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Jolt

Upgrading my books

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I haven't kept up with the most recent (and even not so recent) Pendragon releases due to a variety of RL issues.  However, I do want to get these books upgraded but it's going to take awhile and I'm not sure what publications I should start with.  My most recent copy of the Core Rulebook is version 5.1.  My copies of The Book of Manor/Battle/Armies/Knight & Ladies are the softcovers released between 2007 and 2009.  I can probably afford to get any two books right now and the rest later.  I'd rather get books that are the most different from the originals first but I don't know which ones those are.  Also, there are some books (like the Book of Sires and Book of Feasts) that I don't have at all.  Which ones would you recommend picking up first?  Thanks!

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If you haven't got it, the Great Pendragon Campaign.

The Book of Sires provides detailed family history back to Vortigern and Constantine's days for a PC. It's useful if you want the players to have a deeper connection to the history and are starting in 485 or so.

Book of Feasts is useful for any campaign, as feasts and parties are a regular part of chivalric roleplaying.

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I'll whole-heartedly echo GPC.

For me, Book of the Entourage would be an obvious second choice.

I am hearing very nice things about the Book of Feasts (save for some issues of Glory inflation, if the feasts happen often), so if you like to add something to spice up your Spring Court, it might be worth it.

As Jeff said, the usability of Book of Sires depends a lot on what you are planning to do with your campaign. It is an excellent resource for family history, especially if you have characters coming outside of Salisbury, or if you are setting the game some where other than Salisbury. Or if you are intending to play a prequel campaign in the sub-Roman Britain, with Vortigern and Saxons arriving and all that stuff. (Full disclosure: I also worked extensively with Bob on that book, so I am somewhat biased. :P )

I would not bother updating KAP 5.1 -> 5.2, as it was mainly a layout update, with very limited corrections. You are fine with 5.1.

Book of Manor is superseded (and quite well) by Book of the Estate, which fixes many loopholes and balancing issues with BoM. Worth picking up if base-building is a thing you like to do, but not really essential for the game.

I prefer Book of Warlord over the Book of Uther.

I don't think Book of the Knights & Ladies has been updated... I hear that there is an update in the works, though.

As I dislike both Book of Battles and Book of Armies, I cannot offer you advice on those... I don't recall when Book of Battles was updated to BoB2, and I am not sure BoA has been updated ever.

Some more stuff in here: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/9244-prioritizing-the-5th-edition-supplements/

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I put another vote for the GPC. It  is probably the key supplement, as it lays out the major events and gives you a solid timeline.

After that I think I'd go with the Book of the Estate as it gives you the updated economic foundation and basically replaces Book of the Manor as well. 

I'd recommend getting the PDF or PDF+Hard copies, since that lets you upgrade the PDFs later when they  get updated.

The Book of the Entourage is nice, and probably would be my third recommendation as it has a new wife table, updates the squire and wife rules, and  works pretty well with Estate.

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, basically Book of the Manor has been replaced by Book of the Estate, and it's got family survival tables in it too, so I do recommend it, but you can get by without it if you only have money to get 2. I really enjoy Book of Battle 2, and find it an improvement over the first one. You didn't mention if you have Book of the Entourage, if not, it's pretty good for rules on marriage, wives, squires, and some detail on servants, though a lot of the servant stuff is also presented in Book of the Estate. Books of Warlord and Uther kind of go hand in hand with Estate, there's a lot of good info in them, but unless you're wanting to run the extra 5 years that Book of Uther adds to the GPC timeline, I wouldn't think of them as priorities. Book of Sires is amazing for generating family histories, which is my jam, and possibly my favorite book out of the lot of them, aside from GPC. Book of Feasts is fun, and it's pretty cheap too, if that helps. Book of Knights and Ladies is getting an update soon, but we don't really no how long that will be; as much as I enjoy BoKaL, I'm looking forward to it. Armies has no update, it works just fine with BoB2, and while I'd like to see a revision on it at some point, I don't think it should be a high priority.

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Thanks!  this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.  I do actually have the GPC; I just forgot to mention it.  Looks like I'll start with Estate and Entourage and then Sires and Feasts after that.  Then, eventually, Warlord and Uther.  Thanks again!

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1 hour ago, Jolt said:

Thanks!  this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.  I do actually have the GPC; I just forgot to mention it.  Looks like I'll start with Estate and Entourage and then Sires and Feasts after that.  Then, eventually, Warlord and Uther.  Thanks again!

In that case I'd say start with Estate, then decide between Warlord (which gives you a  better overview of the power blocks, how many knights are about, and  ties in well with estate, showing what some lords  have for an income), or Entourage.

The Book of Uther is useful; for the extra 5 years to the timeline, which you can get separately for $5, and the timeline, which  you can g et for free. The NPCs and  other information is interesting, but,  IMO a lower priority , as the PKS  won't be rubbing elbows with those people.

The Book of Sires is nice for background, but kinda moot once the campaign is going. So if you've already started and used the family background tables in the rulebook, you don't really  need Sires and won't go back to it. Not that it is ab ad product, just that it's designed to help you work out your father's and grandfather's story.

 

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11 hours ago, Call Me Deacon Blues said:

 Armies has no update, it works just fine with BoB2, and while I'd like to see a revision on it at some point, I don't think it should be a high priority.

Armies does have a lot of errors and typos, plus a few superhuman units. I think Greg had started some work on a revision. In fact most of the early editions do. Check out t he elephant sized camels in K&L.

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

The Book of Sires is nice for background, but kinda moot once the campaign is going. So if you've already started and used the family background tables in the rulebook, you don't really  need Sires and won't go back to it. Not that it is ab ad product, just that it's designed to help you work out your father's and grandfather's story.

You know, I am really tempted to come up with some rules to 'play' through the Book of Sires, rather than just roll 1d20.I mean, there are a few built-in decision years, but it might be fun to come up with some mini-game where you could actually roll the Grandfather's & Father's skills and passions more. Granted, that might also be a bit limiting in a way, a the current random d20 will give full reign to imagination. Did the Grandfather get lucky when he performed Heroically in Battle X, or was he a born badass?

Anyway, I am just thinking that it might give a bit more of an oomph to the backstory if the whole group gets together and plays (rolls) out the Grandfather's history during one session and Father's during the next one, and only then make their own characters. See what intersection points there are between the various ancestors, did they meet at the court of Vortigern back in the day? Did they fight in some of the same battles? The fathers are very likely to fight in the March of Aurelius, although it is not a sure thing, either.

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28 minutes ago, Morien said:

You know, I am really tempted to come up with some rules to 'play' through the Book of Sires, rather than just roll 1d20.I mean, there are a few built-in decision years, but it might be fun to come up with some mini-game where you could actually roll the Grandfather's & Father's skills and passions more. Granted, that might also be a bit limiting in a way, a the current random d20 will give full reign to imagination. Did the Grandfather get lucky when he performed Heroically in Battle X, or was he a born badass?

Anyway, I am just thinking that it might give a bit more of an oomph to the backstory if the whole group gets together and plays (rolls) out the Grandfather's history during one session and Father's during the next one, and only then make their own characters. See what intersection points there are between the various ancestors, did they meet at the court of Vortigern back in the day? Did they fight in some of the same battles? The fathers are very likely to fight in the March of Aurelius, although it is not a sure thing, either.

I've kinda been doing just t hat. Since I'm running through the time covered under SIRES, I have used the book as a timeline, and played through the events. Since the backup PKs are at Budec's court with Aurelius and Uther, I've used a simplified battle system to handle those characters during times where the main characters have an adventure. 

I used one of the old methods Greg handled a battle with a series of skill rolls, and tied glory to each roll. 

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19 hours ago, Morien said:

You know, I am really tempted to come up with some rules to 'play' through the Book of Sires, rather than just roll 1d20.I mean, there are a few built-in decision years, but it might be fun to come up with some mini-game where you could actually roll the Grandfather's & Father's skills and passions more. Granted, that might also be a bit limiting in a way, a the current random d20 will give full reign to imagination. Did the Grandfather get lucky when he performed Heroically in Battle X, or was he a born badass?

Anyway, I am just thinking that it might give a bit more of an oomph to the backstory if the whole group gets together and plays (rolls) out the Grandfather's history during one session and Father's during the next one, and only then make their own characters. See what intersection points there are between the various ancestors, did they meet at the court of Vortigern back in the day? Did they fight in some of the same battles? The fathers are very likely to fight in the March of Aurelius, although it is not a sure thing, either.

Please do.
That could be quite entertaining.

Then again, I also want all of the other cut material for SIRES... so... I just want more of that 😄

Edited by KungFuFenris

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