Jump to content

Questions About Hit Points By Location


Old Man Henerson

Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

One system I used a long time a go was to use locations but not track location hit points. Instead I used major wounds, with the locations determining where. It actually worked out fairly well, since  it's not like 1 point of damage is going to disable a limb or anything.

Thank you. That is exactly what I am looking for. I liked the idea of the locations getting damaged and the PCs having to work around it, but the whole thing just seemed so complicated. This will help me emencely. Thank you.

24 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I wouldn't advise in making  NPC damage any  more complicated that PC damage, as  no one except the GM will usually care.

What I was thinking here was in terms of week points or limbs that the PCs would want to disable, like the wings of a creature, a tail that has a venomous stinger, or the ever classic giant eye.

Edited by Old Man Henerson
Spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

That could definitely be a problem with collapseing all the time. I am leaning towards major wounds now, especially since keeping track of each limb's hit points sounds rather tedious. Although I wonder if location system could be used on enemies rather than PCs.

I find per-location HP's very quick, very easy... with the right character-sheet.

When I discovered RuneQuest as a player (back before "BRP," which was the game Chaosium got by striping away all the RQ-specific setting stuff & genre-inclined mechanics, and generally simplified RQ), the character-sheets had a little figure of a humanoid... not so much "stick figure" as boxes stacked together.  Each box had a micro stat-block, and listed both the location-name and the d20 roll for hitting it.

Recording HP's onto this figure (and adjusting for per-location armor) was just as easy as doing it for a single-line "sack of HP's" track.  It had the intuitive visual structure, and it had the descriptive labels, and it had the numerical hit-locations... whatever your preferred way of looking or thinking, it worked.

===

I advise against giving the GM ANY combat-bookkeeping chore (for multiple NPC's) that is too onerous to ask each player to manage for their own single PC!!!

When I began GM'ing RQ, I quickly discovered that there wasn't an equivalent sheet for dealing with multiple NPC's, and my quick tricks for handling bunches of NPC's in D&D (or the similar systems) didn't work.

I had to write up my own sheets (which I never translated into any online format, so I can't share), but I found the little "humanoid-shaped group of micro-statblocks" was critical to managing things quickly.  I wouldn't even attempt to GM a game of RQ anymore, without pre-creating these. 

  • Like 1

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Thank you. That is exactly what I am looking for. I liked the idea of the locations getting damaged and the PCs having to work around it, but the whole thing just seemed so complicated. This will help me emencely. Thank you.

SO you really only want hit locations to play  up vulnerabilities or for window dressing.

1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

What I was thinking here was in terms of week points or limbs that the PCs would want to disable, like the wings of a creature, a tail that has a venomous stinger, or the ever classic giant eye.

Well you  could use hit locations there or just allow for called shots (at half ability) to hit the desired location. You don't need to go into more detail than that.

  • Like 1

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Atgxtg said:

...

Well you  could use hit locations there or just allow for called shots (at half ability) to hit the desired location. You don't need to go into more detail than that.

If you're using any sort of "called shot" system, you need some way to decide not only if that called shot HITS, but if it disables the location...  FrEx, Inigo Montoya famously got pierced in the shoulder, but did NOT drop his sword...

  • Like 1

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I find per-location HP's very quick, very easy... with the right character-sheet.

When I discovered RuneQuest as a player (back before "BRP," which was the game Chaosium got by striping away all the RQ-specific setting stuff & genre-inclined mechanics, and generally simplified RQ), the character-sheets had a little figure of a humanoid... not so much "stick figure" as boxes stacked together.  Each box had a micro stat-block, and listed both the location-name and the d20 roll for hitting it.

Recording HP's onto this figure (and adjusting for per-location armor) was just as easy as doing it for a single-line "sack of HP's" track.  It had the intuitive visual structure, and it had the descriptive labels, and it had the numerical hit-locations... whatever your preferred way of looking or thinking, it worked.

Yeah, maybe I should try it out before I decide wich way to go. The character sheet you gave me should do the trick for my game. And they will look sufficiently sci-fi for the setting.

5 hours ago, g33k said:

===

I advise against giving the GM ANY combat-bookkeeping chore (for multiple NPC's) that is too onerous to ask each player to manage for their own single PC!!!

When I began GM'ing RQ, I quickly discovered that there wasn't an equivalent sheet for dealing with multiple NPC's, and my quick tricks for handling bunches of NPC's in D&D (or the similar systems) didn't work.

I had to write up my own sheets (which I never translated into any online format, so I can't share), but I found the little "humanoid-shaped group of micro-statblocks" was critical to managing things quickly.  I wouldn't even attempt to GM a game of RQ anymore, without pre-creating these. 

So did you do the same thing for NPCs as what you did for the PCs with the little boxes?

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

SO you really only want hit locations to play  up vulnerabilities or for window dressing.

Well you  could use hit locations there or just allow for called shots (at half ability) to hit the desired location. You don't need to go into more detail than that.

If hit points by location don't work out, I think I will try it that way or go back to the original major wounds system.

4 hours ago, g33k said:

If you're using any sort of "called shot" system, you need some way to decide not only if that called shot HITS, but if it disables the location...  FrEx, Inigo Montoya famously got pierced in the shoulder, but did NOT drop his sword...

Good point, though obviously, the sheer power of saying, "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die," is more than sufficient for sustaining the human body. 😉

Edited by Old Man Henerson
Spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Thank you. That is exactly what I am looking for. I liked the idea of the locations getting damaged and the PCs having to work around it, but the whole thing just seemed so complicated. This will help me emencely. Thank you.

What I was thinking here was in terms of week points or limbs that the PCs would want to disable, like the wings of a creature, a tail that has a venomous stinger, or the ever classic giant eye.

Just FYI this is going into a custom wound and HP hybrid system halfway through general and localised.
Nothing wrong with that, but if you were looking for a simplified versions.. well, it ain't it!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Yeah, maybe I should try it out before I decide wich way to go. The character sheet you gave me should do the trick for my game. And they will look sufficiently sci-fi for the setting.

...

So did you do the same thing for NPCs as what you did for the PCs with the little boxes?

Yeah, but only for large numbers of minor NPCs; major/recurring NPC's got a full work-up including a full character-sheet.

IIRC the "minor NPCs" sheet was 6 (or 8?) mini-sheets on each page, so each NPC had a roughly index-card sized mini-sheet of their own.

Each mini-sheet was about half-filled with the little minifigure icon, and beside it was a VERY abbreviated statblock:  just name (or other identifier), 1-3 skills, a relevant stat or two (e.g. in case STR-v-STR contest came up, or whatever).  Combat skills for a combat encounter, social skills for court, etc.  If I was really confident there'd be no combat, I used a different format without the diagram:  that diagram is a pretty combat-centric thing to be half of the sheet in a noncombat scene.

# # #

There's a few sheets online that show different versions of the figure in question... 

Here's the free "RQClassic" handouts (with the old "Sapienza Mk iv" sheet on page 14).  Note it's a VERY primitive sheet, laid out AFAIK on a typewriter!

https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/RuneQuest/Classic/CHA4002 - RQ2 Classic Player Handouts.pdf

 

See the official RQG sheet here:

https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/RuneQuest/Character Sheets/RuneQuest Glorantha - Character Sheet - Fillable.pdf

 

Or this sheet (found online a while ago, don't remember where; I just now uploaded here):

https://basicroleplaying.org/files/file/787-rq2_charsheet_landscape/

 

If you're going to try HP-by-location, I cannot praise this approach highly enough!   OTOH, I know some people who just like the little table of d20-location, as per the sheet I originally pointed out to you... and ALL THREE of the sheets above are specific to RQ, not general BRP let alone anything sci-fi-ish (which is what you want?) .

 

Edited by g33k
  • Like 1

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to go the other way from hit locations and beyond even general hits, I tried a hitpointless system based on Ray Turney's Fire and Sword for my Swords of Cydoria campaign, which is a science fantasy campaign. I wanted a system where carrying swords and blasters was practical. It does cut down on management of NPCs in combat because you only care about one thing: can they still fight? (Morale is a different matter). You don't track hit points at all, and it's only players who you care if they are alive at the end of the fight. It worked pretty well for that system. It works quite well for guns because shock from a ballistic impact can knock someone out of a fight even if it doesn't kill them.

Ray's design notes for Fire and Sword are gold, by the way. They are in the download section.

 

Edited by Questbird
Added a note about guns
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if Revolution D100 was inspired by this pointless system.. err, I mean hitpointless :P

Basically anything below Toughness (which is the same as your normal HP though calculated more simply) is just a "small flesh wound" that add a minor stun effect for the round... (and some ongoing tiredness as well...)

Above toughness it's where you start counting.. but any such blow has potentially dire consequences...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, g33k said:

Yeah, but only for large numbers of minor NPCs; major/recurring NPC's got a full work-up including a full character-sheet.

IIRC the "minor NPCs" sheet was 6 (or 8?) mini-sheets on each page, so each NPC had a roughly index-card sized mini-sheet of their own.

Each mini-sheet was about half-filled with the little minifigure icon, and beside it was a VERY abbreviated statblock:  just name (or other identifier), 1-3 skills, a relevant stat or two (e.g. in case STR-v-STR contest came up, or whatever).  Combat skills for a combat encounter, social skills for court, etc.  If I was really confident there'd be no combat, I used a different format without the diagram:  that diagram is a pretty combat-centric thing to be half of the sheet in a noncombat scene.

# # #

There's a few sheets online that show different versions of the figure in question... 

Here's the free "RQClassic" handouts (with the old "Sapienza Mk iv" sheet on page 14).  Note it's a VERY primitive sheet, laid out AFAIK on a typewriter!

https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/RuneQuest/Classic/CHA4002 - RQ2 Classic Player Handouts.pdf

 

See the official RQG sheet here:

https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/RuneQuest/Character Sheets/RuneQuest Glorantha - Character Sheet - Fillable.pdf

 

Or this sheet (found online a while ago, don't remember where; I just now uploaded here):

https://basicroleplaying.org/files/file/787-rq2_charsheet_landscape/

 

If you're going to try HP-by-location, I cannot praise this approach highly enough!   OTOH, I know some people who just like the little table of d20-location, as per the sheet I originally pointed out to you... and ALL THREE of the sheets above are specific to RQ, not general BRP let alone anything sci-fi-ish (which is what you want?) .

 

Thanks for the help. I am working on a science fiction campaign, but I think your first sheet was general enough to work. I amusing psychic powers in it anyway so powers are not an issue. I think what I should do is try out the system and see if it is good, then I will decide if I want to keep it or go back to major wounds. Thanks a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Questbird said:

If you want to go the other way from hit locations and beyond even general hits, I tried a hitpointless system based on Ray Turney's Fire and Sword for my Swords of Cydoria campaign, which is a science fantasy campaign. I wanted a system where carrying swords and blasters was practical. It does cut down on management of NPCs in combat because you only care about one thing: can they still fight? (Morale is a different matter). You don't track hit points at all, and it's only players who you care if they are alive at the end of the fight. It worked pretty well for that system. It works quite well for guns because shock from a ballistic impact can knock someone out of a fight even if it doesn't kill them.

Ray's design notes for Fire and Sword are gold, by the way. They are in the download section.

 

It sounds like an interesting system, but it sounds like rolling a fumble might be mor lethal than having hit points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Old Man Henerson said:

... I think your first sheet was general enough to work ... 

The main point of all those links to sheets was to show examples of the (IMHO vastly more functional) "humanoid" shaped HP-by-location diagram.

Sadly, all the ones I have found are specifically for RQ.  I'm pretty sure I have seen a general BRP one... but I've no recollection of WHERE.  🙄

 

And I guess, while we're on the topic... it's worth mentioning the custom dice from Q-workshop:

https://q-workshop.com/en/rpg-dice-sets/1040/runequest-beige-burgundy-expansion-dice-3

They have an oversized d20 with the hit-locations instead of 1-20.  AFAIK, you need to get the whole set, they don't sell the hit-location die alone.

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, g33k said:

The main point of all those links to sheets was to show examples of the (IMHO vastly more functional) "humanoid" shaped HP-by-location diagram.

Sadly, all the ones I have found are specifically for RQ.  I'm pretty sure I have seen a general BRP one... but I've no recollection of WHERE.  🙄

 

And I guess, while we're on the topic... it's worth mentioning the custom dice from Q-workshop:

https://q-workshop.com/en/rpg-dice-sets/1040/runequest-beige-burgundy-expansion-dice-3

They have an oversized d20 with the hit-locations instead of 1-20.  AFAIK, you need to get the whole set, they don't sell the hit-location die alone.

@G33K pm me your email address and I will share the BRP character sheet I have with you. It's as ugly as sin but it does (sort of) have a body depicted with localized hit points..

Check out our homebrew rules for freeform magic in BRP ->

No reason for Ars Magica players to have all the fun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SDLeary said:

If we are still talking about "squad" sheets, you might be thinking of the MagicWorld one. 

SDLeary

In this dauy an age does  anybody still use the squad sheets? I figure it would be easier to just type something up on a PC. 

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

In this dauy an age does  anybody still use the squad sheets? I figure it would be easier to just type something up on a PC. 

Sure! Why recreate the wheel when there is a perfectly good one for use on that rack over there. And this one is form-fillable!

SDLeary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

In this dauy an age does  anybody still use the squad sheets? I figure it would be easier to just type something up on a PC. 

Huh?

It's a form-fillable sheet, so do it on your PC -or- your Mac!

I mean... Better it be organized on a sheet than just entered in a notepad app or word-processor, right?

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, rsanford said:

I uploaded a BRP fantasy character sheet not developed by me here ->

Simple, functional.  There was a big hoo-ra about art/etc on sheets' this won't please the "need moar art" side of the debate, but I'm kinda art-agnostic... appreciate3 it being there & well done, but not very attached.

]I like this'un...  TYVM!

Edited by g33k
whitespace

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

It sounds like an interesting system, but it sounds like rolling a fumble might be mor lethal than having hit points.

 

Not really.

In both systems, I am assuming you failed a parry and your opponent succeeded in his/her attack roll.

In a normal hit points system (let's say a non-hit location one for simplicity), here's how to die:

  1. They roll damage, you subtract armour. If the total is more than your hit points, you are dead.

In the hitpointless system in order to die 'on the spot':

  1. You must fail a Resilience check (which factors in the damage of the attacker's weapon and your armour) -- that takes you out of the fight
  2. After the fight you must roll a Fumble on a CON x5 roll. If so you are beyond help. Otherwise you are alive, for now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Questbird said:

Not really.

In both systems, I am assuming you failed a parry and your opponent succeeded in his/her attack roll.

In a normal hit points system (let's say a non-hit location one for simplicity), here's how to die:

  1. They roll damage, you subtract armour. If the total is more than your hit points, you are dead.

In the hitpointless system in order to die 'on the spot':

  1. You must fail a Resilience check (which factors in the damage of the attacker's weapon and your armour) -- that takes you out of the fight
  2. After the fight you must roll a Fumble on a CON x5 roll. If so you are beyond help. Otherwise you are alive, for now.

I see, thanks for the Ideas, I am not sure I am ready to leave hit points behind yet, I am was a AD&D after all, but they are a very interesting set of rules to work with.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...