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Algesan

Classic Fantasy Questions

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After doing some playtest fights, a few questions popped up:

1) Does the +5% Combat bonus for the melee types count towards their Rank?
2) For Fighters, do the Shield Specialization (+10% Combat Style when using shield) and Melee Weapon X Specialization (+10% Combat Style when using Melee Weapon X) stack, giving an additional +20% to Combat Style when fighting with Melee Weapon X & Shield?
 

 

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12 minutes ago, Algesan said:

After doing some playtest fights, a few questions popped up:

1) Does the +5% Combat bonus for the melee types count towards their Rank?
2) For Fighters, do the Shield Specialization (+10% Combat Style when using shield) and Melee Weapon X Specialization (+10% Combat Style when using Melee Weapon X) stack, giving an additional +20% to Combat Style when fighting with Melee Weapon X & Shield?
 

 

1) no

2) no

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On 11/4/2019 at 8:52 PM, Raleel said:

1) no

2) no

Thanks.  First answer as expected (had a generated higher rank character who happened to qualify for the next rank based on the +5 CS bonus and another skill).

Second one, not so much.  The system ate a longer post where I gave my qualifications to speak on this subject and why shields are far, far deadlier IRL than the standard RPG rule constructs allow.  IMO, the official rule should either be the +20 (they really are two different skills and shield use mostly doesn't change regardless of the weapon) OR that the shield spec +10 should be either Parry only or Parry + Offensive shield strikes.  The latter better shows the true combat effects of shields.  Maybe only allow learning one size category of base shield.  There is a large difference between using a buckler and using a kite (I've done both). 

The tiniest shield, the buckler, if used offensively hits harder than the best brass knuckles you can buy...

Think about why cops only use riot shields defensively: admitted lack of training & they don't want to start raising the casualty rate for rioters.

Biggest pushback I can see... for fighters, it would make buying one level of Shield Spec a virtual lock for every build.  We cannot see any reason not to end up with Shield spec by Rank 2.  Especially since if you want the "light fighter" build, disallow the Shield Spec and allow the Dual Weapon spec from rangers.

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You are free to do as you like in your game of course, but it has been asked (by me) and I was told nope :) 

Mythras takes the model to not break out shield use too much. It already is very strong in Mythras compared to most other RPGs, there is hardly a need to incentivize it more. 

truth, the design mechanism boards are probably a better place for this discussion. Several folks on there are far more knowledgeable about shields and how they are used in combat than I, and the author of classic fantasy is on there much more :)

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On 11/8/2019 at 8:33 AM, Raleel said:

You are free to do as you like in your game of course, but it has been asked (by me) and I was told nope :) 

Mythras takes the model to not break out shield use too much. It already is very strong in Mythras compared to most other RPGs, there is hardly a need to incentivize it more. 

truth, the design mechanism boards are probably a better place for this discussion. Several folks on there are far more knowledgeable about shields and how they are used in combat than I, and the author of classic fantasy is on there much more :)

Heh, part of the post that got eaten was that I didn't want to do the "do what you want in your game" excuse.  I find it funny and annoying because I learned to play and GM using the OD&D ruleset, which required it because it was broken in so many ways.

It is a good position because the purpose is mainly defensive and, totally IMO, if we actually could go and watch well trained fighters who grew up trained in these martial arts, I bet there are counters to offensive shield use that make it far less useful than we find it today. 

I may go look there then, although the logic you gave me is one that makes sense, because despite how potentially damaging a shield strike can be, you don't find it as a primary attack option in any of the historical treatises we have. 

Thanks.
 

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3 hours ago, Algesan said:

I may go look there then, although the logic you gave me is one that makes sense, because despite how potentially damaging a shield strike can be, you don't find it as a primary attack option in any of the historical treatises we have. 

I think mostly the issue is that it gives a stacking bonus with all of your primary attack and defense at that point. It is, after all, specialization in a particular weapon. I could easily see some amalgam out of this, where if you take weapon specialization and shield specialization, you have access to a mastery+ line that allows you do to this sort of thing. Like... Sword and Board Mastery - you must be specialized in a sword and the shield to gain this mastery. Mastery in this allows those specialization bonuses to stack, etc. I did up something like this for dual weapon specialization.

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