God Time and objective truth

[Qizilbashwoman]

10 minutes ago, soltakss said:

They killed him so that he couldn't teach anyone else his special knowledge. Basically, they wanted the power to use and not fear Chaos for themselves.

Do you think there's a link between Jernotius and Rashorana? They share some commonalities but I don't see anything that doesn't relate to Illumination (ignoring the external, like gender, etc.). I think the link between all these Illumination deities is just them sewn together by Red Goddess theologians and perhaps by their Pelandan predecessors. The story of Jernotius is a discrete myth narrative of a solid deity who is firmly ensconced in a pantheon, with children and grandchildren; the Atarks is a Green Age mytheme of a terrifying wisdom monster echoing all over northern Genertela; Rashorana is basically a name attached to the Trio and repeated by the Lunars a lot without much else to it. And so forth.

[soltakss]

6 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Do you think there's a link between Jernotius and Rashorana?

To be honest, I can't remember much about him. I read about him in some of the Stafford Encyclopedia books, thought "Oh, that's nice" and then forgot about him. Sorry.

[Joerg]

12 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Do you think there's a link between Jernotius and Rashorana? They share some commonalities but I don't see anything that doesn't relate to Illumination (ignoring the external, like gender, etc.).

Jernotia is the archetype of walking in the other side's shoes, whichever issue may be concerned (although the issue with Daxdarius and Natha was a clear failure in this task).

Rashoran was toted as the Last Born Deity, or last created deity. Of the Celestial Court, I would guess, since the lesser deities elsewhere kept multiplying. Jernotia on the other hand is one of the most ancient deities in their part of the world, and almost has the function of the local incarnation of Glorantha and/or the Spike.

Rashoran may have been the coming of Vithelan mysticism to the Celestial Court of the Runes. The Vithelans had the mystic masters already from the beginning, every High God went to study with Oorduren for a bit, and many of the lesser beings of Eastern Myth like e.g. Kahar or Oorsu Sara had Oorduren or one of his disciples as their teachers (and ultimately another one as their nemesis, usually Mashunasan).

12 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I think the link between all these Illumination deities is just them sewn together by Red Goddess theologians and perhaps by their Pelandan predecessors. The story of Jernotius is a discrete myth narrative of a solid deity who is firmly ensconced in a pantheon, with children and grandchildren; the Atarks is a Green Age mytheme of a terrifying wisdom monster echoing all over northern Genertela; Rashorana is basically a name attached to the Trio and repeated by the Lunars a lot without much else to it. And so forth.

Sure, the Lunars did some massive syncretizing. Both Jernotia and Natha - opponents in the Daxdarius myth - as parts of Sedenya. Both about balance, but in very different and incompatible ways.

Rashoran is tied to the coming of Chaos (other than PreDark) to destroy the world, but also to overcome that destruction. Like Nysalor's, this was a teaching that cannot be conveyed as a meme. Rashoran may have been the bringer of paradox, or perhaps the bringer of the realisation of paradox. The last Green Age transition of the world before Entropy replaced Green Age.

[Qizilbashwoman]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Like Nysalor's, this was a teaching that cannot be conveyed as a meme.

Well I meant in the original sense of meme, "unit of culture". The Atarks stopped; there seems to be no more Atarks after the very early age; they are mentioned only as an incomprehensible opponent, a lurker in the darkness. Only one story makes it clear that the Atarks is the (Green Age deity-person)'s other, and it's in the same narrative that tells a story about how men and women are different, genitalia-wise,

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Well I meant in the original sense of meme, "unit of culture". The Atarks stopped; there seems to be no more Atarks after the very early age; they are mentioned only as an incomprehensible opponent, a lurker in the darkness. Only one story makes it clear that the Atarks is the (Green Age deity-person)'s other, and it's in the same narrative that tells a story about how men and women are different, genitalia-wise,

The Heortlings also have a really weird story about a monster that keeps devoring its young until they escape. It seems to describe the creation of the first living people (but not what kind, ie. whether mortals, gods, or something else), but also at the same time the emergence of such concepts of self, movement, otherness, and so on (depending on how much you read into it).

The story is almost entirely disconnected from the rest of the Orlanthi mythos, as far as I can tell, and more than anything reads like a children's story, but I'm wondering if it's not some kind of Green (or Creation) Age snippet of narrative that survived, and just seems almost incomprehensively weird due to the Green Age being... well, weird.

[metcalph]

5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The Heortlings also have a really weird story about a monster that keeps devoring its young until they escape. It seems to describe the creation of the first living people (but not what kind, ie. whether mortals, gods, or something else), but also at the same time the emergence of such concepts of self, movement, otherness, and so on (depending on how much you read into it).

I interpret as the creation of Glorantha from Chaos (names from Book of Heortling Mythology p17).

Great Eater - Chaos

Laster - Motion Rune

Kastinvoor - Conflict Rune

Basakuba - Fertility Rune

Vass - Glorantha.

 

 

[creativehum]

On 10/21/2019 at 3:34 PM, scott-martin said:

Greg was familiar with Eliade's The Sacred & The Profane, which some helpful angel has sampled HERE if you have already bought it or if you want to leaf through it before you buy. It's worth meditating on a few of the fragments...

Just wanted to say thank you for this. 

I understand that for some folks won't find it useful. But for me it was pure gold, coalescing a lot of my thoughts on this matter in one brief, solid post.

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

I interpret as the creation of Glorantha from Chaos (names from Book of Heortling Mythology p17).

Great Eater - Chaos

Laster - Motion Rune

Kastinvoor - Conflict Rune

Basakuba - Fertility Rune

Vass - Glorantha

Better still, is an elemental devolution.

Great Eater - Darkness

Laster - Water

Kastinvoor "It and its kin moved where they wanted to go, and never stayed in one place." - Storm

Basakuba the Bountiful "It did not move, and it stayed in one place."  - Earth

Vass - "it sent them [its children - PHM] everywhere, all around the world until they became so
numerous that no one could go anywhere without bothering them." - Fire/Light