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All about Tricksters

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3 hours ago, None said:

Why do trickster have the whole may only learn spells at hrines and only one spell per shrine thing?

This isn't specific to tricksters. Shrines only provide one of the cult's special rune spells (RQ:G 284) it's just that, well... building a temple to the trickster is a bad idea.

Learning spirit magic is usually done from a God-Talker or Rune Priest of your cult, and the Rune Priests of Eurmal (He doesn't seem to have God-Talkers) are required to maintain the local shrine. (295)

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46 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Drona the Earth King of western Fronela might have a similarly tolerant position towards Eurmal Friend of Men. The occasional goddess was "blessed" to give birth to a re-incarnation of Eurmal and priestesses of these goddesses may possibly allow some maternal feelings for that offspring.

There's roughly a metric entekosiad to unpack here. I might start, perversely, by reopening the case of Kylera and her relation to a cyclical trickster. As Taylor Swift teaches, she knew he was trouble but his world moved so fast and so bright. The waters and the east, the trickster and the tricked.

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3 hours ago, Eff said:

From that information, there are kind of two broad interpretations possible: @Qizilbashwoman takes the tack that Nandan is the goddess of trans women (or more specifically those trans women who wish to take on a traditionally feminine role within Orlanthi society) and I, personally, take the tack that Nandan is a god of a complex nonbinary gender identity wherein the person is identified as taking on a feminine role (to the point of pregnancy and childbirth) while still also being masculine for other social purposes. It all depends on whether you want to keep the pronoun usage from older material consistent or not, and how you interpret the six genders of Orlanthi society.

* I assume all pronoun usage in the texts we are reading is "ahistorical", Hail Harshax

* I'm still on that "there are many genders" thing you are, but not specifically in the case of Nandan. My angle is that Rune is gender in Theyalan cultures and Nandan is therefore not exactly reverse-Vinga.

Specifically I'm saying "women" = "Earth rune roles", not trans woman as we know it. (I know it well, because I'm trans.) The new GaGoG says Nandan allows people who normally don't have the equipment for birth to bear children, thus enabling any person to achieve highest ranks in certain Earth cults like Ernalda. Nandan allows entry to the Rune Priestess ranks, but was not necessary to allow the entry of people who can't give birth into Earth rune cults. Vinga apparently was, because Wind be Winding.

(And then Ernalda was like, Vinga you oaf, you're Wind, you can't be pregnant, but She was, so She had to make a deal so Earth would be Her midwife. Orlanth is smarter than Zeus ever was.)

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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

One of the Events in the Hero Wars, for me, is when someone does this and breaks the wave, releasing the Tricksters. What would happen when 10,000 Tricksters are let loose on the world at the same time?

so you really believe the God Learners got smote and there are 10k Tricksters stuck under the sea and yet somehow there's a looming Hero War

I got a bridge for sale cheap

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9 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

* I assume all pronoun usage in the texts we are reading is "ahistorical", Hail Harshax

* I'm still on that "there are many genders" thing you are, but not specifically in the case of Nandan. My angle is that Rune is gender in Theyalan cultures and Nandan is therefore not exactly reverse-Vinga.

Specifically I'm saying "women" = "Earth rune roles", not trans woman as we know it. (I know it well, because I'm trans.) The new GaGoG says Nandan allows people who normally don't have the equipment for birth to bear children, thus enabling any person to achieve highest ranks in certain Earth cults like Ernalda. Nandan allows entry to the Rune Priestess ranks, but was not necessary to allow the entry of people who can't give birth into Earth rune cults. Vinga apparently was, because Wind be Winding.

(And then Ernalda was like, Vinga you oaf, you're Wind, you can't be pregnant, but She was, so She had to make a deal so Earth would be Her midwife. Orlanth is smarter than Zeus ever was.)

Yeah, if we ditch pronoun stuff, then I'm all for your view of Nandan!

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2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

so you really believe the God Learners got smote and there are 10k Tricksters stuck under the sea and yet somehow there's a looming Hero War

Yes, don't you?

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I got a bridge for sale cheap

Where? 

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4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Drona the Earth King of western Fronela might have a similarly tolerant position towards Eurmal Friend of Men. The occasional goddess was "blessed" to give birth to a re-incarnation of Eurmal and priestesses of these goddesses may possibly allow some maternal feelings for that offspring.

 

I was just writing some notes/ideas on this particular version of Eurmal. My explanation for why he is a "Friend of Man" is because he is worshiped in freezing cold Fronela, and he is known for stealing fire from Lodril (locally known as Ladaral). I was thinking that in places like Oranor, Junora, or Jonatela, Ladaral and Eurmal worshipers are both socially accepted (or at least tolerated) because of the role they play in keeping people from freezing to death. 

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1 hour ago, Gallowglass said:

My explanation for why he is a "Friend of Man" is because he is worshiped in freezing cold Fronela, and he is known for stealing fire from Lodril (locally known as Ladaral).

The beauty of Eurmal is that he is both benign and malign, friendly and hateful, nice and nasty. He steals fire and gives it to the people, but he also makes the fire burn people and burns their houses down. He doesn't teach them any magic to stop that.

We had a scenario in our RQ2 days, when the GM set up a HeroQuest to "Learn the Secret of Fire". Now, curly was known for his horrendously dangerous scenarios and this was no different. When we completed the HeroQuest, we were told the Secret of Fire, Curly had a huge grin on his face, as he leaned in towards us and whispered "It's hot and it burns things". Whoopdedo. So, we told everyone we could, when he was the GM, of the Secret of Fire, to his increasing annoyance. That is the kind of thing I can see Eurmal doing.

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Most of my experience with PC or NPC Tricksters is that they are useless buffoons.  Which is sad, they could be much more.

Raven Steals the Sun is my favorite folktale, where the Trickster does something "brave" and completely changes the World for the better.

And, "Raven Steals the Moon", well, what are Argrath and Kallyr et. al. waiting for?

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7 hours ago, soltakss said:

What would happen when 10,000 Tricksters are let loose on the world at the same time?

Probably very similar to what will happen when the Mad Sultanate is freed again from Tork. 😜

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41 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Most of my experience with PC or NPC Tricksters is that they are useless buffoons.  Which is sad, they could be much more.

My old Imther campaigns always had at least one, sometimes two, PC tricksters. They tended towards the mischievous, the politically incorrect, provocative, and sporadically disruptive. But very playable. And my favorite was an NPC trickster in a one-shot session set around a marriage where the bride turned out to be the trickster causing all sorts of confusion for the village. 

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22 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Probably very similar to what will happen when the Mad Sultanate is freed again from Tork. 😜

rude, Tricksters are not broo

 

 

oh god i just realised there are broo tricksters

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Spoilers I just remembered for Melisande’s Hand follow, great module so only read if you have played or ran it, really great module No, don’t do it, don’t click on.....

Laughing Loolie

is a great Eurmali Priestess, GREAT... When playing the contests you play this NPC first and foremost for laughs, but this lady is good... Treat her well and she will be of as much assistance as one can ask from such as her... and expect....I think she is a great NPC and as sympathetic as one will ever get in a priest or priestess of this cult. In other words, DUCK!

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13 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

rude, Tricksters are not broo

Assuming the Mad Sultanate has broo. For all we know, it's chaos may be completely different, yet equally strange and disruptive. They may have degenerated into things like Deep Ones or Shoggoths all ruled by a grotesque parody of the Red Emperor.

Edited by jajagappa

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5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Assuming the Mad Sultanate has broo. For all we know, it's chaos may be completely different, yet equally strange and disruptive. They may have degenerated into things like Deep Ones or Shoggoths all ruled by a grotesque parody of the Red Emperor.

RQ3 Dorastor: Land of Doom had the former inhabitants of Tork as the Gray Ones, degenerate humans with heaps of Chaos features, low intelligence clouded by madness, zero likability and no goat traits. They and the slime deer were at the bottom of the food chain.

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On 12/1/2019 at 12:02 AM, jajagappa said:

One was named Arkat. One is named Argrath. 

I don't believe they are Tricksters. But Argrath certainly has Tricksters that accompany him (currently Elusu, though he goes through a few over his career), and they are very likely Illuminated. I don't know of Arkat having Tricksters, but we don't know much about his companions. 

 

On 12/1/2019 at 12:02 AM, jajagappa said:

Are there tricksters aside those bellonging to Eurmal (and outside the Orlanthi, I've heard everyone else just kill them on sight)?

Many. Trickster is universal. The Orlanthi do make it easier by providing one socially acceptable role for Tricksters, but other societies do as well (for example, sometimes a type of shaman) and many societies have an 'officially outcast but viable' role such as professional thief, beggar, etc.

On 12/1/2019 at 12:06 AM, Eff said:

One wonders what Trickster looks like in Brithini society, but possibly in Arolanit Trickster goes around complimenting things for how grey and lifeless they are.

From Sartar Companion Eurmal write up "Verenilp of Rion (of Danmalastan) who was made of the Devil's shadow and whispers evil ideas into the ears of Malkioni."

Note that in some versions of the Lightbringers Quest, Eurmal joins the group when they rescue him from being executed as a criminal in Sorcerers Town in the West. 

On 12/1/2019 at 2:10 AM, Joerg said:

Pamalt is very much a positive trickster, with Bolongo combining all the evil aspects.

I do not believe Pamalt to have the Trickster nature. Quite the opposite, he is the culture hero who is the opposite of the Trickster. Pamalt is clever and innovative, but fundamentally honest and fair dealing. 

On 12/1/2019 at 2:10 AM, Joerg said:

Kadiola (a minor sea deity in Fonrit) might be the most beloved Trickster entity anywhere.

I think if you make the assumption that every deity who tricks someone once is a Trickster, you will get very much led into error. Orlanth tricks people multiple times - he is not a Trickster. Thief deities are not necessarily Tricksters, innovators are not necessarily Trickster, liars are not necessarily Trickster (though Trickster is all those things). There are multiple gods who have Illusion or Disorder powers but are not Tricksters (though may take some of that social role occasionally) from Zorak Zoran to Donanadar. 

On 12/2/2019 at 1:51 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

Also the reason Pamaltela has no dragons, so my pileus is off to him.

I'm unconvinced that Bolongo is the reason there are no Dragons. I don't think of Amuron as relating to Dragons as we know them, more like the Serpent-Beast of Hsunchen deep shamanism. It's an interesting speculation, though. 

On 12/2/2019 at 3:40 AM, soltakss said:

There are a lot of Tricksters who are not malignant little creeps, but a lot are.

Worshippers of Hyena sit around, telling people dirty jokes. That can be friendly, although not particularly useful.

Worshippers of Raven are thieves as well as Tricksters, and use illusion and darkness magic to hide and steal things. Whether or not they are friendly is up to the NPCs and the GM.

Some Eurmali are friendly buffoons, others are town drunks, others are seducers of women, others are village idiots, others are clowns who make you laugh and cry. Many Tricksters are a combination of all the above and more. Some can be friendly, some can be downright malignant, but all are predictable.

Tricksters have the Disorder rune, and cannot be relied on to be consistent. They all have a dark side. The worshippers of Hyena will also eat your carcass if they get the chance. The Raven can help your tribe - by stealing from others, which occasional alienates allies and brings huge troubles. They are NOT predictable, except that at some point it will go wrong. They fundamentally lack consistent empathy, common sense, and compassion - even the nice ones have self-centred or thoughtless streak, maybe that manifests in a way that is intended positively (say, trying to help you in a way that is poorly thought out and makes things worse). 

 

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On 12/2/2019 at 1:51 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

Ga emanated Herself as Gata when she produced two sons, the Earth Kings, Genert and Pamalt. Genert bore many daughters with Gata, the "grain goddesses" like Pela etc., but got ganked heroically during the Chaos Wars, leaving Prax and the Wastes where His Edenic garden used to be.

Roughly, yes. Gata in Genertela more or less the same as Yanmorla in Pamaltela. Genert of course had a whole court with many other deities who died with him. 

On 12/2/2019 at 1:51 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

Pamalt did not get ganked - He survived the Chaos Wars. He also didn't have grain children. Result: the Earth in Pamaltela (yes, that Pamalt) is worshipped in the form of Pamalt and Gata's daughter Earth Witch Aleshmara, who is the patron of yams.

Aleshmara is not the same being, or the same social role, as Serdrosa the Earth Witch. Thinking of her as the Pamaltelan cognate of Ernalda is wrong in the way the God Learners are usually wrong - but its still much more correct than thinking of her as the Pamaltelan cognate of Serdrosa. Look at her runes in the Guide - same runes as Ernalda - Harmony, Fertility, Earth, does not have Spirit (Serdrosa has Earth and Spirit). She has huge temples at the oases. Aleshmara is the patron of yams - and hens, and making huts, and gathering food generally, 

On 12/2/2019 at 1:51 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

I think beautiful Afidisa might also be an Earth goddess? But she's a Blue Person, a goddess from the Blue Moon, and she reminds me of Xiola Umbar. She's kind of an Earth goddess. Tangentially. Harmony and Fertility runes, Healing focus, but She's "throw back the ones unfit to live". I mean, c'mon, this is XU, right?

She is a Blue Moon goddess I thought. Even when she is given some land (the Camp of Innocence) her people remain mostly a marine people. I tend to think of her as her own thing - like XU, but linked to Blue Moon and/or Water powers. 

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

Apart from the greater and lesser hydras and possibly chaotic stoorworms, there are no draconic beings on Pamaltela.

Yes. The many chaotic hydrae could be another explanation for the lack of dragons (assuming the dragons actually lost their battle with chaos and became hydrae). Or it could be the many dinosaurs, and the strange way in which time works for both dragons and the Doraddi - perhaps the dragons of Pamaltela are yet to come, evolving from dinosaurs instead of devolving into them. For the moment, I prefer it as a mystery - but I don't think it has much to do with Amuron, who is the Horned God but not restricted to the vision of Man IMO. 

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

According to the Doraddi, the Aldryami are an invasive species, too, but the Aldryami have an ancient history of being allied to Pamalt. Possibly "the Other Pamalt" (as in Monty Python's "the other Kilimanjaro"). That said, the Doraddi invaded the coastal forests of Banamba, too.

It's worth remembering that the deforestation of Jolar took place in the context of the First Age elf wars, and that Pamalt was also the god that aided the elves of the Errinorru jungles against disease at the Sunstop. The Aldryami are far from unified, and it seems as if Pamalt was allied to some, but not all, and appears to have no anger against those that stay on the right side of the Fense. I think Pamalt took sides in the elf wars. 

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Doraddi voluntarily removed themselves from their previous urban civilization, electing a mix of nomadic and sedentary oasis life in the Veldt, while those who had followed Pamalt into the North may have been tricked by Bolongo (gotta stay on topic...) into retaining urban culture and other achievements.

That's one of those ideas that, whether or not it is canonically true, absolutely someone believes. 

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17 minutes ago, davecake said:

I don't believe they are Tricksters. But Argrath certainly has Tricksters that accompany him (currently Elusu, though he goes through a few over his career), and they are very likely Illuminated. I don't know of Arkat having Tricksters, but we don't know much about his companions. 

Arkat's very existence was a trick played on the Brithini Way of Life. It may not be fair to blame Arkat for bearing this trickster's blessing, and his subsequent career may be all about dealing with that. But Arkat and the Brithini crusade against Gbaji was a classical scapegoat externalization of a problem and throwing it at another problem.

But then, the entire scapegoat rite is the community tricking Fate or whichever other power may be involved.

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

I do not believe Pamalt to have the Trickster nature. Quite the opposite, he is the culture hero who is the opposite of the Trickster. Pamalt is clever and innovative, but fundamentally honest and fair dealing. 

Any big change, the Trickster is there - and Bolongo is left out of quite a few of Pamalt's actions.

Being "clever" is disruptive. So is innovation.

Creating the rules and then adhering to them is against Trickster nature, but if the rules are a cheat in themselves, breaking them at once isn't mandatory.

Pamalt's division of his lands between the forests and the lineage plant veldt may be fair, but how he did it wasn't honest.

 

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

I think if you make the assumption that every deity who tricks someone once is a Trickster, you will get very much led into error.

Every trick played is a manifestation of the Trickster. And it will nest in. There will be more opportunities, and each following one lowers the aversion  against using those means again. Some deities manage to externalize those urges, creating a scapegoat aspect that they can sever. Except when...

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

Orlanth tricks people multiple times - he is not a Trickster.

A trickster holding his own chain. Still struggling with that nature. Sending himself into exile... you could mark that down as being consistent and honorable, but viewed from a trickster's stool, it is a magnificent trick. Made even better when he cuckolded himself...

This entire "ruler of..." stick is a huge trick played on the world. Yelm sold his pyramid scheme by which he had usurped rulership as the Golden Age - now that's an achievement worthy of the Trickster's Hall of Fame. He got drunk and stuporous on his own power afterwards, though, but that's a Trickster's bane, too. (As is being sent to Hell for it.)

Zzabur is a trickster of the highest caliber. He betrayed just about everybody, including Malkion, brought willful destruction on those who displeased him, holds his population in thrall with a rather empty promise.

All of these deities that used tricks are tricks waiting to be released. And possibly dampened somewhat by greater insights picked up at some revelation. Which may be little more than just another trick.

 

Is it productive to view the world this way? Or is it a trick?

The author of the world named himself an Arkati Shaman Trickster. Go figure.

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

Thief deities are not necessarily Tricksters, innovators are not necessarily Trickster, liars are not necessarily Trickster (though Trickster is all those things).

Trickster is in all those things, and in all those perpretators.

Tricksters love rules. Rules that make others do things that can be exploited, rules that they can abuse in the spirit while obeying them to the letter. A trickster in a setting without rules has few if any chances to be.

Rules lawyers are tricksters.

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

There are multiple gods who have Illusion or Disorder powers but are not Tricksters (though may take some of that social role occasionally) from Zorak Zoran to Donanadar. 

Taking that social role - how is that different from being the Trickster?

Not taking the role predictably all the time - again, how is that different?

 

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

Tricksters have the Disorder rune, and cannot be relied on to be consistent.

Which, in itself, mandates this rule to be broken. 

And many of the Trickster entities are consistent most of the time. You won't find Raven swimming or deep underground, except when he became a victim of his own tricks and the myth gives you the opportunity to externalize one of your tricks by having him commit it for you as repayment for saving him.

Letting him drown may be rewarded positively, too...

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

They all have a dark side. The worshippers of Hyena will also eat your carcass if they get the chance. The Raven can help your tribe - by stealing from others, which occasional alienates allies and brings huge troubles. They are NOT predictable, except that at some point it will go wrong.

The only way to avoid the dark side is innocence - which makes Voria one of the few deities that may be exempt from being a Trickster at times. But then, innocence itself is a great temptation to seduce the rest of the world.

17 minutes ago, davecake said:

They fundamentally lack consistent empathy, common sense, and compassion - even the nice ones have self-centred or thoughtless streak, maybe that manifests in a way that is intended positively (say, trying to help you in a way that is poorly thought out and makes things worse). 

Everything after the Green Age.

Tricksters adore the Green Age. And they adore breaking it.

 

I think the entire distinction is really about externalizing the Trickster, about clinging to the delusion that "it isn't me".

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14 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:
14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Probably very similar to what will happen when the Mad Sultanate is freed again from Tork. 😜

rude, Tricksters are not broo

The Mad Sultanate are not broo. They were formed when a Lunar Army say the Crimson Bat for the first time, I believe, and went mad. They live in Dorastor, with the Mad Sultan leading them.

14 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

oh god i just realised there are broo tricksters

Just don't give them Remove (body part), otherwise you'll get stealth breeding.

Edited by soltakss
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6 hours ago, davecake said:
On 12/1/2019 at 5:51 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

Ga emanated Herself as Gata when she produced two sons, the Earth Kings, Genert and Pamalt. Genert bore many daughters with Gata, the "grain goddesses" like Pela etc., but got ganked heroically during the Chaos Wars, leaving Prax and the Wastes where His Edenic garden used to be.

Roughly, yes. Gata in Genertela more or less the same as Yanmorla in Pamaltela. Genert of course had a whole court with many other deities who died with him. 

Ah, another layer of the onion that is the Deep Earth is revealed, thanks.

For some reason, I never saw the reason why we have Ga and Gata as Primal Earths, now it makes sense. Ga was The Earth Cube, with Gata and Yanmorla as mega-Land Goddesses, both with horny brothers. 

I wonder if Ga had any other Daughters, the equivalent of Gata, for the lands that have been sunk. The area around the Spike might be one, the very far, mythical East/West might be others.

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22 hours ago, Charles said:

And magically, Trickster gets some control over their own body and magic that they do not get without the bond.

Could you explain that?

 

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

If you build a structure to house Tricksters, wouldn't you build it pretty fool-proof to keep maintenance cost down?

Yes, I think I would.

It's just that I can't help but feel like that temple is a plot hook wating to happen. A (potentially, I still prefer a more positive slant on tricksters) very volatile one at that.

 

21 hours ago, Joerg said:

God Learner raids into the Hero Plane

Actually, mentioning this. Who does that actually happen. I get the  impression those raids aren't like normal HeroQests.

 

21 hours ago, soltakss said:

One of the Events in the Hero Wars, for me, is when someone does this and breaks the wave, releasing the Tricksters. What would happen when 10,000 Tricksters are let loose on the world at the same time?

Interesting times, obviously. Let's go do it (you go first).

 

20 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

The new GaGoG says Nandan allows people who normally don't have the equipment for birth to bear children

I have to ask. How? ( I mean, I undertstand why. If nandan couldn't bear children the cult of Ernalda and similar ciults would have a really obvious glass cieling for every nandan alive so that's not my question. Just, how does it work?)

 

14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Probably very similar to what will happen when the Mad Sultanate is freed again from Tork.

Now I have to as what the Mad Sultanate is.

 

14 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

oh god i just realised there are broo tricksters

A broo trickster must be someome who doesn't impregnate animals or spread disease. They probably impregnate objects instead and cure people from diseases while having them remain carriers of said disease. They (sometime) probably look like normal people too.

 

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2 minutes ago, None said:

They probably impregnate objects instead

Broo impregnating objects, now there's an idea. Rock Broo with heavy armour, Tree Broo that are like very bad Ents, bonfire Broo for very brave Fathers.

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3 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Broo impregnating objects, now there's an idea. Rock Broo with heavy armour, Tree Broo that are like very bad Ents, bonfire Broo for very brave Fathers.

Just now I'm imagining a Shovel Broo bursting out of someones shovel, while the're using it. Now there's a cause for a heart attack.

Edited by None
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1 minute ago, None said:

I have to ask. How? ( I mean, I undertstand why. If nandan couldn't bear children the cult of Ernalda and similar ciults would have a really obvious glass cieling for every nandan alive so that's not my question. Just, how does it work?)

 

Now I have to as what the Mad Sultanate is.

Depending on your game/story/personal vision of Glorantha, either 1) a divine vaginoplasty, complete with implanted uterus and ovaries (I think it's pretty well implied from various sources that the former, at least, is completely possible and so this is probably the most "accurate" answer if there ever were an official one), 2) the birth happens entirely on the Otherside via magic, 3) a phantom pregnancy that ends with an adorable giant snake/lizard coming into the stead with a bundled baby attached for delivery. (It could also potentially be a stork but I personally love the Ernalda/Earth connection with reptiles), 4) any/all of the above depending on the person.

At the First Battle of Chaos, seeing the dead return to life and seeing the Red Goddess fly forth on the Crimson Bat, its eyes gleaming in all directions with enlightenment, its tongues drooling in hunger as it spotted the Carmanian forces, well, it spontaneously Illuminated a great many people, but in a way that led them to be heavily Chaotic and also crazy. Their leader became known as the "Mad Sultan". They proceeded to wander Peloria. Early in the First Wane, the anti-Lunar hero Jannisor Moonchaser managed to lure them into Tork, a region of Saird just south of the Imther Mountains, and seal them away from the rest of the world. The Lunar Empire has attempted to maintain this seal, though it behaves irregularly (as anything Lunar or Chaotic, and in this case both, will do) and expands or shrinks unpredictably, pulling people in or spitting out denizens. 

The first Mad Sultan escaped during the wars against Sheng Seleris, and he was the one who killed the first Mask of the Red Emperor for the last time (along with the last Tarshite king of the original dynasty). He currently lives in Dorastor with some of his followers. There are possibly other Mad Sultanates scattered around the Lunar Empire, though none quite as large or with as deadly a history. 

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