Balazar deities

[soltakss]

13 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

do you run her mechanically as Eiritha?

No, completely differently.

Eiritha is the Goddess of herd beasts, of herds and herding. Hers is a cult of nomadic herders, they live off herds, they use herds for food, for shelter and for clothing. Eiritha is central to an Animal Nomad's life.

Rigitania is a Goddess of Beasts, of the Hunt, but not of Hunters. She provides beasts for hunting and embraces their spirits when they are killed correctly. She actually doesn't really care whether the Hunt is successful, or whether the beasts escape, she is the Beast Mother. She is also the Hunted, the Prey, the One Who Can be Caught and the One Who Escapes. Hunters who catch her can wrestle away some power over the beasts, perhaps a better way to track certain beasts, or control over a type of beast, or ability to sneak up on beasts.

So, Eiritha is central to the Animal Nomads of Prax and their way of life, but Rigitania is peripheral to the Votanki way of life, to them, Foundchild (Votank) is central.

[David Scott]

On 10/29/2019 at 3:07 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

I actually don't really understand Balazar very well, maybe someone can weigh in. The GtG isn't particularly helpful; it just says it's incredibly infertile.

The core reference is of course Griffin Mountain (classic). There's also the Gloranthan Classics version, that has more art and a few bits of the AH version Griffin Island.

If you don't have access, have a look at our page on Redbubble (you are going to want this as a duvet sooner or later) to see the map

in order of maps:

Guide page 709 - Dawn settlements, shows Arau. Votanki dawn settlement.

Guide page 126,  0 ST

Guide page 127, c. 265 ST Second Council

Guide page 130, 400 ST c. 400 ST Arkat & Nysalor. The forests were burned (Guide page 191) , elves retreat.

Guide page 132, c. 700 ST Rise of Empires. Look at the Votanki, they've also moved south. Notice the elf retreat into two groups and the rise of the Gork Trolls.

Guide page 134, c.900 ST ST Age of Empires. (791 Elder Wilds: Humans from Dragon Pass and dragonewts aided elves and local barbarians to drive all trolls and dwarves out of the Votanki lands.)

Guide page 136, c. 1100 ST Catastrophes. Elves recover.

Finally the modern Balazar map.or Guide page 192.

Overall this has always been a wooded land and the domain of Hearthmother (Earth Witch) than the Ernalda grain goddesses, except near the citadels.

 

[Joerg]

19 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Rigitania is a Goddess of Beasts, of the Hunt, but not of Hunters. She provides beasts for hunting and embraces their spirits when they are killed correctly. She actually doesn't really care whether the Hunt is successful, or whether the beasts escape, she is the Beast Mother. She is also the Hunted, the Prey, the One Who Can be Caught and the One Who Escapes. Hunters who catch her can wrestle away some power over the beasts, perhaps a better way to track certain beasts, or control over a type of beast, or ability to sneak up on beasts.

Griffin Mountain spells her name "Rigtaina", and actually gives her father as Foundchild, making her a quite minor figure. She is the interface to the Lady of the Wild who actually has all these functions and abilities, but Rigtaina herself comes across more like a boon companion of Artemis the Huntress. Obviously not doing the virgin track in her role as ancestress of the citadel lords.

Some Lunars might be in the process of proving her identity or correlation with Orogeria, the rising Blue Moon part of Sedenya's cycle.

19 minutes ago, soltakss said:

So, Eiritha is central to the Animal Nomads of Prax and their way of life, but Rigitania is peripheral to the Votanki way of life, to them, Foundchild (Votank) is central.

Rigtaina is the Balazar version of Sorana Tor, with Balazar the Hero fulfilling a role similar to Arim the Pauper for the founding of Tarsh.

Votanki the Founder (spelled Votanki in GM) is pretty similar to the Praxian Founders that manifest through the Cult of Waha, or at least his special rune magic is almost the same. He is the child of Hunter (Foundchild) and Hearth Mother. That does create a problem with Votank being known to the Dara Happans of the Gods Wall, unless we presume that Votanki is a reincarnation of Golden Age Votank/Ergesh.

Interestingly, the Elder Wilds had their own Council of All Races which joined the Unity Council only in 78 ST. That council definitely included the Aldryami grove of Eston, probably the Votanki of Arau (Good Howl), and with some likelihood the dragonewts and uz of the further Elder Wilds. Whether the Greatway Dwarves were part of the Elder Wilds council isn't clear, but there don't appear to have been other dwarf sites anywhere east or south of the Elf Sea before entering Genert's Wastelands.

The insistence of the Greatway dwarves to trade only with the lands to their north might be an indication that they originally belonged to the Elder Wilds Council and had not joined the Council of World Friends prior to 78 ST.

 

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Griffin Mountain spells her name "Rigtaina", and actually gives her father as Foundchild, making her a quite minor figure.

Rigtaina is harder on the ear than Rigitaina, but yes, I spell it differently.

I need to find where I read that she is Genert's daughter, perhaps it is such an old piece that it was never canon. Maybe it was in the unpublished Gloranthan Encyclopedia. Having her as Foundchild's wife makes more sense to me, but her being Genert's Granddaughter, as a daughter of the Lady of the Wild, is probably OK.

[Qizilbashwoman]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Rigtaina is harder on the ear than Rigitaina, but yes, I spell it differently.

I need to find where I read that she is Genert's daughter, perhaps it is such an old piece that it was never canon. Maybe it was in the unpublished Gloranthan Encyclopedia. Having her as Foundchild's wife makes more sense to me, but her being Genert's Granddaughter, as a daughter of the Lady of the Wild, is probably OK.

Well, the interesting thing is that there doesn't seem to be a daughter of the land in Balazar, right? Perhaps she died in the War and Rigtaina mantled her. Aldrya means the lands aren't barren, of course, but little agriculture flourishes: the land is for the animals.

[Qizilbashwoman]

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

If you don't have access, have a look at our page on Redbubble (you are going to want this as a duvet sooner or later) to see the map

What I need as a duvet is a map of the Lunar Empire so I can remember where everything is, hahaha

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

What I need as a duvet is a map of the Lunar Empire so I can remember where everything is, hahaha

https://www.redbubble.com/people/chaosium/works/23263476-southern-peloria-map-by-darya-makarava?p=duvet-cover&rbs=78ff9047-dd40-470f-ba95-8533014de377&ref=similar_products&size=king

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by David Scott

[Joerg]

56 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Well, the interesting thing is that there doesn't seem to be a daughter of the land in Balazar, right? Perhaps she died in the War and Rigtaina mantled her. Aldrya means the lands aren't barren, of course, but little agriculture flourishes: the land is for the animals.

We don't have much of an idea what went on in the Elder Wilds prior to the advance and retreat of the Chaos horde around the Unity Battle. The only civilization we know about from the region are the Elder Giants, who appear to be descendants of Annilla in her pre-Lunar incarnation. I am not clear about when and where from the Gork trolls arrived, and the lack of sedentary dragonewts might even predate the EWF and its foes.

It is interesting that the Elder Wilds appear to have awakened from the Greater Darkness on their own when groups like the Hagolings did not. That, or the aldryami of Elstos received a visit by Awakeners without the rest of the Council learning about it.

The Elder Wilds and the Redlands don't appear to suffer as significantly from Genert's death as the Wastes south of the Snowline do. While the Zola Fel Valley enables some form of agriculture much like the oases do, the rest of Prax doesn't appear to do so. Oraya and the Redlands don't hinder any dry farming, and the Zarkos River even allows rice farming. The Zola Fel delta may have allowed rice farming, too, when the Teshnans settled there on the eve of Alavan Argay, but there doesn't appear to be any rice farming in the Grantlands.

I don't think that the Zola Fel valley has a grain goddess any more than the rest of Prax, but Orlanthi agriculture works fairly well with a little irrigation. (It may help that horses aren't essential for Orlanthi agriculture. Or for anybody's agriculture in Glorantha.)

Then what makes agriculture so difficult in Balazar?

 

Even during the Inhuman Occupation, the durulz were able to maintain their version of agriculture in the lands emptied of humans, and at times reclaimed by the Aldryami. That happened in a time when Tara, the Lady of the Wild, was the sovereignty representative of Kero Fin, the mother of those lands. It is possible that the Kitori practiced agriculture, too, when in human shape - their lands around Vanntar definitely were suited for that.

Then what is it that makes Balazar so resistant not just to the plow, but even to the digging stick of slash-and-burn horticulture?

Looking for a magical explanation, here. Geologically and ecologically I have an idea what may be limiting the fertility of Balazar - the formation of podzol and hardpan. Let's ignore that hardpan is a potential iron ore - I don't think that Gloranthan iron is melted from either oxidic or sulphidic ores. But hardpan might have a myth of being the fertile earth's scar tissue - only why does it occur preferredly in green elf forest territory? And what about the deciduous parts of the Elder Wilds forests?

The presence of coniferous forests may of course be a reaction to the scarification of the fertile earth in the region. But that leaves us with the question about the nature of that scar.

One far-fetched myth I can think of is Annilla giving birth to the dead child of her slain giant husband. Any other ideas?

[Qizilbashwoman]

25 minutes ago, David Scott said:

https://www.redbubble.com/people/chaosium/works/23263476-southern-peloria-map-by-darya-makarava?p=duvet-cover&rbs=78ff9047-dd40-470f-ba95-8533014de377&ref=similar_products&size=king

 

no no that's only the bit I know, that's the easy bits, Raccoon City and Sylila and Aggar and Holay-Tarsh! I want Peloria and Elz Ast and First Blessed and the like.

21 minutes ago, Joerg said:

One far-fetched myth I can think of is Annilla giving birth to the dead child of her slain giant husband. Any other ideas?

That's was the Blue Moon, though.

I don't think Prax ever had a land goddess; it didn't suffer a loss because Genert's Garden was there and spirits and gods like Ronanke and the like enabled its life-giving soils. When Genert was dismembered, only shards remained, the oases.

But Zola Fel brings life through Water, and you can also worship spirits and gods for blessings. There's a lack of rain, and the soil isn't great, but Hon-Eel's creepy Bless Maize worked just fine before the Lunar settlements were annihilated. It's not barren in Prax proper because Genert is only sort of dead.

The lack of fertility in the desolate areas east of Prax is due to Chaos taint, not lack of land goddess, AFAIK.

I still think the lack of a land deity is a problem in the greater Balazar region. The scarring is likely from that and from the Elfburn. Sorana - sorry, Rigtaina - plugging the hole kept the land alive, but limited its usability for agriculture, unlike in Prax. The Earth Witch lets limited agriculture work - probably focused on small, rich gardens with local tubers, spices, and medicines for healers and shamans. This is the definition of Mesolithic gardening; small proto-agriculture, selectively encouraging better foodstuffs in a local area (finding the best potato plants in the area and putting them in one area with the weeds cleared out so you can come back later and harvest).

One of the first "encouraged" plants was ... marijuana. The first domesticated animal was the reindeer! (Dogs are commensals and date to before we were H. sapiens sapiens.)

Edited November 2, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

One far-fetched myth I can think of is Annilla giving birth to the dead child of her slain giant husband. Any other ideas?

Something with the Giants of the Eastern Rockwoods using some aspect of the land's fertility to keep off a Chaos invasion? Not supported by any textual evidence, and rather counter to how Genert's land (to the south) got invaded (unless Chaos went around rather than over - but then in all likelihood they went everywhere).

As Qizilbashwoman said, the are may simply never have been agriculturally fertile. Perhaps for some Green Age idiosyncratically mythical reason. Maybe, again, the Giants or land goddess rejected the deliberate growing of crops when the Green Age turned to the Golden Age. Maybe it's some kind of atavistic holdout in that respect. I'm just speculating, really.

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

... but little agriculture flourishes: the land is for the animals.

Well... the land is for the wilds.  Animals and (wild) plants.

Which, runically speaking, seems to trend away from agriculture but not plants, so...

Disorder (non-harmony, no neat crops & fields)?

Weak Man-rune, ag being human/etc version of going heavily into plants?

  

[Qizilbashwoman]

20 minutes ago, g33k said:

Well... the land is for the wilds.  Animals and (wild) plants.

Which, runically speaking, seems to trend away from agriculture but not plants, so...

Disorder (non-harmony, no neat crops & fields)?

Weak Man-rune, ag being human/etc version of going heavily into plants?  

Arir is much the same and there's no real "reason" for it. Odayla and Orogeria are the favored goddesses there, depending on your ethnic background, although Pelorians revere One Two (Ourania) and Her Twin Emanations as "high" gods and Theyalans worship Orlanth. But both live very similar lives and both initiate their female children as "bearlings", a term that appears in Pelorian as deneg eria and corresponds to the Voria age of Ernalda. Ernalda seems to be identified with Odayla entirely.

[davecake]

On 11/1/2019 at 6:25 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

do you run her mechanically as Eiritha?

I don’t. Eiritha is very much a herd animal goddess.

I run Rigitaina as a land goddess minus Bless Crops. 

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Arir is much the same and there's no real "reason" for it. Odayla and Orogeria are the favored goddesses there, depending on your ethnic background, although Pelorians revere One Two (Ourania) and Her Twin Emanations as "high" gods and Theyalans worship Orlanth. But both live very similar lives and both initiate their female children as "bearlings", a term that appears in Pelorian as deneg eria and corresponds to the Voria age of Ernalda. Ernalda seems to be identified with Odayla entirely.

Arir still is an agricultural region, raising oats in the highlands and rice in the river valleys. Before the Yolp Mountains were raised, Arir was part of Suvaria, with a wetlands-oriented agricultural culture. Otherwise, the region retains ancient traditions of the first volcano worshipers, such as going naked.

The Votanki lands are different. I am not even convinced about mesolithic horticulture in this place, the only kind of farming I see is fire-farming - the technology that created the Australian outback, and which cultivated the European forests before the arrival of the Beaker folk bringing agriculture into the clearings formed by fire-farming.

What Balazar and Arir have in common apart from a hunting tradition is that both are quite suitable for horse herds and their warlords. Doblian was an independent stronghold of the horse warlords even after Sheng's demise, and it took Hon-eel's efforts to overcome them. Balazar was inhabited by the Opili horse tribe during Sheng's supremacy, when not even the presence of the griffins kept the horsefolk away. The Opili managed to keep out of much of the conflicts of Sheng, raiding Saird and Tarsh (and being counter-raided). Unlike the horse warlords who got trapped in the western provinces of Peloria and subsequently decimated, the Opili had no problem to reach the Redlands and their Pentan homeland after that disaster. They probably lost that strength in the Night of Horrors, though.

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

42 minutes ago, Joerg said:

the arrival of the Beaker folk bringing agriculture into the clearings

hey the real arrival was the l i n e a r b a n d k e r a m i k; the beaker folk was a crucial moment in european prehistory but was bronze age stuff. the lbk came from anatolia in the early neolithic. they weren't using slash-and-burn!

"The difference between a crop and a weed in LBK contexts is the frequency." (emmer wheat, einkorn wheat, pease, lentils, poppies, flax, hemp)

Edited November 3, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Joerg]

On 11/3/2019 at 7:38 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

hey the real arrival was the l i n e a r b a n d k e r a m i k; the beaker folk was a crucial moment in european prehistory but was bronze age stuff. the lbk came from anatolia in the early neolithic. they weren't using slash-and-burn!

Hah. Where I live, the Ertebølle culture of sedentary fisherfolk still was dominant then, and agriculture came with the Beaker folk. Much like it was the case for the British isles. Comparatively ittle is known about these pre-Beaker folk in my region (more for Denmark) as their homes now lie a few meters below the water.

 

On 11/3/2019 at 7:38 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

"The difference between a crop and a weed in LBK contexts is the frequency." (emmer wheat, einkorn wheat, pease, lentils, poppies, flax, hemp)

The same can be said for the stomach content of the Tollund man, a bog mummy from Denmark. He had a porridge of grain and grass seeds as his last meal. Two researchers made the experiment and had a porridge made with those ingredients. One of them (a Dane IIRC) thought that he might have been willing to volunteer as a sacrifice after that meal. The other, apparently British, just had the porridge.

A cereal (or pseudo-cereal) is of course nothing but a cultivated weed, and cultivating the various crops available to mankind now is a cultural achievement that is badly under-appreciated.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Europe is a big place, and material trends moved to different areas at different times - probably best to move beyond archaeological specificities if it's to be applied to Balazar/southern Peloria.

[Ultor]

On 11/2/2019 at 3:22 PM, Joerg said:

One far-fetched myth I can think of is Annilla giving birth to the dead child of her slain giant husband. Any other ideas?

A long time ago I had an idea for "The Bull Hunt of Murharzarm" that was meant to be a riff on the Calydonian Boar Hunt and involve a lot of demigods and heroes. The idea was that some Great Bull had gone on a rampage, slaying the local goddess of the land and destroying so much else he created the Elder Wilds. The Emperor therefore sent out a call for heroes to stop it. I never worked it up, however.

[soltakss]

On 11/8/2019 at 6:59 PM, Ultor said:

A long time ago I had an idea for "The Bull Hunt of Murharzarm" that was meant to be a riff on the Calydonian Boar Hunt and involve a lot of demigods and heroes. The idea was that some Great Bull had gone on a rampage, slaying the local goddess of the land and destroying so much else he created the Elder Wilds. The Emperor therefore sent out a call for heroes to stop it. I never worked it up, however.

Sounds like a good target for The Great Hunt in Sacred Time, or perhaps a version of The Great Hunt outside Sacred Time as a HeroQuest.

[Leingod]

I've recently been thinking about and writing ideas and notes for a possible Balazar campaign (that will almost certainly go nowhere), and I decided I might at least share some of my own interpretations on the possible roles, powers, etc. of the various deities and spirits involved. I'll note that my interest and familiarity lies more in HeroQuest than RuneQuest, so I'm not really going to be going into specifics on crunch.

Balazar

As written, Balazar is stated to "sometimes" be treated as a sub-cult of Yelmalio, but for my own purposes I tend to think of him more as primarily the sub-cult, where he'd be sort of like a Yelmalian version of the sub-cult of Orlanth Rex (possibly complete with Mastery Rune, or else maybe keyed off the Truth Rune): His role and magic are defined mostly in terms of leading a clan or tribe, and full membership is restricted to chieftains and kings. Otherwise, he's a bit like Sartar; there's local holidays and ceremonies where everyone worships him, but you don't get any spells out of it or anything.

Brother Dog

I'd actually considered making Brother Dog the main spirit tradition among the Balazarings, given his sheer ubiquity and the deep connection between Balazarings and their dogs, or maybe even making him more of a liminal god/spirit figure modeled after Odayla. Also, I'd probably move Brother Dog's "brotherly" relationship from Foundchild to Votank, but that's just personal preference.

Durbaddath

In The Glorious Re-Ascent of Yelm it's claimed that Durbaddath is the father of Votank, whom Plentonius misidentified as Ergesh, and that Durbaddath has worshipers in Balazar; in Griffin Mountain it is instead claimed that Votank is the son of Foundchild, and there's no mention anywhere of Durbaddath or even of lions. My way of reconciling that would be to note that Durbaddath seems to have at least some aspects of a hunting god in Dara Happa (given that one of his titles is “Hunter in the Celestial Forest”), so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch IMO to suppose the Dara Happans just think of Foundchild and Votank as local names for the gods they know as Durbaddath and Ergesh.

Were I to give him worshipers in Balazar as his own god, though, I imagine the Balazarings would focus on him as a great champion and fighter against the slave-taking imperials and deny the notion that he gave up his son as a slave and became a loyal servant, perhaps telling a story where he gives up his human head for a lion's to give him the strength to fight the emperor or something. And in the citadels maybe as something more akin to a god like Humakt, a fearsome death-dealing champion and full-time warrior?

Firshala

Obviously this one is even more “My Glorantha Varies” than any other, but, inspired by the discussions on whether the Balazarings practice what's known as fire-stick farming/cultural burning, and also the supposition that perhaps it was Firshala who burned down the old elf forest and the statement in the book that she has “no love” for the cult of Aldrya (though that doesn't quite work with the timeline; Firshala was imprisoned during the Gods War, while the forests were burned within Time), I would posit that it's Firshala who would have been the goddess/spirit (she's called both even though she has the Spirit Rune) who would have given the Votanki that power, and that perhaps the Aldryami imprisoned her preemptively to make sure that never happened, only for their forest to get burned up by some unrelated party entirely later on. Which may be the source of some tension regarding Rigtaina...

I suppose that would also be enough to give her an association with the Life/Fertility Rune as well as her two stated ones. Sort of like a much nicer and more constructive Oakfed.

Foundchild

I feel like Foundchild would deserve some extra features as worshiped by the Balazarings to account for the fact that he isn't just their hunter god, but a Waha-like figure as the primary man's god who defined how the vast majority of men live and survive. On the other hand, maybe it's fine as-is and you'd just need maybe a few tweaks to his associated cults, since none of the ones RuneQuest gives him (Odayla, Waha, Yinkin) are likely to be present or as friendly (what with the dogs) up in Balazar.

Hearthmother

Now, the general consensus here has seemed to be either that Hearthmother is a Mahome-like figure or else is more or less a local version of the Earth Witch tradition in the vein of Serdrodosa. Personally, I would say she's not as limited as the former and doesn't have as strong an association with Earth as the latter (heck, she lacks the Earth Rune entirely according to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure). She's associated with foraging for nourishment, tending the hearth, taking care of the sick and the young, giving hope to the community in hard times, etc., but there's no really strong elemental associations other than the “hearth” aspect. Sort of like Dendara, she's defined largely by the crafts and duties of a woman in the society that worships her, rather than by deeper mysteries or powers as a conduit for the Great Earth Goddess when she's otherwise asleep in the vein of Serdrodosa. Sort of like if you had Ernalda but with even more emphasis on her nature as the “spiritual earth” to the near-exclusion of powers related to physical Earth that don't extend past, say, knowing where to find the best berries and herbs and such.

In HeroQuest terms, I'd also make both Foundchild and Hearthmother much like Waha and Eiritha in that they are typically worshiped through a spirit tradition, but can be approached theistically, too. In fact that would probably be the general trend for Balazaring outside of the citadels, with only the tribal centers seeing a lot of purely theistic worship.

Mralota

Basically just a much more limited form of Eiritha who can only deal with pigs.

Rigtaina

Essentially a local version of the Lady of the Wild who is also the local sovereignty goddess in the vein of Sorana Tor/Kero Fin. So, not really likely to be worshiped in her own right, but hey, Kero Fin apparently has about 250 initiates/devotees according to Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, so the option might be there anyway.

Were it to come up, I'd probably name her as the daughter of Foundchild by Aldrya. This would almost certainly not be common knowledge among the Balazarings, and in fact they might end up having a schism over it kind of like the Cenala controversy in Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind.

Votank

I'd make him more or less synonymous with the ancestor cult of Daka Fal, with all the powers and such that entails, though of course he's also got strong associations with Foundchild, Hearthmother, and Brother Dog. As stated before, I'd probably move the association of Brother Dog to Votank rather than Foundchild, but that's just a personal thing; I like the idea that each of Votank's 25 sons left home with a litter of Brother Dog's own progeny as his own companions.

Yelmalio

No real changes needing to be made here. Though spare a thought for any poor initiate who gets the geas to only ever love Earth cultists if you, like me, decide Hearthmother doesn't cut it. Heck, maybe that's why Balazar married Rigtaina; she was the only real Earth cultist within a hundred miles who wasn't made of wood!

Edited May 12, 2020 by Leingod

[Jeff]

On 10/24/2019 at 1:09 AM, galafrone said:

Hi all

i am running a balazar campaign and i am in a situation where i need to clarify to myself how to represent some balazar deities in terms of RQG

yelmalio, and foundchild are easy, they are what they are

balazar is a hero-cult (like pavis ? like a subcult of yelmalio ?) there is at least 1 NPC (sylvanti brighteyes, in dykene) that is both a priest of yelmalio and balazar, so this can be the right way to portrait him

then we have Hearthmother. In the gods and goddesses section i asked who she could have been, and i got a couple of answers "she is mahome/she is a lowfire".

But reading both the gods and goddesses preview (from gencon 2018) and griffin mountain (both editions) i cant think at her as a measly mahome

In GM she teaches cooking, plant lore, sewing, first aid, treat disease and the spiritic spells healing, bladesharp, befuddle, glue, mobility, shimmer… . Mahome hasnt priestesses, it's considered an associate deity of some earth goddess (Ernalda, dendara) so i can't reconcile the new mahome with HearthMother. HM is more than Mahome. But … how ?

Votank… [edit] Is a hero/god cult, basically Daka Fal reduced 

and lastly, RIGTAINA, the dryad daughter of foundchild and spouse of balazar.. a spirit cult ?

thanks for any suggestion from you fellas

 

 

Let's make it easy:
Yelmalio and Foundchild, as per RQG.

Balazar is a subcult of Yelmalio.

Hearthmother is a woman's shamanic society with Mahome as a spirit cult (if I recall correctly).

Votank is a Daka Fal ancestor.

Rigtaina is a spirit cult.

Horned Man is extremely important for the Balazarings.

[M Helsdon]

10 hours ago, Leingod said:

In The Glorious Re-Ascent of Yelm it's claimed that Durbaddath is the father of Votank, whom Plentonius misidentified as Ergesh, and that Durbaddath has worshipers in Balazar; in Griffin Mountain it is instead claimed that Votank is the son of Foundchild, and there's no mention anywhere of Durbaddath or even of lions.

My understanding is that GRoY is an in-world document and prone to Dara Happan cultural bias, so its claims need to be treated very warily.

It's a bit like taking, for example, Roman descriptions of Germanic cults as accurate - such as Tacitus declaring that they worshiped Mercury, which later commentators identified as Woden - and highly suspect.

The Balazarings appear to have no knowledge of Durbaddath any more than the ancient Germans did of Mercury.

So if you want a cult of the Lion God in Balazar, you can, YGWV, but it is otherwise propaganda. There are saber-toothed sakkar in Balazar, but it it very unlikely that anyone there venerates the god Sakkar.

[Leingod]

6 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

My understanding is that GRoY is an in-world document and prone to Dara Happan cultural bias, so its claims need to be treated very warily.

It's a bit like taking, for example, Roman descriptions of Germanic cults as accurate - such as Tacitus declaring that they worshiped Mercury, which later commentators identified as Woden - and highly suspect.

The Balazarings appear to have no knowledge of Durbaddath any more than the ancient Germans did of Mercury.

So if you want a cult of the Lion God in Balazar, you can, YGWV, but it is otherwise propaganda. There are saber-toothed sakkar in Balazar, but it it very unlikely that anyone there venerates the god Sakkar.

Yeah, I noted right below the part you quote that it could well be a case of Plentonius identifying Foundchild and Votank as Durbaddath and Ergesh, and then just suggested some ideas if someone wanted it anyway.