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Scientist Experience Package


4Acrossisemu

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There has be some discontent with creating scientists with the starting rates of 01% in science within my groups. So to combat this a bit i've come up with a Scientist Experience Package to appease them as a house rule, and i wondered what others thought about it. Or if anyone has thoughts on playing scientists in general. 

  • Must start over 50 years old
  • Must start as a non-believer, and must pass a INT roll as well to change their staunch view or remain a non-believer even in the face of the truth
  • Gains 70 bonus skill points in the any of follow skills: Science (any two), Library Use
  • Note: Cannot spend skill points on occult from the start.

 

 

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I like it.  Fits the genre stereotype well.  Only thing lacking is an assistant/henchman.  These come in three flavors:  nubile (often a daughter), sinister (pencil-thin mustache, big and brawny or a wiry hunchback), or robotic.  The scientist doesn't have to be a bad guy for his NPC associates to go wrong.

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2 minutes ago, seneschal said:

I like it.  Fits the genre stereotype well.  Only thing lacking is an assistant/henchman.  These come in three flavors:  nubile (often a daughter), sinister (pencil-thin mustache, big and brawny or a wiry hunchback), or robotic.  The scientist doesn't have to be a bad guy for his NPC associates to go wrong.

I think you forgot the unquenchable hatred for certain blue hedgehogs.😏

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1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

I think you forgot the unquenchable hatred for certain blue hedgehogs.😏

Heh, the inestimable Dr. Robotnik is sort of an amalgam of sub-types.  ;)

Nubile -- Usually an ingenue, although she has the scientific chops to help the player-character with his experiments.  Occasionally, however, she is an unfaithful wife scheming with the pencil-thin mustache to steal the adventurer's money or discoveries.

Robotic -- Think the Mysterious Doctor Satan's prototype soldier or Doctor Zorka's 8-foot toothy automaton.  Our hero scientist wouldn't have built his android for nefarious ends but such metal servants have a way of either falling into the wrong hands or developing malevolent minds of their own.

Hunchback -- Fritz (Frankenstein) or Daniel (House of Frankenstein) are the prototypical hunchbacked servants, skilled at manual tasks and mechanical assembly as long as they aren't too complicated and reasonably loyal since they'd have trouble finding employment elsewhere.  They tend, however, to develop moral defects such as falling for the hero scientist's lovely fiance or feeling somehow slighted by the boss or having criminal friends from their past show up and demand favors.

Pencil-Thin Mustache -- An associate or supposedly friendly rival of Our Hero, handsome and cultured but somehow not quite as skilled as the PC, and he resents it.  He has his own ideas of how the research should proceed or how the adventurer's discoveries should be used.  And he's unprincipled enough to sneak around behind the scientist's back to have his own way.  He'll also make a play for the hero's love interest with much more confidence than the bashful hunchback.

Brawny -- He's big and athletic, maybe youthful, maybe a stern war veteran.  He's the unsympathetic orderly at the asylum, the college athlete who took the job at the lab only for quick cash or a shot at the professor's daughter, the grim-faced employment agency recommendation who has the skills but maybe a criminal or foreign spy background as well (and he's not telling).  Like the hunchback, maybe he has bad friends, or maybe he angled for the position specifically to steal the scientist's work.

Edited by seneschal
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Tempted to still play BRP instead of Revolution D100...

But I would lack the stunt and general skill... So I came up with this simple idea!
Add for each skill category (combat, communication, manipulation, mental, perception, physical) a general expertise skill, e.g. "combat expertise" that is only use to unlock stunt (say one every 10%? but rate could vary) (stunt being improvement over basic skill, things like found in blood tide supplement or twist on existing spell or blue print on engineering skills)

One particular stunt common to all skill category would be "general experience" giving you, say, expertise skill%/3 in all skill as a base, up to 20%. This stunt could be taken multiple times.... for Min(expertise/3%, 40%) and finally Min (expertise/2%, 50%)

 

I would also add toughness.. but it's another story..

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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One problem with Revolution D100 is stunt are a good concept but they are not nearly as developed as needed...
But after a few sessions I am starting to get some ideas... :)

In the case of art and craft.....
It appears to me that... Smithing should not let you do all metal works, nor Physics should let you do a spaceships.... It should give you solid theoritical knowledge, enough to understand and modify something...
But additional stunt should be needed for each piece of sophisticated gear. In the real of advanced physic one can imagine many stunt for each piece of advance tech like "propulsor blueprint", "hyperspace engine blueprint", "forcefield blue print" without knowing those one can slowly attempt to make a a small space ship with lots of trial and errors and oversight, but it's gonna be so so.. whereas, by knowing the blue print one can directly order online whatever it needs and straight away build it faster and optimised

Revolution D100 has a nice conflict rule for that with different difficulty whether you have the advanced stunt (i.e. specialisation) or not. WIth BRP I would just say without the stunt the work is more amateurish (prone to unexpected problem later), wasteful and slow...

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Really interesting...I like it. My only issue is that in reality I don't think science and the occult are mutually exclusive knowledge areas...for example, in high school I was into science AND stuff out on the edge, ESP, Fortean phenomena, the supernatural, it was all part of the 'unknown' and I was fascinated by all of it. But I majored in physics in college and the deeper I got into science and how it is done, the more skeptical I became. But I knew about the fringey stuff, I just no longer believed much or any of it. And that stuff was a part of a lot of the entertainment I liked (and still is), tv shows, movies, books, rpg's, etc.

I don't think I was that unusual, I think people who are interested in what we know and don't know may often not distinguish between established science and the 'disreputable' stuff. 

So given that, I wouldn't bar skill points to the occult, but some skepticism makes sense, the more science-knowledgeable the character is. Maybe. I want to think more about it.

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I agree with Brown, science and occult and not incompatible! Did you know that Newton was an avid Alchemist?

At any rate, it seems like it because, in the real world, occultism is ... superstition, at best. Hence the better the scientist, the less likely he/she will be interested... But in the game world... Occultism is real! So... Scientist should be interested!

Also.. why you have to be over 50 yo? I dunno in th old days.. but today you study a PhD which you usually finish around 26... at 35 you already got a lot of experience under your belt!

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It's a genre thing on both counts.  Look at the pop culture from the 1930s through the 1960s.  With very rare exceptions (whiz kids like Tom Swift) the scientist is almost always an older gentleman with enough life experience to have arch enemies and grandchildren as well as a Nobel prize or three.  Our modern concept of the youthful genius didn't develop until Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did it for real in the 1970s and '80s.

Same deal with the occult.  Scientists were riding the coattails of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment.  Religion and superstition were going to, ahem, magically disappear as science guided by rationalism and materialism explained everything worth knowing.  A pop culture scientist had to deny any phenomenon that smacked of the mystical to maintain his worldview even as the witch doctor's curse took hold or the werewolf gnawed on his shoe.  It wasn't until the 1980s and '90s that advanced physics started sounding awfully theological.

Again, we're dealing with a stereotype here, but the typical brainy guy you'd see or hear or read about in media was too old to box with the Big Bad and skeptical enough to make Mystery, Inc.'s Fred Jones look like a believer.  That's what the character template reflects.

(Alchemy, by the way, was the father of and evolved into modern chemistry.)

 

Edited by seneschal
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16 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

At any rate, it seems like it because, in the real world, occultism is ... superstition, at best. Hence the better the scientist, the less likely he/she will be interested... But in the game world... Occultism is real! So... Scientist should be interested!

To expand on what senechal said which is spot on. 

the mythos is also real, the point is the sceptical scientist would make the argument for it being a rational phenomenon where science can explain it even if the answer is not apparent, the limits are only from the starting of the PC, there is meant to be a breaking of the archetype as its non believer status is removed offering good RPing candy and an personal arc as everything they hold dear is torn away. This is much like vehemently defending their theories even in the face of mounting evidence it was wrong. The extra Intel roll to deny the reality of the mytho is there for this reason. 

Edited by 4Acrossisemu
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35 minutes ago, seneschal said:

Favorite line from "Scooby Doo On Zombie Island" (as the Mystery, Inc., gang are surrounded by the shambling undead):

"You're not a skeptic, Freddie.  You're in denial!"'

 

Or how Scully in the X-Files is always sceptical of the supernatural, no mater how many monsters she kills.

3 hours ago, 4Acrossisemu said:

To expand on what senechal said which is spot on. 

the mythos is also real, the point is the sceptical scientist would make the argument for it being a rational phenomenon where science can explain it even if the answer is not apparent, the limits are only from the starting of the PC, there is meant to be a breaking of the archetype as its non believer status is removed offering good RPing candy and an personal arc as everything they hold dear is torn away. This is much like vehemently defending their theories even in the face of mounting evidence it was wrong. The extra Intel roll to deny the reality of the mytho is there for this reason. 

Wouldn't the scientist's belief that there is a rational explanation somewhere out there in the universe for these monsters give them a kind of shield against insanity? Even if they never personally find it themselves? No matter how horrible the monsters get, the scientist can always fall back upon the refrain that "Magic is just science we don't understand yet."

Edited by Old Man Henerson
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As a scientist myself, the one thing that bothers me about the Science rules is that they pretend like the sciences are not interconnected. For example, the suggestion that an engineer knows nothing about Physics if you don't  put points in it, or that a Bioligist would know nothing about Chemistry or Geology is just ludicrous. So, what I do is that if you put points in a primary, you get half those points in a secondary automatically. For example, someone who puts 60 points into engineering is going to get an automatic 30 points to put into physics.

I also think that there is this odd assumption out there that scientists would mentally crumble (more than others) with the realization that evidence goes beyond what we see. I don't buy that at all, and to me it is reflective more of prejudice towards scientific thought rather than actual science psychology. I do have a scientist player right now and they are doing a great job of RPing an arc for "scientist versus Mythos."

Why would a person with this package need to be at least 50??? I know 25 year old scientists who are brilliant, with an incredible command of their field, and 60 year old scientists that struggle. Age really has nothing to do with it.

I also know plenty of scientists that engage in belief structures and it has no negative impact on their craft. One of the line writers of this game is a scientist and I'm pretty sure she knows quite a bit about the Occult.

Is this a Science Stereotype Experience Package? ;)

I think the requirements are pretty simple: At least 80 points placed into one or more sciences, with at least 60 in one. Or something like that. And maybe specify a PhD in something. I know you want to have the Package explore a "struggle with the meaning of reason," but I view that as more personal than professional.

Edited by klecser
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"Is this a Scientist Stereotype Experience Package?"

 

[Robin Williams as the Genie voice]. "Yes!  He can be taught!"

RPG character packages have nothing to do with your petty real-world experiences of ... anything, really.   Otherwise we'd end up playing Walmart the RPG.  They're about rewarding a player for modeling a fiction convention faithfully to recreate a mood or type of story.  It's why all RPG elf maidens are beautiful, all dwarves are brawny jewel smiths, all cowboys can play the guitar and croon soulfully as well as shoot with deadly accuracy, all biker gangsters wear black leather jackets and comb their hair in ducktails, all gangsters have Italian accents and pinstripe suits (don't forget the Boss's lapel carnation!), all deformed henchmen drool as the Big Bad goes on and on about his Master Plan, why when the bright one pops ups up and says, "Oh, I get it, Boss" the Big Bad responds, "If I really thought you were capable of understanding it I'd kill you!"

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23 hours ago, klecser said:

As a scientist myself, the one thing that bothers me about the Science rules is that they pretend like the sciences are not interconnected. For example, the suggestion that an engineer knows nothing about Physics if you don't  put points in it, or that a Bioligist would know nothing about Chemistry or Geology is just ludicrous. So, what I do is that if you put points in a primary, you get half those points in a secondary automatically. For example, someone who puts 60 points into engineering is going to get an automatic 30 points to put into physics.

This is covered with Specialisations: Transferable Skill Benefit - pg78. If you wish to use it, go for it. 

23 hours ago, klecser said:

I also think that there is this odd assumption out there that scientists would mentally crumble (more than others) with the realization that evidence goes beyond what we see. I don't buy that at all, and to me it is reflective more of prejudice towards scientific thought rather than actual science psychology. I do have a scientist player right now and they are doing a great job of RPing an arc for "scientist versus Mythos."

Scientists are famous for not letting go of their theories in the face of evidence to the contrary. Their whole careers can hinge on them being right or wrong. Famously Einstein quote "god does not play dice with the universe" was about this. He was unable to accept new evidence and change his belief in mathematical laws of nature which challenged by quantum physics. You can also look at the harsh exchange of letters from many scientist from the time to see that it was a real fight for recognition and see the struggle to over throw readily held positions of belief. Look at climate change now, both side are admit and are angry to the point of mentally crumbling.

23 hours ago, klecser said:

Why would a person with this package need to be at least 50??? I know 25 year old scientists who are brilliant, with an incredible command of their field, and 60 year old scientists that struggle. Age really has nothing to do with it.

Experience, invested time in a field means putting in the years, so it really does. Where you will have the odd stand out genius, and yes i know young scientist too. But are they leading the fields in a science? no. They are presenting papers to 50+ old heads of departments or just cleaning out test tubes. 75% in a skill is an expert level, and i'd like to think to get there, the investment isn't just high school and a winning smile. I wanted to give it meaning as with the package it will mean probably breaching that number. 10000 hours and all that, this also plays into the inability to accept new ideas.

Edited by 4Acrossisemu
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1 hour ago, klecser said:

Ok, you and I aren't going to agree on this one. I think your perceptions are influenced by widely-held stereotypes. Shame.

 

Are you a scientist?

I did Civil Eng but moved into modelmaking and 3d design, i do have several friends are in the industry (medical labs, grant work from Edinburgh/Bristol). but even then it doesn't matter. So yes you could discredit my argument, stating i'm not a scientist, if you wish. 

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45 minutes ago, klecser said:

To be fair, that's exactly what you did to me. My time spent in a relevant field doesn't seem to matter to you.

The package is a board strokes experience. One that creates a non believer scientist that is set in their ways. Its not a real world personal tailored pack. If you wish, you can create the young genius scientist, and you have to remember this is set in 1920... its not today's enlightened and rapid education system. I could easily do the same to existing experience packages, saying the Military Experience Pack that is included in the core book does accurately reflect my grandfathers experiences, in fact he couldn't stand blood, and bodies. Where the rules would give that PC immunity to see such things. So what i'd do as a keeper is modify it if a player came to me with this issue. The rules are a base line not the ultimate authority, modify it to suit, this was what this was for. A player came to me with her experiences, and this was born. I thought i'd share it for a bit of fun... 

Saying that, how about i lower it to 40? would that appease you some? 

Edited by 4Acrossisemu
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35 minutes ago, 4Acrossisemu said:

Saying that, how about i lower it to 40? would that appease you some? 

You don't need to appease me. Keepers can do whatever they like. Your package links personal belief system directly with a professional perspective. I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. But, I also read emotional contempt for science in your comments.

The most important part of our exchange here is that Keepers consider options.

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1 hour ago, klecser said:

You don't need to appease me. Keepers can do whatever they like. Your package links personal belief system directly with a professional perspective. I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive. But, I also read emotional contempt for science in your comments.

The most important part of our exchange here is that Keepers consider options.

It's not about contempt, emotional or otherwise, for anything.  It's about appreciation for a literary and cinematic genre convention.  Homework assignment:  watch 13 Universal horror movies, 5 Republic movie serials, read 10 Doc Savage, The Spider or other heroic pulp novels, 4 old sci fi novels from the 1920s and '30s.  The depictions are based on illustrious scientists and inventors such as Einstein, Carver, Franklin, Edison, Bell -- none of whom were spring chickens when they received public acclaim for their achievements.

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