MOVement rules during combat

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

Is it just me (no instant quips here, please) but is using the MOVement score in combat as representing the number of yards a character can move during melee combat a bit too much?

I mean, if you consider that the character is involved in combat, swinging weapons, looking at what opponents are doing, dodging, diving for cover (which adds to the distance possible) and so on, an average of 8 yards is dashed generous. This represents being able to move across from one side of a small village hall to the other while engaged in combat.

I know that I can tailor a game to suit, using "house rules", and making the MOV value to be feet in distance during combat, but I wondered at the thinking behind such a large estimate.

[Atgxtg]

Not really. A man can job at around 6 mph, which is 3 yards per second, and can run faster. So 8 yards in a  melee round isn't all that unreasonable. Plus people in combat, despite how it looks in most RPGs don't actually stand in  the same spot but move around a lot. 

[Lordabdul]

It's also hard to know exactly if those distances are plausible or not because we don't exactly know how long a combat round is in CoC -- by design, it's an "elastic unit of time", but based on many other games, we can imagine it's about a dozen seconds long on average. That's 35 to 40 meters in one round without being a particularly fast runner, and if nobody's bothering you. Math seems to check out.

Edited November 27, 2019 by lordabdul

[Atgxtg]

Yeah, it's keep flexible now. But even assuming a 3 second round 8 yards is quite reasonable. In f act, I'm inclined to think that CoC, as with most RPGs, has the characters  moving too slowly. Even a mouse can run at nearly 4 yards/second.

[Lordabdul]

I don't remember how it is in previous editions (it's been a long time now!) but in CoC7 you can actually move up to MOVx5 (so ~40 meters for an average human, like I said). It's just that if you move MOV (no multiplier) or less, you don't get, say, penalty dice on your Firearms roll, and so on.

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

I gotta admit, I'm a Keeper who runs a game to play rather than stick to book mechanics. If it sounds right, and it works for the game play, then I'll do it. If it "looks" good for a character to run from one side of the hall to the other then I'm not going to get the tape measure out.

But ...

As you say, Atgxtg, physically it's possible to move that distance. Sure. But if you are engaged in contact combat with an opponent then it's unresonable (note: I say unreasonable not impossible).

Let me use a real life example. After all, the aim of many games is to represent 'real life'. Ish.

Training in an aikido dojo, a big sized hall, mats and everything. I face-off against my sparring partner and begin. They come at me and engage, either by movement, strike or attempt to grip. Our movement "envelope" is at least 3m by 3m. I can move, evade, or counter. I remain in that 'envelope'. Yes, I can "nope" it out of there, up to and including 8 yards/meters. But if I were involved, I were engaged in that contact, then yes - I can disengage and, soon, leg it! But as I move, my opponent can react and make a strike! I couldn't decide I'd moved enough so I could remain engaged! Moving 8m in an 'ordinary' combat round is silly.

I'd accept 8 foot. In combat, even stretching in certain maneuvers, rolling out of the way, dodging past, even ducking, we use our body length to move our "sensitive bits" away from threat. But we aint 3 yards long!

I'm looking at not the physical possibilities of moving 8 yards in one go - that's accepted - but if you are enagaged in physical combat then it's unfeasible.

My suggestion is that when engaged in physical combat then the MOV represents feet rather than yards that the character can move. If that movement disengages from physical combat then they can leg it!

Edited November 27, 2019 by Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

Great GIF (what is that from?) but it displays my point.

We can move 8 yards ... as long as we are not engaged in other actions such as looking at an opponent's moves, preparing for a response or action, or having the crud beaten out of us! 8 feet allows us a 'response' movement - after all, we're not going to stand there and watch our opponent wind up for a haymaker!

Just because we can physically move 8 yards, doesn't mean our opponent will let us. And we might want to run 8 yards but we're not going to turn our back on the thug, to see if he's impressed with our running skills.

Let me stress: my point is movement within engaged combat.

[soltakss]

On 11/29/2019 at 11:11 PM, midwinter said:

It's a scene from "I'm for the Hippopotamus", a Bud Spencer and Terence Hill movie from 1979. 

I thought it looked like Bud Spencer and Terrence Hill. I loved their cowboy films. Weren't they the Left Hand of the Devil and the Right Hand of the Devil?

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

Never heard of them. I am enlightened - I shall find them!

[Atgxtg]

On 11/29/2019 at 4:01 PM, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

Great GIF (what is that from?) but it displays my point.

 

 

 

No it doesn't. Nothing in the clip points to the characters having a reduced movement. All it shows is that one guy is  a show off who doesn't kn ow how to fight. That is kinda typical of alot of armchair martial artists.

 

On 11/29/2019 at 4:01 PM, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

Just because we can physically move 8 yards, doesn't mean our opponent will let us. And we might want to run 8 yards but we're not going to turn our back on the thug, to see if he's impressed with our running skills.

There really ins't all that much he  can do about it, other than maybe cut you off or hit you as you go by.

On 11/29/2019 at 4:01 PM, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

Let me stress: my point is movement within engaged combat.

I get that,  but the thing is, in a real fight people fairly easily move into  and out of striking distance. Generally you come up with a plan, step in, make a few attacks/moves and then either exploit any opportunities that caused or step back and think up something else to try. 

 

When I used to fight with practice weapons I could easily move 8 m or more in 12 seconds. Or in 3 seconds for that matter. Especially if I stepped back from my opponent first.

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

Points taken.

YOU may be able to move 8m but that's expecting your opponent to let you!

I still hold by my questioning: if you are engaged in combat - your opponent being active - you may physically be able to move 8 yards. But your opponent might delay you.

If your opponent wants to delay you i.e. swinging at you with a broom handle for instance or tripping you up, or just tipping over a chair in your way, then your full 8 MOV mightn't be possible. Even running to block you from getting to the door (not a chase, mind) affects your ability to move 8 yards!

It's not so unreasonable:  While engaged in physical, hand-to-hand combat - all characters MOV represent the feet distance they can move, as an addition to their body moves 'used' in combat. They can use this distance to engage or disengage in combat. If they disengage (MOV vs MOV contest win), then their MOV becomes yards.

[Atgxtg]

Just now, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

Points taken.

YOU may be able to move 8m but that's expecting your opponent to let you!

There is no way for him to stop me.

 

 

 

Just now, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

I still hold by my questioning: if you are engaged in combat - your opponent being active - you may physically be able to move 8 yards. But your opponent might delay you.

Only if tyou try to move past him, or if he can reach the point you are moving to before you can.

Just now, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

If your opponent wants to delay you i.e. swinging at you with a broom handle for instance or tripping you up, or just tipping over a chair in your way, then your full 8 MOV mightn't be possible. Even running to block you from getting to the door (not a chase, mind) affects your ability to move 8 yards!

If you are doing it right, you won't be  within striking distance. Unlike how most RPGs put two melee combatant's about 3 feet apart and assume that is where they stay, in a real fight, the combatantants ususally satay just out of striking distance, and  step in to attack, and then back out if the attack isn't successful.

 

Just now, Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis said:

It's not so unreasonable:  While engaged in physical, hand-to-hand combat - all characters MOV represent the feet distance they can move, as an addition to their body moves 'used' in combat. They can use this distance to engage or disengage in combat. If they disengage (MOV vs MOV contest win), then their MOV becomes yards.

The thing is the game makes it much more difficult to disengage that is actually is. Stopping someone from disengaging is actually more risky to the character trying to prevent the disengagement than the the character backing away. 

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

Fair point.

[soltakss]

It was still a funny GIF

[Stormkhan Cogg of Pavis]

True.