight, but then the "infected" matter still has to be removed.

Are there any "phages" against broo larvae? Gorakiki Ichneumon Wasp might have the spell for you... but probably needs some command spell to minimize damage to the host of the broo larva both when infecting the broo larva and when hatching from the remains of the larva inside the larva's host.

An injection of Gorp, again with a long term command spell, and subsequent draining of the gorp might be the least invasive technique to remove a broo larva.

 

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Example: Cure Chaos Wound says "The spell also completely cures the victim of broo impregnation and removes its consequences. It also cures diseases received from a Chaotic creature." It does not clarify for me if it does both in one shot, mostly because I've not entirely grokked the rules yet.

Diseases received from a Chaotic creature - does this include infected equipment picked up by looters, or is this restricted to infections transferred via natural weapons (teeth, horns, claws) of the disease carrier?

Removes the consequences of broo infection - as in Heal Body following "destroy and dissolve the larva, and any poison that it may have left in the host"? (And removing the chaos taint from the broo infection, too, though none of any other source.)

 

But this makes me think of a weird character concept - a Storm Bull healer.

 

The spell needs to be stacked with a healing spell. As such, it probably can only cure diseases contracted through open wounds - normal infection doesn't need normal healing magic.

IMO it should be one spell per infected wound, and non-wound infections are unavailable for treatment by this spell. That's what "Cure All Disease" is for. If a broo headbutt manages to transfer several diseases with one contact, all of them are the same wound.

One fundamental statement about Glorantha is that it has no STDs. Hence, injection of a broo larva shouldn't also transfer a disease. The previous grapple attack is a different matter, though.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Joerg

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Example: Cure Chaos Wound says "The spell also completely cures the victim of broo impregnation and removes its consequences. It also cures diseases received from a Chaotic creature." It does not clarify for me if it does both in one shot, mostly because I've not entirely grokked the rules yet.

I would play that it removes both. as it is not a Stackable spell, at least it doesn't stack with itself.

[soltakss]

50 minutes ago, Joerg said:

One fundamental statement about Glorantha is that it has no STDs. Hence, injection of a broo larva shouldn't also transfer a disease. The previous grapple attack is a different matter, though.

Hah! Mallia has many types of disease and there should be STDs in Glorantha. For example, Cockrot and Screaming Pus are sent as punishment to vile fornicators.

[Qizilbashwoman]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Hah! Mallia has many types of disease and there should be STDs in Glorantha. For example, Cockrot and Screaming Pus are sent as punishment to vile fornicators.

it's my understanding that disease works exactly like in real life, except what causes it ultimately are spirits. you certainly can give thunderlung to others; I certainly believe that diseases can be transmitted by contact, like influenzas and STIs.

[Brootse]

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

Mal(l)ia's diseases aren't chaotic. They are Darkness. The horrible kind.

What's the source for this?

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Brootse said:

What's the source for this?

Mal(l)ia's runes (outside of worship by broos) are Death and Darkness. Cult Compendium p.255. Her role  in the world may be destructive, but is a necessary part of the cycle, and titles like "Janitor of the Gods" show a role in the greater picture of things that is lacking for most Chaos deities.

A disease does not imbue or carry a chaos taint detectable by Storm Bull's Sense Chaos.

[Brootse]

33 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Mal(l)ia's runes (outside of worship by broos) are Death and Darkness. Cult Compendium p.255. Her role  in the world may be destructive, but is a necessary part of the cycle, and titles like "Janitor of the Gods" show a role in the greater picture of things that is lacking for most Chaos deities.

A disease does not imbue or carry a chaos taint detectable by Storm Bull's Sense Chaos.

Mallia has a Chaos rune according to Bestiary p. 93. Carry Disease spell uses Death and Chaos runes and cause disease uses Darkness and Chaos runes. Mallias diseases are chaotic.

[Joerg]

I did say "outside the worship by broos", didn't I? To repeat:

Cult Compendium p.255:

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Runic  Associations
Mallia  is  associated  with  the  Runes  of  Death  and Darkness,  her  foundations  and  heritage.  Where she  is  worshipped  by  broos  she  also  is  associated with  the  Chaos  Rune.

This goddess has an existence untainted by the broos, too. Worship of Malia was instrumental for the survival through the Greater Darkness for many a group.

And even Orlanth has a not so secret association with the Mistress of Disease - his Impests are an affliction very hard to discern from one caused by Disease spirits.

 

3 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Mallia has a Chaos rune according to Bestiary p. 93. Carry Disease spell uses Death and Chaos runes and cause disease uses Darkness and Chaos runes. Mallias diseases are chaotic.

That's the broo cult, which is chaotic and uses the Chaos rune.

There is more to Mal(l)ia than broo worship.

Chaos can insert itself and its rune into the roles of other runes. Outside of broo worship, these spells are using Death or Darkness.

I'll give you chaotic taint if the spell was cast by a broo using the Chaos rune.

 

But: Carry Disease uses Death or Chaos. Cause Disease uses Darkness or Chaos.

Only one rune is used to invoke a rune spell, spells with more than one rune show that different cults use different runes to cast this spell. That's why Orlanth's version of the Charisma spell uses the Illusion rune (the spell being a tribute by his bonded Trickster Eurmal).

The anti-Vaxxer stance is a form of Malia worship in the real world - these people encourage personal immunity from e.g. the Measles by infection, undermining herd immunity protecting those who will take severe (often lethal) damage from the disease.

[PhilHibbs]

4 hours ago, Brootse said:

Carry Disease spell uses Death and Chaos runes and cause disease uses Darkness and Chaos runes.

That's like saying Charisma is Illusion magic. Not when Ernalda casts it it isn't.

[Qizilbashwoman]

Disease is a kind of life, just like in real life. Sure and it has spirits associated with it, but so do plants...

Chaos just turns it into Really Bad Stuff, just like broos are a kind of Person Rune gone Chaos.

[Brootse]

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

I did say "outside the worship by broos", didn't I? To repeat:

Cult Compendium p.255:

This goddess has an existence untainted by the broos, too. Worship of Malia was instrumental for the survival through the Greater Darkness for many a group.

And even Orlanth has a not so secret association with the Mistress of Disease - his Impests are an affliction very hard to discern from one caused by Disease spirits.

 

That's the broo cult, which is chaotic and uses the Chaos rune.

There is more to Mal(l)ia than broo worship.

Chaos can insert itself and its rune into the roles of other runes. Outside of broo worship, these spells are using Death or Darkness.

I'll give you chaotic taint if the spell was cast by a broo using the Chaos rune.

 

But: Carry Disease uses Death or Chaos. Cause Disease uses Darkness or Chaos.

Only one rune is used to invoke a rune spell, spells with more than one rune show that different cults use different runes to cast this spell. That's why Orlanth's version of the Charisma spell uses the Illusion rune (the spell being a tribute by his bonded Trickster Eurmal).

The anti-Vaxxer stance is a form of Malia worship in the real world - these people encourage personal immunity from e.g. the Measles by infection, undermining herd immunity protecting those who will take severe (often lethal) damage from the disease.

 

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

That's like saying Charisma is Illusion magic. Not when Ernalda casts it it isn't.

Cult Compendium's Mallia is 2nd ed. material. Which non-chaotic Deities provide disease spreading spells?

[Joerg]

5 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Cult Compendium's Mallia is 2nd ed. material. Which non-chaotic Deities provide disease spreading spells?

Could someone check the GaGoG manuscript whether that statement has been altered significantly, please?

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Could someone check the GaGoG manuscript whether that statement has been altered significantly, please?

I have an old copy, which is probably way out of date.

Mee Vorala grants Moulder, which affects one object with a fungus disease.

Nysalor Prophets are said to have cured diseases that they started, but doesn't go into detail about where they got the diseases from.

[Joerg]

8 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I have an old copy, which is probably way out of date.

I was talking about the Malia cult and its runes - provided this was already part of that older manuscript, I would be interested whether there are significant changes to the runes of Malia.

 

[soltakss]

26 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I was talking about the Malia cult and its runes - provided this was already part of that older manuscript, I would be interested whether there are significant changes to the runes of Malia.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

Yelm has:

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Yelm received the title of Healer when once he came upon Mallia, goddess of disease, as she festered and infected a corner of the world. Yelm’s healing brightness drove the foul goddess away into deep places where she eventually found Chaos to aid her.

Which implies that Mallia's diseases were not Chaotic until she found aid from Chaos.

The version I have doesn't have the Mallia cult, unfortunately.

 

[metcalph]

Jeff' has said that the propitiatory worship of Malia was non-chaotic while the direct worship of Malia is chaotic, which suggests that her magics are chaotic (but not necessarily whether a disease spirit is).

RuneQuest 3 (Combined rulebook p260) lists spirits of disease as Possible Chaotic Creatures but place in brackets which means "may only be mildly tainted with chaos". 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Which implies that Mallia's diseases were not Chaotic until she found aid from Chaos.

Fair enough. But then it can be argued that Thed's broos were not Chaotic before she gave birth to the Devil, and the Wild Healer of the Rockwoods and the rumored warm valley beyond the Glacier nonwithstanding, all known broos are chaotic now.

On the other hand, the encounter with Pocharngo mutated only a portion of the overall troll population into cave (and sea) trolls bearing the chaotic taint (and a quite benevolent one, too).

 

There are a couple of associates of the Chaos deities which aren't chaotic of themselves. Most Lunar deities, to start with.

[Qizilbashwoman]

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

Thed's broos were not Chaotic before she gave birth to the Devil,

this is literally true, except they were Ragnaglar's folk, not Thed's.

[M Helsdon]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:02 PM, Joerg said:

Could someone check the GaGoG manuscript whether that statement has been altered significantly, please?

Mallia is associated with the Runes of Death and Darkness, her foundations and heritage. Where she is worshipped by broos she also is associated with the Chaos Rune.

[Joerg]

24 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Mallia is associated with the Runes of Death and Darkness, her foundations and heritage. Where she is worshipped by broos she also is associated with the Chaos Rune.

Thanks, Martin. That looks like it is verbatim from Cults of Terror, much like I expected.

[Shiningbrow]

Apologies for the resurrection, but does this mean that the summoning and controlling (and perhaps even the siccing on someone) of disease spirits is not a chaotic act? 

 

Given you get POW and a year's immunity to the disease, as well as removing another bad spirit from the world, it seems a really smart idea to do this regularly... 

[metcalph]

40 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Apologies for the resurrection, but does this mean that the summoning and controlling (and perhaps even the siccing on someone) of disease spirits is not a chaotic act? 

Propitiary worship of Malia ("please don't give us your nasty horrible diseases") is not chaotic.  Nobody likes doing it for the same reason that nobody likes paying a gangster protection money.

Summoning and controlling disease spirits is chaotic.

 

 

[g33k]

18 hours ago, metcalph said:

...

Summoning and controlling disease spirits is chaotic.

Except... apparently it's not?  Or at least, not always.

There is, it seems, some degree of "it's part of the natural cycle" to Malia's work in the world, however unpleasant it may be.

Only Broos' worship is auto- Chaotic.

Presumably other worshipers can access the full suite of Disease spirits (and spells?  Are there any spell-caused disease in Malia's Rune Magic?) without automatically being Chaotic.

[metcalph]

1 minute ago, g33k said:

Except... apparently it's not?  Or at least, not always.

I disagree.

1 minute ago, g33k said:

Only Broos' worship is auto- Chaotic.

People who worship Malia is a non-propitiatory fashion are chaotics.  Since most such worshippers of Malia are broos and the people who worship Malia in a propitiatory fashion are not broos, broo worship of Malia is chaotic is a truism.