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Pavis!


Glorion

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10 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Coders are out of Pavis by late in 1621. They have bigger and better things to do.

Ah, too bad. There are plenty of top Lunars in the old RQ2 pack who might have managed to escape and go underground, I'll pick a couple, probably one good guy and one bad guy. That RQ2 to RQG is an easier conversion is nice also.

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2 hours ago, Brootse said:

And according to the Guide 10k people live in the Grantlands in 1621.

Sure. These include Fisherfolk and Corflu (3K and 1K respectively), 1K for Ronegarth aka Raus Fort (as urban), and 5K rural which may include oasis folk from e.g. Weis, and possibly other places - all of the river valley is oasis land.

Occupation forces don't appear to be included in these numbers - Lunar (-paid mercenary) guard posts should be situate along the River, according to Pavis and Big Rubble on military forces (under the heading of "Long Term Employment").

Edited by Joerg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

Ā 

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10 hours ago, Joerg said:

If I am right about the Grantlands having been prepared for Hazia cultivation, there is no question where the next harvest would have gone.

I understood them to be for maize, as without fertility only something like Hon Eel's sacrifice could build fertility in the soil outside the remaining shreds of Genert's Garden (the oases).

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41 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Occupation forces don't appear to be included in these numbers - Lunar (-paid mercenary) guard posts should be situate along the River, according to Pavis and Big Rubble on military forces (under the heading of "Long Term Employment").

This is from my notes soĀ I will apologize in advance if there are typos and errors.Ā 

Quote

Ā 

only a third of regiment (a company) is in Pavis at any time, the others arrayed up and down the valleyā€¦ on leaveā€¦ another ā…“ could be arrive in 36 hours and and a regiment could be at full strength in a week.

Total, about 4000 unitsā€¦

Mercenaries:

as contingent of dragonewt, native sable riders and the zebra people, smaller parties hired by contingency

Total, about 4000 unitsā€¦

[RoC pp. 68-69 []PTtD CGftgm pp. 30-31]

Ā 

Ā 

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55 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I understood them to be for maize, as without fertility only something like Hon Eel's sacrifice could build fertility in the soil outside the remaining shreds of Genert's Garden (the oases).

Barley does sufficiently well in the Zola Fel Valley that Pavis and Sun Counties are fed. Raus appears to have stabilized his population in terms of harvests, too.

Yes, the settlers may wish to plant grain for food, but there are limits to how much you can overcharge for grain in the valley. Hazia, on the other hand, is a crop known to grow well in the valley and yielding prime prices in the Empire, especially when the usual channels with imperial privilege/monopoly haven't caught up with the two lost harvests from the Windstop. If Halcyon wants to make big money, Hazia is one easy way to get it.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

Ā 

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44 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Yes, the settlers may wish to plant grain for food, but there are limits to how much you can overcharge for grain in the valley. Hazia, on the other hand, is a crop known to grow well in the valley and yielding prime prices in the Empire, especially when the usual channels with imperial privilege/monopoly haven't caught up with the two lost harvests from the Windstop. If Halcyon wants to make big money, Hazia is one easy way to get it.

I'm pleased to see the Praxian parallels to post-Soviet occupied Afghanistan keep piling up!

!i!

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carbon copy logo smallest.jpgĀ  ...developer of White Rabbit Green

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58 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Barley does sufficiently well in the Zola Fel Valley that Pavis and Sun Counties are fed. Raus appears to have stabilized his population in terms of harvests, too.

Yes, the settlers may wish to plant grain for food, but there are limits to how much you can overcharge for grain in the valley. Hazia, on the other hand, is a crop known to grow well in the valley and yielding prime prices in the Empire, especially when the usual channels with imperial privilege/monopoly haven't caught up with the two lost harvests from the Windstop. If Halcyon wants to make big money, Hazia is one easy way to get it.

image.png.5b1f25d0b13d63e09deeeef4e40402cb.png

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3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Sure. These include Fisherfolk and Corflu (3K and 1K respectively), 1K for Ronegarth aka Raus Fort (as urban), and 5K rural which may include oasis folk from e.g. Weis, and possibly other places - all of the river valley is oasis land.

Occupation forces don't appear to be included in these numbers - Lunar (-paid mercenary) guard posts should be situate along the River, according to Pavis and Big Rubble on military forces (under the heading of "Long Term Employment").

Ā 

2 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

This is from my notes soĀ I will apologize in advance if there are typos and errors.Ā 

Ā 

I wonder if the occupation forces are counted even in Pavis city's or county's population numbers.

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19 minutes ago, Brootse said:

I wonder if the occupation forces are counted even in Pavis city's or county's population numbers.

In Pavis box the numbers are separate.

from my notes so typos are mine... again...

Quote

Ā 

The number of people in Pavis changes with the season. There are about 4,500 permanent residents, but winter drives many to take refuge within the city walls, adding 500 or so (same size as Jasper in winter). As with all populations, about half are adultsā€”say, 2,500ā€”equally divided between men and women. Another 1500 live outside the wall in badtown and zebratown and scattered camps.

[P CGftGM page 15]

No notes on Pavis County but I would assume They are separate numbers again.

Edited by Bill the barbarian

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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3 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

I'm pleased to see the Praxian parallels to post-Soviet occupied Afghanistan keep piling up!

!i!

Ian: given all the awful things that have happened to Afghanistan since, Afghan nostalgia, at least in the cities, for the good old days under Soviet occupation has become a definite if not universal thing.

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20 minutes ago, Glorion said:

Ian: given all the awful things that have happened to Afghanistan since, Afghan nostalgia, at least in the cities, for the good old days under Soviet occupation has become a definite if not universal thing.

I imagine the population along the Zola Fel might be feeling similarly about the Lunars before long as the religious zealots exact revenge for grudges old and new, holy and mundane.Ā  Not to make light of the cycle of occupation, oppression,Ā reactionary violence and lawless criminality that Afghanistan has gone through many times over the centuries.

!i!

carbon copy logo smallest.jpgĀ  ...developer of White Rabbit Green

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Hm. Just read for the first time in many years the account of the sacking of the City of Wonders in "Gloranthan Visions." Which oneĀ of my PC's, a Vingan in fact, participated in. According to it, Harrek's berserks engaged in an orgy of raping and murder of the unsuspecting civilian population, basically killing all of them. Maybe Harrek's berserks were just less worried than Sartarites about turning into broos? Also, what about slaves? If a slave "voluntarily" provides sexual services in return for better food, less hard work, and bathing facilities, will the owner turn into a broo? Is sexual slavery a thing on Glorantha?

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2 hours ago, Glorion said:

Just read for the first time in many years the account of the sacking of the City of Wonders in "Gloranthan Visions."

this is very surprising. one of the things about beat-pot aelwrin that made him such a monstrous figure was that he actually raped the lunar priestess who enslaved him before he killed her. his redemption at the hands of jar eel is all the more noteworthy for his utter depravity in this single act.

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23 hours ago, Glorion said:

That's interesting. Not in any published materials as far as I know, but sounds reasonable, I can go with that. So no rapes, but plenty of looting, burning and killing.

"A Tale to Tell" in Shadows on the Borderland

Granted it's Ogres not Broo but failing to punish a rape results in the extinction of the whole community or its conversion to chaos if the PCs fail.

As a side note does anyone know if Jon Quaife was influenced by the Nick Enright play Black Rock?

Edited by Rob Darvall
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2 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

"A Tale to Tell" in Shadows on the Borderland

Granted it's Ogres not Broo but failing to punish a rape results in the extinction of the whole community or its conversion to chaos if the PCs fail.

As a side note does anyone know if Jon Quaife was influenced by the Nick Enright play Black Rock?

Doesn't fit too well with the City of Wonders story, which actually had Greg Stafford's seal of approval, as expressed in the intro he wrote.Ā Maybe Harrek's Berserks have some sort of unusual ability to get away with rape for magical reasons. They are pretty universally loathed.

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8 hours ago, Glorion said:

Hm. Just read for the first time in many years the account of the sacking of the City of Wonders in "Gloranthan Visions." Which oneĀ of my PC's, a Vingan in fact, participated in. According to it, Harrek's berserks engaged in an orgy of raping and murder of the unsuspecting civilian population, basically killing all of them. Maybe Harrek's berserks were just less worried than Sartarites about turning into broos? Also, what about slaves? If a slave "voluntarily" provides sexual services in return for better food, less hard work, and bathing facilities, will the owner turn into a broo? Is sexual slavery a thing on Glorantha?

If I recall there wasn't an orgy of rape when the City of Wonders was sacked in Phyllis's storyĀ Ā - plenty of sacking, looting, and causal violence but not rape. Rape is very uncommon in Glorantha outside of the broo. There's plenty of gods that have lots to say on that subject - Ernalda,Ā Orlanth, Storm Bull, Yelmalio, Babeester Gor, Maran Gor, Gorgorma, to say a few. And in a place like the City of Wonders, such an action might trigger guardians that nobody wants to awaken. Better to kill civilians, take their stuff, and light the city on fire.

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There is always the taking of slaves and making them obey to your whims. Frat-boy perps' excuses void the risk of becoming a broo.

Gloranthan moralty is different from that of the users of this forum (or at least I hope it is... Violence is always an option?). But that goes for ancient world ethics anyway.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

Ā 

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2 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

"A Tale to Tell" in Shadows on the Borderland

Granted it's Ogres not Broo but failing to punish a rape results in the extinction of the whole community or its conversion to chaos if the PCs fail.

As a side note does anyone know if Jon Quaife was influenced by the Nick Enright play Black Rock?

Ā "A Tale to Tell" is about Muriah the witch queen and her band of broos. You are thinking of "Black Rock Village," where an unpunished rape and the death of the victim leads to the birth of a succubus, not the conversion of anyone, including the rapist, into broos. She masters the community and bends it to her will,Ā but that can be broken by the PC's in normal fashions, not through magically purging the community of chaos.

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20 minutes ago, Jeff said:

If I recall there wasn't an orgy of rape when the City of Wonders was sacked in Phyllis's storyĀ Ā - plenty of sacking, looting, and causal violence but not rape. Rape is very uncommon in Glorantha outside of the broo. There's plenty of gods that have lots to say on that subject - Ernalda,Ā Orlanth, Storm Bull, Yelmalio, Babeester Gor, Maran Gor, Gorgorma, to say a few. And in a place like the City of Wonders, such an action might trigger guardians that nobody wants to awaken. Better to kill civilians, take their stuff, and light the city on fire.

Page 16, "robbing, raping and murdering." The entire population gets wiped out.

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