Jump to content

'Jeffed'?


The Hooded Claw

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Addison said:

Regarding RQ/Glorantha, for the last twenty years 'patience' has been my middle name.

Then you are used to it.  Right now the game is on solid footing and should do good, providing they can maintain product quality and address any game mechanics issues that still exist. If they put something out before it is ready they jeopardize losing the new fans and the casual fans.

  • Like 2

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

I find the Facebook group far more representative of the newer players, whereas forums are much more reflective of the concerns of grognards who still want to gripe about which long-out-of-print edition of the game should have been the basis for the new system - the one from the Carter Administration or the one from the first Reagan Administration.

As I'm not on Facebook, that means I does qualify as a grognard.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

I find the Facebook group far more representative of the newer players, whereas forums are much more reflective of the concerns of grognards

This is actually the way I decide which to post something in - if I'm looking for assistance about an abstruse Gloranthan factlet that is only documented in some 80's fanzine, I go here. If I'm posting unsolicited duck pics,  the Facebook group.

It's great to have both!

(And missing the Google group.)

Edited by Akhôrahil
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

This is a good example why I increasingly dislike forums. Someone wants more product faster and WITHOUT A SINGLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION, blames someone (in this case me) for being the hold-up. Frankly, I find this objectionable and insulting. 

Know that your many years of hard work and passionate commitment to excellence in these projects and others like them is greatly appreciated. While I'll admit to now and again grinding an axe in frustration over a few decisions on direction or prioritization I wish you'd made differently, any criticism I make is coming from a place of gratitude and extremely high regard for the remaining 99%. 

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

My focus has been on the Cults of Glorantha and the RuneQuest Campaign - two huge foundational books. There is not going to be a Cults of Glorantha Kickstarter. We will be releasing it in the normal manner once art is done. Cults is two volumes of material and requires a LOT of art. It also has required a lot of feedback and revision because it is a foundational book for the entire cosmology of everything. The RuneQuest Campaign is essentially Boy King for RuneQuest. 

I'm glad that you & your colleagues are taking the time to realize these projects in the manner they deserve and executing them in a fashion that keeps the company & its employees healthy. 

I'm proud to run your games for my children, and your face lighting up when you saw the pics of my players in their Red Moon Rising masks is my favorite memory from Gen Con 50.

Thank you.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My tuppence' worth: the production standards of the releases so far have been well beyond any previous RuneQuest materials and beyond what I was expecting. After taking my players (80% of whom are new to RuneQuest) through character gen recently, most of them have said they will probably buy a copy of the rulebook, because they can see the potential of the game and think that the book is a thing of beauty. So, in my experience new players are responding positively to the approach Chaosium are taking.

Yes, we'd all love to see new product come out quicker, but I'm pretty sure that Jeff and Jason are under no illusions about that and also want to support their product as soon as possible. I suspect releases will become regular next year once the finished manuscripts start to increase and artwork begins to roll in. This has all the makings of being a real purple patch for Chaosium, with regular artists and writers collaborating on some of the best gaming material ever produced by the company, or indeed anybody.

As for the amount of material available, personally, I'm now at a point where I'm ready to kick off my campaign (4th December) using the scenarios from the GM Screen Adventures book, The Broken Tower, The Rattling Wind and a few HeroQuest and 13th Age scenarios I've decided to convert. Along with three original scenarios I've written, I've got enough material to last over two years of game time (based on one adventure per season). I've put them in order and figured out a campaign timeline, but if Smoking Ruins and Pegasus Plateau come out in PDF in the next few months I'll rejig my timeline or increase the number of adventures per season.  There'll also be the Jonstown Compendium to supplement all this.

One final point though @Jeff - the information posted about layout being 1/3 done etc is all great to hear - could there be more frequent updates of this kind? I understand Chaosium's reticence on giving out release dates, given the history of these slipping, but 'percentage done' type statements are the kind of communication that keep people abreast of what's going on, without over-promising. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would just like to note that putting books of any significant size together isn't quick or easy: text to write, check for consistency and proofread; art to procure, artists to be given direction; maps to draw; layout to be done. If there's a team available to do these tasks, then things are eased, to a degree, but then there are the issues of communication, management and editing. There's a reason, even in the professional mass market world for non-gaming books, that there's often a year of development hell between a book being delivered by an author, and the product hitting the shelves.

Anyone doubting this should put something together for the Jonstown Compendium.

😉

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/18/2019 at 10:18 AM, Addison said:

I have a suspicion that we have now moved out of the era where Runequest fans were always in danger of being 'Gregged' only for it to be replaced by one where the game is now being 'Jeffed'. I suspect that the bottleneck to getting a steady stream of product is Jeff's desire to 'dot the i's and cross the t's' on every single word of Glorantha that comes out of Chaosium. I'm guessing that that (despite the intention of the huge Gloranthan Guide doubling as a handbook for writers, freeing them to produce stuff without needing an editor on the shoulder at every turn) is the reason why there is a dearth of RQG stuff on the shelf.

I'm hoping that 'Jeffing' doesn't lead to the game languishing once again. My fear is that, without a steady stream of support, once again we'll be in a situation where the game is being held afloat by old grognards (people in their 40s and 50s) alone.

No doubt the Gods Of Glorantha kickstarter, when it happens, will be a roaring success and give the illusion that the game is still thriving. But no doubt again, it will be mainly old Gloranthan devotees from back in the day that are the ones lining up. This is not healthy for the game.

Whilst there may be problematic differences in subject matter, compare the Runequest line with what has happened to the new revitalised Call Of Cthulhu line with Mike Mason at the helm. Fantastic product, with great art and layout, released every four months or so.

So hopefully Jeff can either relax and speed things up, or clone himself.

However, I'm still desperately excited for the new Robin Laws Pavis/Rubble opus that should be out sometime next year...

To whom it may apply: Instead of "suspecting" why not just ask Chaosium for some info on why products are coming out more slowly than you want?

A number of us at Chaosium (Jeff, Jason, me) are usually happy to shed light on the situation.

The situation is actually far different than what the OP "suspected". Glorantha is tough to write for. A lot of writers are intimidated by the subject. Many decades ago, Chaosium was asked "why does so much more CoC material get published as opposed to RQ material?" Greg's answer from back then is still true today. Chaosium gets many more submissions for CoC material than it does for RuneQuest material. Probably at least 5 times as many. Also, as has been stated in previous replies, we spend a LOT more time on art direction than was ever done in the past. So, when you have few authors writing material, and art takes a long time, the end result means books don't get published as fast.

It is also worth pointing everyone to the Jonstown Compendium section on DriveThruRPG. Chaosium has specifically set up an outlet for RuneQuest authors to get material published without Chaosium slowing you down with any, especially lengthy, editing or review. We are always on the lookout for more RuneQuest authors that can produce quality material to deadline. We happily pay them for it. We certainly don't discourage them.

PS: We don't have any RuneQuest related kickstarters on the horizon, including Gods of Glorantha. Once again, instead of "suspecting" or "speculating", this could have been asked as a question, which we would have happily answered. Kickstarters often have the result of slowing down the release of new material. We don't need a Kickstarter to tell us enough people will buy the newest forthcoming RQ book.

Edited by Rick Meints
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 6

Hope that Helps,
Rick Meints - Chaosium, Inc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

ALL: Instead of "suspecting" why not just ask Chaosium for some info on why products are coming out more slowly than you want?

Probably because most of us didn't suspect, and just thought that these things take  time. I'm sure you folk want  to get the stuff out as fast as we do. You can't make a profit with out a product. I think it''s just that when people hear of a product they assume that it is (nearly) finished and ready for  print.

 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you need to rethink this point:

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

... from a business point of view, the MRQ model is more successful as the goal of a RPG company is to get people to buy the RPG , not to play it ...

Up above, Jeff stated (RE the MRQ line):

  • the core rules sold ok (although much fewer than RQG has sold during the initial release period)
  • each supplement sold about 50% of the sales of the previous book
  • until sales were less than 100 units for books
  • Which meant the line was dead

So the MRQ model was, in fact, NOT successful in getting people to buy.

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, g33k said:

So the MRQ model was, in fact, NOT successful in getting people to buy.

It wasn't successful for MRG  but has been, and continues to be successful for many of their other lines. The problem with aiming for the 75% that sits on  the shelf is that fans get fed up and stop buying. That's okay with D&D, where  there is  both a larger fanbase to begin with and new players always joining, and new editions every few years, to restart the cycle.  But Mongoose, with the basic strategy of publish lots of stuff, take the profits and run has done remarkably well  for them. Unfortunately. 

Just like how the specialized class/clan book approach on some companies, giving each sub-set of PCs it's own book with new and special abilities for players to droll over has done well in getting players to buy books. It's basically MtG, and how to get around the problem that most of the players don't buy many books, and there is no need with a   RPG to buy more than the core books. Splat books with new "powerups" gets player to fork over cash so they can take those cool new abilities.  That's why there are a gazillion specialized guidebooks to each class in D&D. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

Glorantha is tough to write for.

[...]

Chaosium gets many more submissions for CoC material than it does for RuneQuest material. Probably at least 5 times as many.

On a purely anecdotal level, yes, I'm feeling this right now. I wrote a few (unpublished) scenarios in the past for CoC/DG for my groups, and it's not too hard. Scenarios in the 1920s/30s take a little bit more research or fact checking than modern-day ones, but it's a breeze and a pleasure to do. But now as I'm trying to write a couple Gloranthan scenarios, it's going so slow. I can't assume anything, I can't "write about something I know", and finding information or doing fact checking is a lot harder (although it's easy to ask here on these forums, thank god Lankhor Mhy). I'm thinking about switching gears and starting with, basically, "Dungeon+ scenarios" (simple dungeon crawl, plus a little twist somewhere) to cut my teeth on, instead of "real" scenarios with a stronger narrative or plot.

 

Edited by lordabdul
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to  The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I'm thinking about switching gears and starting with, basically, "Dungeon+ scenarios" (simple dungeon crawl, plus a little twist somewhere) to cut my teeth on, instead of "real" scenarios with a stronger narrative or plot.

 

Get used to doing stat blocks, They are a bear!

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

On a purely anecdotal level, yes, I'm feeling this right now. I wrote a few (unpublished) scenarios in the past for CoC/DG for my groups, and it's not too hard. Scenarios in the 1920s/30s take a little bit more research or fact checking than modern-day ones, but it's a breeze and a pleasure to do. But now as I'm trying to write a couple Gloranthan scenarios, it's going so slow. I can't assume anything, I can't "write about something I know", and finding information or doing fact checking is a lot harder (although it's easy to ask here on these forums, thank god Lankhor Mhy). I'm thinking about switching gears and starting with, basically, "Dungeon+ scenarios" (simple dungeon crawl, plus a little twist somewhere) to cut my teeth on, instead of "real" scenarios with a stronger narrative or plot.

 

I feel this as I'm still dabbling in some Glorantha-based lore ideas I've yet to finish. I've allowed myself to deviate from published canon where I want, but that doesn't mean it doesn't come with some trepidation to preserve the "feel" of Glorantha and to also tie it into published canon where I'd like.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Get used to doing stat blocks, They are a bear!

The Cradle of Heroes is your friend.  It is not a bear.  Suggestions of hair, fangs, claws, or hibernation are all Treasonous.  Please report Treason to the nearest Cradle instance, preferably the one in your pocket.  Failure to have a Cradle in your pocket is Treasonous.  Thank you.

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Sumath said:

the information posted about layout being 1/3 done etc is all great to hear - could there be more frequent updates of this kind?

A few years ago there was unrest on the GURPS forums about a similar perceived lack of new books being released, and as a result Dr. Kromm (Sean Punch, line editor of GURPS) started giving out updates exactly like this -- no promises, just a "here's where stuff is at" including, in many cases, updates like "I spent half my time this week on a secret exciting project I can't talk about yet". You can see it over here on his LiveJournal (yes, LiveJournal... the SJGames people are old school!). There's also a more official, less regular, and less personal version over at GURPS News which mentions "future plans" on a regular basis. I'd love to see something similar from Chaosium, like maybe included in the newsletters or something, but it's fine if Chaosium doesn't want to do that for some reason.

Edited by lordabdul
  • Like 1

Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to  The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

A few years ago there was unrest on the GURPS forums about a similar perceived lack of new books being released, and as a result Dr. Kromm (Sean Punch, line editor of GURPS) started giving out updates exactly like this -- no promises, just a "here's where stuff is at" including, in many cases, updates like "I spent half my time this week on a secret exciting project I can't talk about yet". You can see it over here on his LiveJournal (yes, LiveJournal... the SJGames people are old school!). There's also a more official, less regular, and less personal version over at GURPS News which mentions "future plans" on a regular basis. I'd love to see something similar from Chaosium, like maybe included in the newsletters or something, but it's fine if Chaosium doesn't want to do that for some reason.

Onyx Path does this kind of thing very well. Basically ”we had our weekly staff meeting and things stand like this”. I would imagine that apart from keeping the fan base informed, it also helps to generate hype.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weekly sounds a bit disruptive to me. Speaking as someone who's seen this kind of thing before from video game developers, it can quickly devolve into people thinking that because a week was light on news nothing was done, which is a stupid attitude, but one you have to expect. You also have to make a member of staff do this, which of course will take away from their usual work tasks, and while not necessary a huge job, can get a bit involved if it involves having to get info from different teams and different departments working with different schedules, etc.

If anything, a monthly newsletter (and a short one at that, like a blog or forum post or whatever, unless there's something to actually say in length) seems more appropriate, useful, doable. EDIT: Unless someone at Chaosium who actually knows their stuff disagrees. It's not like I have any practical experience on putting this together myself.

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Weekly sounds a bit disruptive to me. Speaking as someone who's seen this kind of thing before from video game developers, it can quickly devolve into people thinking that because a week was light on news nothing was done, which is a stupid attitude, but one you have to expect. You also have to make a member of staff do this, which of course will take away from their usual work tasks, and while not necessary a huge job, can get a bit involved if it involves having to get info from different teams and different departments working with different schedules, etc.

Onyx Path has an extremely wide production pipeline, so it works there.

For Chaosium, posting production status updates in Ab Chaos, maybe?

Edited by Akhôrahil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MOB said:

The Jonstown Compendium and its four initial releases are in hands of DTRPG; release imminent.

Imminent you say? Excited to see what kind of content we have out at launch and dabbling with ideas of short projects to add up there just to add to the community but I never commit to anything long enough to actually make something worth a damn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DerKrieger said:

Imminent you say? Excited to see what kind of content we have out at launch and dabbling with ideas of short projects to add up there just to add to the community but I never commit to anything long enough to actually make something worth a damn.

I think all 4 initial products (I'm sure that most) have a teaser-y bit already showing in that thread, if you want to get teased.

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...