Book of Feasts Question

[RichardA 4]

On p.8 of The Book of Feasts, it states: "There are five activities to choose from: Draw Cards (unless disallowed — see below), Gossip, Indulge, Flirt, or Game."

Later on that same page, it states: "Thus, characters seated Above the Salt cannot draw Feast Cards, but must choose from among Gossip, Indulge, and Flirt, whose results are more staid and predictable."

Does that mean if you are seated Above the Salt, you also cannot choose the Game activity? Or was the omission of Game an error?

 

The same page also states, "If the Feast Deck runs out of cards...then players can choose only Gossip, Indulge, and Flirt for the remainder of the feast."

That also seems to omit Game as an activity, contradicting the first line about the 5 permitted activities. Is that an omission error?

 

 

[ericvulgaris 7]

I believe its an editing/omission error. I have no backing to support this other than it makes sense that you can game and wager at the high table assuming those proper knights and ladies would be interested! 

[Morien 373]

I expect it is an omission error too. I am sure David will chime in soon enough with an authorial answer.

[Atgxtg 1,575]

9 hours ago, RichardA said:

On p.8 of The Book of Feasts, it states: "There are five activities to choose from: Draw Cards (unless disallowed — see below), Gossip, Indulge, Flirt, or Game."

That also seems to omit Game as an activity, contradicting the first line about the 5 permitted activities. Is that an omission error?

Judging from the rest of the book, it certainly looks like it. 

Oh, and it might be worth pointing out that although a character above the salt cannot draw feast cards, I didn't see anything that says he or she cannot play a feast card if they wind up with one.

[sirlarkins 126]

On 11/19/2019 at 12:15 AM, Morien said:

I expect it is an omission error too. I am sure David will chime in soon enough with an authorial answer.

An omission for sure. The Gaming option was added later in the design process, so looks like it didn't get inserted into the text in all the spots it should have.

 

On 11/19/2019 at 8:23 AM, Atgxtg said:

Oh, and it might be worth pointing out that although a character above the salt cannot draw feast cards, I didn't see anything that says he or she cannot play a feast card if they wind up with one.

I would certainly allow that interpretation.

[Atgxtg 1,575]

21 minutes ago, sirlarkins said:

I would certainly allow that interpretation.

BTW, this came up at my last feast: How do you handle ties? Do the winners split the  glory, does the feast continue for another round to determine a clear winner?

[Call Me Deacon Blues 16]

I don't remember if this is an official interpretation, or just something I did to adjudicate ties, but I went with whoever is sitting in the higher position, and then if they tie, highest App, and then if THEY tie, App roll.

[sirlarkins 126]

Yeah, I'd go in order of seating, and if that's tied I'd give it to the character with more Glory. Using APP works too, depending on your group's preference.

[Call Me Deacon Blues 16]

I thought about glory, but was trying to somewhat mitigate the issue of higher glory leading to even more glory, though I know that's at least somewhat intended by the system. 

[Atgxtg 1,575]

Hmm, maybe: Seating, APP, (modified or unmodified?) and then Glory?

Edited November 27, 2019 by Atgxtg

[Tizun Thane 85]

9 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Do the winners split the  glory,

It's my houserule

[SaxBasilisk 19]

I'll add a question of my own, as SirLarkins has stopped by and I have a feast to run Sunday:

Geniality is gained when cards are drawn, not played, correct? So if a player of a 3,000 Glory PK draws two cards from the deck, the character immediately gains the Geniality from both, and then the player decides which of the two cards to play (absent any requirements on those cards that supersede that choice)?

I'll add that the feast system is quite fun and has added quite a bit of character building to the game.

Edited November 27, 2019 by SaxBasilisk

[Tizun Thane 85]

13 hours ago, SaxBasilisk said:

Geniality is gained when cards are drawn, not played, correct?

It is written that way, but in my game, only played cards gave geniality bonus.

[Atgxtg 1,575]

On 11/28/2019 at 7:50 AM, Tizun Thane said:

It is written that way, but in my game, only played cards gave geniality bonus.

I think that was how it was meant to work, otherwise high glory PKs could just  ddraw a bunch of cards and play the safest card and still out glory the other characters. So I've always took it to mean the glory  is  gained as the cards are  played.

[SaxBasilisk 19]

13 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I think that was how it was meant to work, otherwise high glory PKs could just  ddraw a bunch of cards and play the safest card and still out glory the other characters. So I've always took it to mean the glory  is  gained as the cards are  played.

The other  effect that "Geniality gained from cardson play" provides is that a player drawing multiple cards gets interesting choices. If one card is worth more Geniality, but the other gives another benefit, which one should the player choose?

What I'm hearing is that I understand the rules as written - but also that"Geniality from cards played, not drawn" is a more satisfying interpretation for people. I may implement the latter, then. 

[Atgxtg 1,575]

12 hours ago, SaxBasilisk said:

The other  effect that "Geniality gained from cardson play" provides is that a player drawing multiple cards gets interesting choices. If one card is worth more Geniality, but the other gives another benefit, which one should the player choose?

Yes, it if is from cards drawn then it sort of makes playing cards moot. A card that might net anther 2 or 3 gentility doesn't mean so much if  players are getting that just from drawing cards.

 

12 hours ago, SaxBasilisk said:

What I'm hearing is that I understand the rules as written - but also that"Geniality from cards played, not drawn" is a more satisfying interpretation for people. I may implement the latter, then. 

Yes, that is how the rules are written, but I don't believe that is how they were intended to be played. No only would doing so greatly increase the geniality/glory awards, and make card play much less significant, and doing anything other than drawing cards the equivalent of throwing in the towel, but it would pretty much give the win to the character who draws the most cards, just about every time. So I just don't believe that was the intention.

[sirlarkins 126]

Correct, Geniality is only gained when a card is played, not drawn.

[KungFuFenris 60]

So. I just discovered the 10x Glory bonus was only to the knight with most Geniality.
That.... that changes a thing or two among the PKs in my game, as the Feasts have been quite good to them, especially the Aquitanian.
If I had to calculate backwards, it would mean the Aquitanian is 500 Glory ahead of the lowest in the group, as he's been handily winning every Feast by a margin of four to five Geniality.

Also. NPKs at the feast. Yes or no? Because they'll need to be rolled for as well.

Edited December 6, 2019 by KungFuFenris

[Atgxtg 1,575]

10 minutes ago, KungFuFenris said:

Also. NPKs at the feast. Yes or no? Because they'll need to be rolled for as well.

Officallly you don't bother with NPKS as far as generaily and such goes. Also this sort of repsaents the PKS best feast all year. Also the number of feast cards a re limited and running mutiple N PKS  as if they were PKS would quickly become overwhelming and bog the feast down.

 

Unofficially, I could see running a feast where NPKs were involved.

• What I'd probably do for that would  be  to set a minimum Genality threshold to win the feast. For instance 5, 10, 15 whatever. If the PKS don't beat that value some NPK wins.
• If I had some special VIP guest, I'd either award the VIP extra glory due to his special status, or maybe run one NPK like a PK.
• Or, maybe make all the feast rolls opposed, and track geniality for the NPKs who are opposing the PKs.  
• My  goal would be not to have  to need to take time to make any extra  rolls or draw cards for NPKs.

 

[sirlarkins 126]

On 12/6/2019 at 8:18 AM, KungFuFenris said:

So. I just discovered the 10x Glory bonus was only to the knight with most Geniality.
That.... that changes a thing or two among the PKs in my game, as the Feasts have been quite good to them, especially the Aquitanian.
If I had to calculate backwards, it would mean the Aquitanian is 500 Glory ahead of the lowest in the group, as he's been handily winning every Feast by a margin of four to five Geniality.

Also. NPKs at the feast. Yes or no? Because they'll need to be rolled for as well.

When I do a revised version of the Feast mechanics, I'm definitely going to make adjustments to the Glory awards. My assumption was that feasts would be only occasional things (that's how I tend to run them), but folks seems to like to use them a lot more frequently. Which is certainly flattering, but it really throws off the Glory awards. Feel free to adjust the awards to fit frequency in your campaign.

Agreed that NPKs should not be tracked. I like the suggestion of setting a minimum threshold to beat in order to win the feast. Sort of like the quick tournament resolution system. A Pentecost feast at Camelot should have a nigh-unbeatable threshold, and work down from there.

[Atgxtg 1,575]

1 hour ago, sirlarkins said:

When I do a revised version of the Feast mechanics, I'm definitely going to make adjustments to the Glory awards. My assumption was that feasts would be only occasional things (that's how I tend to run them), but folks seems to like to use them a lot more frequently. Which is certainly flattering, but it really throws off the Glory awards. Feel free to adjust the awards to fit frequency in your campaign.

In my experience the players really loved the  feasts at first, due to all the cards and unusual events,  but eventually the novelty worse off and things settled down into more  of a routine.

 

1 hour ago, sirlarkins said:

Agreed that NPKs should not be tracked. I like the suggestion of setting a minimum threshold to beat in order to win the feast. Sort of like the quick tournament resolution system. A Pentecost feast at Camelot should have a nigh-unbeatable threshold, and work down from there.

I was thinking of something along the the lines  of 1.5-2 geniality per round  of the feast, as a threshold. The idea is that  this would be a typical knight making  most of his rolls, and maybe  getting 1-2 good event cards. So grand feast that lasts 4 rounds would have a threshold of 6-8 geniality for a PK to win it. Otherwise, some NPK does do. You might want to have separate awards for both knights and ladies. 

[Morien 373]

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

You might want to have separate awards for both knights and ladies. 

Yep, this too.

Didn't we talk about NPK thresholds when the book came out? I distinctly remember that, but I am too lazy to look for the link.

[Atgxtg 1,575]

55 minutes ago, Morien said:

Yep, this too.

Didn't we talk about NPK thresholds when the book came out? I distinctly remember that, but I am too lazy to look for the link.

Yes, we did, but it was more in the spirit of figuring out how the new supplement worked, and making some observations. Plus due to it being new, and feasts getting combined with other events,  it probably got more use than originally intended. 100-200 glory once or twice a decade isn't a  big thing. But the same amount every other year is.

[Tizun Thane 85]

In my game, the threshold is 3 x number of rounds of the feast, under the assomption that someone at the high table is going to win each round.

[Atgxtg 1,575]

1 hour ago, Tizun Thane said:

In my game, the threshold is 3 x number of rounds of the feast, under the assomption that someone at the high table is going to win each round.

3x would seem to be too high to me. Someone at the high table is only  going to get 1 point for the high table, plus maybe be an additional point via skill roll. So anyone who gets more than 2x is going t o outclass anyone at the high table. Factor in for card play and there are only a handful of cards that can generate 3 generality or  more per round. I think 3x  just takes the PKs out of the contest.