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The Colymar Campaign and the Star Heart


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1 hour ago, Minlister said:

I absolutely agree, all this paraphernalia is useless as gamers are adults able to talk. Or we will end up playing with our lawyers in backseats and helmet in case of nasty dice bounces... I play since 1982 and I have never encountered any real problem.

I think you misunderstood my point - there are times when tools like this aren't necessary, sure, but there might be times when they are very useful and help people avoid unnecessary friction. And there might be times when even having these tools won't help a group that has worse problems. In any case, it's not necessary to present these as some kind of stand-in for the wider American Culture Wars or whatever. They're as useful as the people using them want them to be.

 

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13 hours ago, Minlister said:

I absolutely agree, all this paraphernalia is useless as gamers are adults able to talk. Or we will end up playing with our lawyers in backseats and helmet in case of nasty dice bounces... I play since 1982 and I have never encountered any real problem.

I've played since 1977... and I have encountered such problems (thankfully, only a very few times).

* I have been asked to intervene by a woman who felt unable to deal with a harasser, back in the 80's.  Sounds like a very X-Card-y situation, in retrospect:  she wasn't able to address the issue with the problem person.  I don't know if there was anyone else she could/would have turned to if I wasn't there; I expect she would have just left.

* I was REALLY unhappy & uncomfortable, many years ago, with a GM who forced every PC to roll on some rando-table they had, that imposed sundry personality quirks and flaws (with a strong emphasis on sexual topics); I only played in that group because I wanted to see some unfamiliar mechanics in play, and I left after a few sessions).  I would have been VERY happy with an X-Card.

* Somewhere in ... hmm... the late 90s? (hard to pin down the date) ... I was about to speak up when the GM went too far (with rape as simile for an invasive mind-scan spell), but several other people at the table beat me to it; later, at another game / another table, that person went too far and was kicked out of the group (and in fact several friendships ended that night).  Would the X-Card have helped there...?  I'm not sure; I don't think so... but I do think Lines/Veils could have helped, could have addressed some of the issues earlier, more smoothly & gracefully.

* I've personally spoken to 3 different women whose FIRST experience of gaming & gamer culture was of crude sexual humor (that felt to them like harassment), and they either didn't join or left after the first session or two, despite being very interested.  I have read similar accounts online, from several other women (and a couple of accounts by gay guys who left to avoid homophobia).I honestly doubt that the gamers at those tables ever even realized that they KEPT AWAY other would-be gamers, or chased away gamers who had joined them (and I wonder now, about those times when someone gamed only once at my games... did something happen I didn't recognize?)

Would these "safety tools" have helped?  Well, not if those folks had never sat down at the tables... except MAYBE:  because just the idea that such tools may exist, may be used, may be needed at some tables?  Just that awareness may help... 

Except if you're so busy denying that they could EVER be useful or appropriate, busy resenting that they even exist; and ridiculing them, or the people who like them.

 

Edited by g33k
an issue I had forgotten
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Except if you're so busy denying that they could EVER be useful or appropriate, busy resenting that they even exist; and ridiculing them, or the people who like them.

X-card to that.

@g33k Ok, I took some time in order not to answer on the same tune. My only point is that I think that developing formal tools to regulate interactions between people will be detrimental in the long run. No more, no less. There are a lot of things with different effects on the short and long run. 

@Sir_Godspeed  I did not have the American culture wars in mind, please do not read more in my posts than what I write.  

Edited by Minlister
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7 hours ago, g33k said:

except MAYBE:  because just the idea that such tools may exist, may be used, may be needed at some tables?  Just that awareness may help...

Yeah exactly -- I don't think that, say, the typical GM who flirts with the female players would use the X-Card system anyway. Only reasonable adults would use X-Cards, and reasonable adults don't need X-Cards, apart from (like I said before) the easy way to signal that, yes, they're reasonable adults, which might be incredibly valuable for people who did have big issues in the past, and want an easy way to know if a gaming group is ok to join. The existence of X-Cards however boosted the awareness of a problem that wasn't discussed much in a past, so that's valuable too.

Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to  The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog !

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4 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

... the easy way to signal that, yes, they're reasonable adults, which might be incredibly valuable for people who did have big issues in the past, and want an easy way to know if a gaming group is ok to join.

This, very much. The GM is saying, "If you say something is bad for you in a significant way, you can trust that I will stop it, no questions asked. I respect and trust your judgement regarding your own well being to the point that you don't even need to explain or justify it to me. In sharing this power over the game with you, I am also trusting you to use it responsibly, just as I strive to do." That's a powerful pact.

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This, very much. The GM is saying, "If you say something is bad for you in a significant way, you can trust that I will stop it, no questions asked. I respect and trust your judgement regarding your own well being to the point that you don't even need to explain or justify it to me. In sharing this power over the game with you, I am also trusting you to use it responsibly, just as I strive to do." That's a powerful pact.

@JonL

But this is the very cornerstone of any game between adults, I don't see the point in spelling it out. When I meet someone new, I say "hello", not "hello, please note that I will offer you all due courtesy and that I will respect you rights and opinions and try to do my best not to trigger traumatic memories". 

And spelling it out doesn't offer any guarantee that it will be the case. 

 

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Just now, Minlister said:

But this is the very cornerstone of any game between adults, I don't see the point in spelling it out. When I meet someone new, I say "hello", not "hello, please note that I will offer you all due courtesy and that I will respect you rights and opinions and try to do my best not to trigger traumatic memories". 

However much that should be something of a given, the repeated bad experiences many people had that led to the development of explicit safety tools demonstrate the value of spelling such things out. If everybody always handled this stuff as well as we might like, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

9 minutes ago, Minlister said:

And spelling it out doesn't offer any guarantee that it will be the case. 

It is giving one's word. No more, no less.

Oathbreakers may find themselves unwelcome in places and groups that care about these things though.

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13 minutes ago, JonL said:

However much that should be something of a given, the repeated bad experiences many people had that led to the development of explicit safety tools demonstrate the value of spelling such things out. If everybody always handled this stuff as well as we might like, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

Reminds me of my mother’s old chestnut:

Quote

and this is why we can’t have nice things...

(I had much larger feet and hands then I shoulda had as a youth... gangly and dagerous!)

Edited by Bill the barbarian

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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7 hours ago, Minlister said:

@Sir_Godspeed  I did not have the American culture wars in mind, please do not read more in my posts than what I write.  

That's fair, and I will not - but if the term "safe space" hasn't been uttered yet, with a sneering tone, in this thread yet by someone, then I'm positively surprised.

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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2 hours ago, Minlister said:

When I meet someone new, I say "hello", not "hello, please note that I will offer you all due courtesy and that I will respect you rights and opinions and try to do my best not to trigger traumatic memories".

Agreed. I'd never do that when I met someone, either.

However, when I was running demo games for modern miniature wargames at conventions, I made sure that the people playing knew what the game was about and what things might happen so they could take a pass if they wanted. I didn't want someone who'd lost a real friend or relative to an IED to be blindsided by an IED card getting drawn in the game and I certainly didn't want that to happen to someone who'd been on the receiving end of an IED (lots of servicemen and women were attracted to our tables).

I feel the same applies to sitting down with a bunch of folks for a role-playing setting. I don't think you need to go to any special lengths to let people know that their actual feelings are more important than a bunch of make-believe hoo-hah. I usually say something like, "Hey, some rough stuff might happen tonight. As always, if something bugs you too much, let me know and we'll work it out." 

I feel like we tend to go down rabbit holes on stuff like this. Whenever I'm in doubt, I try to think back to something my dear old Dad told me, "Don't be a jerk." He worded it slightly differently, but I'm trying to clean up my language these days. ;)

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6 hours ago, Minlister said:

X-card to that.

OK (I mean... this isn't a RPG session where we've all agreed to the X-Card, but this is a great example, so I'm fine to roll with it).  As per the X-card, you don't have to explain further, you're under no obligation; but you are allowed to.  And if I find your use of the X-Card ambiguous (which I do) then I'm supposed to ask for clarification.

May I ask:  what specifically are you X-Carding?  What topic or tangent or detail or.... or whatever?

Or was it just a rhetorical "I disagree"?  In which case, of course, it's NOT an X-Card, and the exercise is pointless...  Which is its own whole lesson, about how NOT to use an X-Card...  😉

 

(Note here -- I said something, you X-Card'ed; so you are claiming some distressing content that you want stopped; I don't understand in detail, don't know WHAT to stop, so I ask for clarification.  This is all per normal X-Card.  Note further that we each now have a certain common frame of understanding & expectation about proceeding -- I understand you have found something distressing enough to X-Card, and you understand that I don't have enough details to reliably avoid further distressing you; but we both know the X-Card is in play, which informs how we approach this.)

 

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On 11/4/2019 at 2:29 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

they don't only target female animals

the original Broo was "they rape women and the un-abortionable monster rips its way out of the womb, killing you". We don't, uh, have that anymore because that is nightmare fuel.

Now they are still horrible monsters, but they have dicks that work like stingers. Anyone gets stung, they get a foetus IN THEIR BODY. You can cut or magic it out. Body horror but rape metaphor.

They never have  only attacked females. From your tone it is obvious  you are just projecting modern progressive view points.  From the first major description way back in Borderlands it has stated  that Broos implant their larvae in any living thing that  has a cavity.

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8 hours ago, dvdmacateer said:

Yeah it sucks that you don't like something and chose to misrepresent it to bolster you opinion.  You then double down on it by using the gaming version of Godwin's Law Orcs = African Americans.  

I think this thread has wandered a long way off the path of discussing the Star Heart in the Colymar Campaign. You all can make new threads of course, but try to stick to the original point of the thread.

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39 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I think this thread has wandered a long way off the path of discussing the Star Heart in the Colymar Campaign. You all can make new threads of course, but try to stick to the original

9 hours ago, dvdmacateer said:

Yeah it sucks that you don't like something and chose to misrepresent it to bolster you opinion.  You then double down on it by using the gaming version of Godwin's Law Orcs = African Americans.  

I hope some attention is paid to the allegations just made right there @Trifletraxor because yeehaw what on God's Green Earth

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