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Sir_Godspeed

Who is Haran Vor?

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In the Book of Heortling Mythology, under the entry of Sorana Tor (described there as the physical manifestation of Ana Gor, who is described as the goddess of human sacrifice, though elsewhere she is also described as a name for Maran Gor - these aren't mutually exclusive, I take it) - we find a comment by Sorana Tor referring to how the blood of someone named Haran Vor falling in the ground at her temple.

I haven't been able to find any references to this Haran Vor elsewhere (and neither for "Haranvor", which I thought might be a name).

My initial instinct was that it was some mythical Orlanthi king, or maybe an enemy of the Earth Goddesses, but then I considered whether it could be another name for Grandfather Mortal - increasing the significance of the death/sacrifice there.

Anyone know?

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Havan Vor is Grandfather Mortal in his role as judge of the dead. Gloranthan spelling is not always consistent.

Now what wonder is how the name Havan Vor differs from Darhudan in meaning and connotations.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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Ah, so one of my hunches seem to have been on the right track.

I wonder if this story cited is different from the more commonly cited story of how Eurmal killed Grandfather Mortal. I wonder if he achieved Death through Earth Sacrifice (possibly one gone awry - ie. not resulting in resurrection or rebirth as it otherwise would have) in this version.

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1 minute ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Ah, so one of my hunches seem to have been on the right track.

I wonder if this story cited is different from the more commonly cited story of how Eurmal killed Grandfather Mortal. I wonder if he achieved Death through Earth Sacrifice (possibly one gone awry - ie. not resulting in resurrection or rebirth as it otherwise would have) in this version.

I believe the idea is that his blood spilled there at the Shaker Temple in his regular death story, creating mythical resonance for bloodletting.

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1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Havan Vor is Grandfather Mortal in his role as judge of the dead. Gloranthan spelling is not always consistent.

Now what wonder is how the name Havan Vor differs from Darhudan in meaning and connotations.

I am pretty certain that either names are titles.

 Darhudan and Darhudana are Grandfather and Grandmother Mortal, emphasizing their role as ancestors. "Dar" also means "chief", but might mean "grand" in this context.

Havan Vor might well mean "First to Die". See Voria, the first deity to emerge from the Gates of Dawn.

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1 hour ago, Joerg said:

I am pretty certain that either names are titles.

The wiki says Havan Vor is "a tower in the Underworld", containing the Court of Silence, and that it might be used metonymically for Grandfather Mortal.

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25 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

The wiki says Havan Vor is "a tower in the Underworld", containing the Court of Silence, and that it might be used metonymically for Grandfather Mortal.

That entry is mighily confused, or "demensed". (I might have corrected that alternate spelling if I had not been blocked from editing the wikia)

The Black Tower of Havan Vor is the demesne of the Judge of the Dead at the Court of Silence, and/or holds it. From the description, it bears a marked similarity to the Obsidian Palace in the Surface World.

The Court of Silence may describe a place, or it may describe the assembled court of the King/Judge of the Dead. (Not that "king" and "judge" are that far apart in their meanings, if you look at the history of the tribes of Israel. The difference is a rite of anointing that may make the title inheritable in the male line, really.)

There are two mentions of the tower of Havan Vor in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (sidebar p.343, p.347), both in a possessive sense rather than "the tower is named Havan Vor", alongside many mentions of Havan Vor as a destination in the Underworld that don't necessarily denote it as a place. P.346 has "Havan Vor, the Court of Silence". The text has Havan Vor cry out “Not since the Disrupter ransacked my hall have the Living dared challenge me so!” (p.349) - this doesn't appear to be typical tower behavior.

It isn't clear whether Havan Vor is used interchangeably with Darhudan (which in this context might be "King of the Dead") or whether the Court of Silence is something like a collective entity, possibly a chorus of the judge as in a Greek tragedy.

Havan Vor definitely does not stand for a building  or landmark in any sane reading of the material.

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3 hours ago, Joerg said:

 

 Darhudan and Darhudana are Grandfather and Grandmother Mortal, emphasizing their role as ancestors. "Dar" also means "chief", but might mean "grand" in this context.

It could also potentially mean something like “First Man”, if “Dar” for “Chief” means “first” (the way “princeps” does, for instance).

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3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It would be very helpful to know what “Daka Fal” means.

Probably Judge of the Dead. Could mean something like "Separator" for his role dividing the living from the dead.

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6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It could also potentially mean something like “First Man”, if “Dar” for “Chief” means “first” (the way “princeps” does, for instance).

I'm not sure, since Prince seems to be a separate word from Dar/Chief (SKoH 84, and here)

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