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Bolas and lasso


Jon Hunter

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4 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

Bolas and lasso seem very praxian weapons to me, but don't appear in RQG rules.

Are they praxian weapons?

Bolas are the signature weapon of the Bolo Lizard riders, and a manifestation of their Mobility rune.

The lariat is actually a tool associated with Orlanth (or Little Brother) in overcoming the Storm Bull, accompanied by a sharp stick. Sounds like something the Pol-Joni are using. Beast Riders have little need for lassoing herd beasts of their own tribe, although beasts from other tribes on raids are a suitable target for lassoing. I cannot see a reasonable scenario for Impala riders using lassos, though.

If the Orlanthi have bull-fighting, their matadors will wear very little (if anything at all but woad) and wield a lariat and a stick, and victory is by taming the bull. Possibly gelding it, possibly preparing it a sacrifice, possibly as the first part of a ritual plowing of heroic proportions with the un-gelded bull under the yoke. (The Frankish Merowing dynasty had a ritual where the king steered a cart or chariot drawn by bulls, in the role of Woden, with unkempt (long) hair and beard. Charlemagne's chronicler Einhard in all likelihood failed to recognize or at least corroborate the pagan motifs of this rite.)

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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The pole lasso (a common herding tool in real world cultures, such as Mongolia) is included in RQG, but not the thrown lasso, which is a different beast.  Personally, for my Sartarite outlaw herd rustler, I just used the pole lasso stats, called it a thrown lasso, and agreed with the GM to give it a marginally longer range.

As Joerg points out, the bolas are used by at least one notable Praxian tribe.  A while back I banged out a conversion of the BRP bola stats for RQG (along with the bullwhip).

!i!

Edited by Ian Absentia

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Bolas, Lassos and Nets are all flexible non-lethal weapons that are used to capture not kill (fish dying in nets is somewhat incidental).  Perhaps we need a new proficiency?  I don't think they have much in common with whips and flails, so a generalized flexible weapon skill seems undesirable.

Edited by Darius West
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16 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Bolas, Lassos and Nets are all flexible non-lethal weapons that are used to capture not kill (fish dying in nets is somewhat incidental).  Perhaps we need a new proficiency?  I don't think they have much in common with whips and flails, so a generalized flexible weapon skill seems undesirable.

Bolas and lariats basically are thrown weapons, much like harpoons with attached lines are. Same with thrown nets. I'd add the grappling hook or a ball-and-chain which allows you to lengthen the flexible bit under such rules, too, even if they otherwise may be using the rules for flails and morning stars.

Nets or cloaks slung around the arm rather than being tossed are a different proposition. Ball-and-chain or grappling hooks aren't too different if the extra give on the flexible part is limited to the length of a normal cloak, either. Nets and cloaks may have to be weighted on the edges for this sort of application.

Pole lassos  are mostly rigid weapons, but with a similar goal. We have a similar weapon with the entangling clubs of the runners in the Bestiary, although you don't usually strike out with the rigid part of a pole lasso. A grappling hook on a pole (basically a hooked flail) might be used in this manner, too. But then, so do the hooks on a number of pole arms I don't know the proper names for. Basically, this might be a skill for an entangling pole arm, and one way to model this is to take the example from the RQ-skill Martial Arms which is a secondary mode skill (not requiring an extra attack roll when combined with one of the unarmed attack or parry actions) that comes into play if the die roll is both under the (modified) attack roll and the (ideally also modified) additional skill role.

Edited by Joerg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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8 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Nets or cloaks slung around the arm rather than being tossed are a different proposition. Ball-and-chain or grappling hooks aren't too different if the extra give on the flexible part is limited to the length of a normal cloak, either. Nets and cloaks may have to be weighted on the edges for this sort of application.

 

We need some good non lethal combat for sure... hand to hand, grapple, Knock back ( I believe we are missing the last two?), I mean we now have subdued and I think I saw attacking a weapon to disarm as well, but in this game where killing the wrong farmer could cost you the income of 5 cottars, well, I for one I want to know that there is always another option. 

Cheers

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10 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

We need some good non lethal combat for sure... hand to hand, grapple, Knock back ( I believe we are missing the last two?), I mean we now have subdued and I think I saw attacking a weapon to disarm as well, but in this game where killing the wrong farmer could cost you the income of 5 cottars, well, I for one I want to know that there is always another option.

"Non-lethal" weapons still can cause death, even if that is not the intention of the user. Including lariats and bolas on head hits, at least for humanoids.

P.24 of the Bestiary introduces the Whipstick for the Runners:
 

Quote

 

Weapon               %              Damage      SR           Pts
Whipstick *         50                  1D6          7               6

* Wraps around and immobilizes location struck. Match victim’s STR vs. runner’s STR + the whipstick’s points to escape. Strangles target on a head hit.

 

This obviously works only because the stick is a living plant, but it isn't hard to conceive a weapon based on some sort of "insect on a stick" doing a similar job for trollkin or insect herders, or a tentacled thing on a stick for underwater attacks (e.g. a sea anemone with its poison).

 

Both The Rattling Wind and The Whispering Ruins give their main baddy a flexible, entangling weapon a lot harder to destroy than any of the stuff mentioned earlier here.

 

The grappling rules leave much to be desired, but they exist. But then, I haven't found any good way to simulate throws and holds and how to counteract them anywhere else, either. The Mythras combat styles might cover something like that, but that system is not really compatible with RQG combat.

Edited by Joerg
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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

"Non-lethal" weapons still can cause death, even if that is not the intention of the user. Including lariats and bolas on head hits, at least for humanoids.

 

Granted but at a 250 Crowns (might I suggest Crowns for the new silver) as a buy in for one mistaken farmer death, Im I will take the odds that might keep the farmer alive, befuddle, stolen elven Whipsticks, holding a musket on him and saying”HOLD”, grapples, what have you...

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The grappling rules leave much to be desired, but they exist. But then, I haven't found any good way to simulate throws and holds and how to counteract them anywhere else, either. The Mythras combat styles might cover something like that, but that system is not really compatible with RQG combat.

I think RQ 3 comes out about the best that I have seen for non lethal (usually, it is still LimbRuneQuest after all). I have high hopes for RQ G.

Edited by Bill the barbarian

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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On 12/22/2019 at 10:08 PM, Jon Hunter said:

Bolas and lasso seem very praxian weapons to me, but don't appear in RQG rules.

Are they praxian weapons?

Bolas - yes

Lasso, no Pole lasso - yes, but not really a weapon.

Mongolian herders are a good example of this with the Urga. See the film with the same name for cool urga action. Alternatively see it from the goPro strapped to the Urga:

https://www.uclmal.com/hermione-spriggs

alternative music version 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NG8lzTQGHw

The rules were in Different Worlds #22, July 1982, Eight New Weapons for RuneQuest by Paul Cardwell, Jr.

https://www.diffworlds.com/different_worlds.htm sadly this is is sold out, but others are still on sale.

Quote

 

Lasso Thrown str9 dex13 No damage hp5 cost15 enc1 range 10m rate 1/5MR base05% training 0-25=500 30-50=1000 55-75=1500 75+EXPonly.

The thrown lasso is the familiar one from rodeos and westerns. The standing end is made fast to the horn of the saddle , a running loop (one that can change size) is made in the other end, and it is thrown over the target, trapping it in the loop. It requires a hard rope and considerable practice to handle properly . 

The differences in HP and cost are due to the harder rope of the thrown type. A fumble in either type entangles the user or the mount in the rope with falling damage (if running at the time) and takes ID4 rounds to untangle.

After successfully catching the target, there is another factor to consider. If the body is caught, the resistance chart is used, matching STR vs. STR as in grappling. If the head is caught, it is the same, but the STR of the one using the lasso is doubled. If a leg is caught, the target must roll DEX as a percentage to keep from falling; the lasso user's STR is doubled in using the Resistance Chart.

 

Quote

 

Bolas Bolas str9 dex13 damage1D4 hp5 cost15 enc2 range15m l/MR rate05% training 0-25=300 30-50=800 55-75=1500 75+EXPonly.

Bolas are listed in Foes under Bolo Lizard Clan, but the implement does not appear anywhere else in RQ literature. The bolas is still used by Argentine gauchos, but its use goes back to neolithic times as a hunting weapon. The gaucho uses them against the legs of livestock, and neolithic hunters used them against large waterfowl (the whooping crane may have started down its road to near extinction in the late ice age due to hunters using this weapon).

The bolas consists of two or three weights, usually encased in leather pouches for padding, attached to a cord joining them together. The bolas is held in the middle of these cords, swung around the head, and thrown with a snap of the wrist so that the weights fly outwards, revolving. The intent is to wrap the cords tightly around the target, immobilizing, but not necessarily doing damage. Because the ideal way to use a bolas is to immobilize the target, not just damage with the weights, damage is only done by the weapon if the bolas-user rolls equal to or higher than half his normal percent chance to hit. If he does damage this way, he has no chance of entangling his target. If he rolls a special roll. he both entangles the target and does damage. For example, a character with a 50% ability in boia$ throwing will entangle his target on a roll of 25 or less on DI00, and will merely cause damage on a roll of 26-50.

 

 

 

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On 12/27/2019 at 5:52 AM, David Scott said:

alternative music version 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NG8lzTQGHw

 

Mongolian pop, wow! I have been listening to Thuvan throat singing for years so that was interesting. Probably too ‘"sweet” for most and wow does to it ever follow the chinese pop love of reverb... but interesting.

... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast!

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