100+ in a combat skill

[g33k]

I would not allow bow-parry under Arrow-Trance.  That seems to be explictly the Quarterstaff skill .

I would allow Legolas-style absurd point-blank shots.  You can do absurd acts of archery under Arrow Trance.

[Joerg]

27 minutes ago, g33k said:

I would not allow bow-parry under Arrow-Trance.  That seems to be explictly the Quarterstaff skill .

I would allow Legolas-style absurd point-blank shots.  You can do absurd acts of archery under Arrow Trance.

Point blank shots with a bow are not so much absurd as they are bloody hard. The arrow undulates in wild ways when leaving the rest, and you need lots of weird experience to compensate for that. Not impossible, but hard.

 

[SDLeary]

23 minutes ago, g33k said:

I would not allow bow-parry under Arrow-Trance.  That seems to be explictly the Quarterstaff skill .

I would allow Legolas-style absurd point-blank shots.  You can do absurd acts of archery under Arrow Trance.

Yes, but as the quoted rule from p.211 states, it can be done at Quarterstaff base skill. So if it can be done with a bow, and in Arrow Trance you are focused on using bow and arrow, I can see it. 

And just for reference, bow parrying has been shown (despite its absurdity) before Legolas. I seem to remember more than one instance in Robin of Sherwood for example. 

SDLeary

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Point blank shots with a bow are not so much absurd as they are bloody hard. The arrow undulates in wild ways when leaving the rest, and you need lots of weird experience to compensate for that. Not impossible, but hard.

When I said "absurd" there, I meant "absurdly difficult and improbable feat of archery" which falls within the Arrow Trance wheelhouse. 

I'd have to think a bit... I might call for a penalty to the Trance'd skill... -50% or something?  Not sure...

[g33k]

1 hour ago, SDLeary said:

Yes, but as the quoted rule from p.211 states, it can be done at Quarterstaff base skill. So if it can be done with a bow, and in Arrow Trance you are focused on using bow and arrow, I can see it. 

There's a LOT of things you can do with a bow.  You can stick it under a boulder to act as a lever to pry it up.  You can stick it into the water to fish out a drowning kitten (without getting your delicate tootsies wet).  You can festoon it with garlands and use it as a prop in a Fertility ritual.  Etc etc etc.

STR roll, DEX roll, Worship(Ernalda) roll, respectively.  None are Archery rolls.  Neither is a Qstaff roll an Archery roll.

You don't have a magical bow: you are a magical Archer.

Not only does Arrow Trance not Skill-boost you doing those non-Archery skills... your badass Trance'd self cannot do non-Archery skills / rolls.

YGWV, of course.

Edited December 31, 2019 by g33k

[Bill the barbarian]

50 minutes ago, g33k said:

There's a LOT of things you can do with a bow.  You can stick it under a boulder to act as a lever to pry it up.  You can stick it into the water to fish out a drowning kitten (without getting your delicate tootsies wet).  You can festoon it with garlands and use it as a prop in a Fertility ritual.  Etc etc etc.

Ah but can you tie it a knot, can you tie it a bow, can you throw over your shoulder like a continental soldier Does your bow make you glow?
Enquiring minds want to know!

[g33k]

2 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Ah but can you tie it a knot

The bowstring, certainly.

3 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

 can you tie it a bow

It already is.

Duh!

4 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

 can you throw over your shoulder like a continental soldier

Sure.

I mean, most just carry theirs in one hand.  But if you wanna do some wonky "Slope Arms" shoulder-carry position, and don't mind looking silly & affected... yeah.

11 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Does your bow make you glow?

No.

But under the RAW, if it's a magic bow & someone casts "Detect Magic" then the bow will glow.  If someone has a "Detect Bow" spell, your bow wouldn't HAVE to be magical... All bows in range will glow.

15 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Enquiring minds want to know!

We aim to please.

And we cast Arrow Trance to help us hit the mark.

[PhilHibbs]

Taking this off the Q&A thread, I think everything that needs to be said there has been. Each side has made their case, over to Jason.

6 hours ago, g33k said:

Actually, it does make sense, if we add a bit of common-sense GM'ing instead of asking the RAW to be explicit in every edge-case.  Remember the SoI -- you may not have MADE your 1st attack, but you've SoI'ed the split attack.

It isn't an edge case, it's the core mechanics of how >100% skills work.

6 hours ago, g33k said:

"Weapon" is the skill now, instead of separate attack and party.  Split the %attack, you split the %parry.

So having a separate skill is a huge advantage. Two swords works, since your main hand attack and offhand parry are separate skills, you can boost them both with Sword Trance, split your attacks, and keep your offhand parry at full boosted chance. Unless you rule that Sword Trance only boosts one Sword skill, which is a reasonable interpretation.

[g33k]

19 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Taking this off the Q&A thread, I think everything that needs to be said there has been. Each side has made their case, over to Jason.

It isn't an edge case, it's the core mechanics of how >100% skills work.

So having a separate skill is a huge advantage. Two swords works, since your main hand attack and offhand parry are separate skills, you can boost them both with Sword Trance, split your attacks, and keep your offhand parry at full boosted chance. Unless you rule that Sword Trance only boosts one Sword skill, which is a reasonable interpretation.

I think I'd require the Sword skill and the Sword(offhand) skill to be separate castings of Sword Trance, with separate skill-boosts (and extra MP's per casting).

But I'd allow it for as many swords as you can wield, so if someone with a melee Trance-granting deity somehow got the ability to Heroform with multiple arms (looking to YT + Sedenya, most likely) or vice versa, they could get pretty freaky, pretty quickly.

[JustAnotherVingan]

22 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Taking this off the Q&A thread, I think everything that needs to be said there has been. Each side has made their case, over to Jason.

It isn't an edge case, it's the core mechanics of how >100% skills work.

So having a separate skill is a huge advantage. Two swords works, since your main hand attack and offhand parry are separate skills, you can boost them both with Sword Trance, split your attacks, and keep your offhand parry at full boosted chance. Unless you rule that Sword Trance only boosts one Sword skill, which is a reasonable interpretation.

Since Sword Trance affects the character rather than the weapon I'd rule that you'd keep offhand parry at full boosted chance.

Something I'd been wondering this evening. How good are those in a Sword or Axe Trance at accepting surrenders? Granted it isn't Berserk but the Humakti or Gorite is totally focused on their weapon and combat. If an opponent drops their weapon and falls to the ground wailing I yield, I yield I think the Humakti would decide they are no longer a threat and ignore them but what if they back off in a defensive stance and say I yield?

[PhilHibbs]

It doesn't force you to attack someone that you don't want to. Like you say, not berserk.

Oh, and Happy New Year!

[JustAnotherVingan]

13 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

It doesn't force you to attack someone that you don't want to. Like you say, not berserk.

Oh, and Happy New Year!

Happy New Year

I'm not convinced. It is mind-affecting magic, it affects ability to perceive threats (if you can't cast heal on yourself). Atm I'm thinking of anyone under a trance as a ruthless killing machine, if you're a threat you're a target.

Berserk you're almost mindless. A friend who gets in the way  might get attacked, I can't see someone under a trance doing that. 

[Pentallion]

On 12/28/2019 at 12:52 AM, Joerg said:

Cwim has a force multiplier - every wound it takes creates gorp. Your three Humakti will get dissolved before Cwim loses significant amounts of general HP.

You need to take out the chest or abdomen of two bodies (or alternatively both legs of a single body) of Cwim to get it grounded, and then the bugger regenerates. Those bodies are huge. They may shrink a bit as they spew gorp from their wounds, but that doesn't matter much.

Then there is knockback. So your Humakti parried the first 16 points of the hit and absorb 8-12 points of what comes through with armor and shield. The hit still will fling her out of immediate action, and the sword will look worse for the abuse it suffered.

What hit?  5% chance to hit.  Humakt use greatswords.  Cwim cant hit them.

Gorp are slow.

Str spell, truesword and bladesharp mean Harrys legs are gone.  One of Dicks too.  Rd. 1.  Cwim falls down.  Especially with geases that increase dmg.

[Akhôrahil]

2 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

Str spell, truesword and bladesharp mean Harrys legs are gone.  One of Dicks too. 

Ouch!! Chopping Cwim's legs off is one thing, but that's just mean!

Edited January 1, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Joerg]

28 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Ouch!! Chopping Cwim's legs off is one thing, but that's just mean!

If you have the Gods War "miniature" of Cwim, I am convinced that Dick is the female body...

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:06 PM, lordabdul said:

Interesting find, thanks! I'm not sure how that can work in practice though... say I have 150% in weapon skill, and I'm splitting that 80% (against opponent A) and 70% (against opponent B). Do we need to track this so that I have 80% parry against A and 70% parry against B? (dropping either one by -20% for when they come second) And if a 3rd opponent C attacks, which skill score should I use? I've got no idea what Jason means, there.

Rereading Jason’s reply, I don’t think it’s as complicated as that. We’re not “splitting parries” as characters can already parry multiple attacks from different sources in RQG. We’re just applying a starting penalty to the parry % because the character has stretched themselves in splitting their attacks. 

The only question remaining is which starting parry % value should you apply if attacks are split unequally? Do you go with the higher or lower % value? Unless I can think of a good reason not to,  I’d always go with the higher of the % chances. 

I’ve added this as a question In the core rules thread to see what Jason says.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Bill the barbarian]

On 12/31/2019 at 11:14 AM, g33k said:

I would allow Legolas-style absurd point-blank shots.  You can do absurd acts of archery under Arrow Trance.

...and how do you feel about three arrows loosed at once while riding a silver serving tray down a set of stairs... point blank!\

On 12/31/2019 at 2:11 PM, g33k said:

We aim to please.

 

So you say but where ar all those hearts then. That might have been my best lyrics yet! (I wonder why they always make me write the music and not the lyrics)

 

On 12/31/2019 at 5:19 PM, PhilHibbs said:

Oh, and Happy New Year!

Oh damn, did I miss it again!

 

On 12/31/2019 at 5:39 PM, JustAnotherVingan said:

I'm not convinced. It is mind-affecting magic,

I’mm thinking that the trance  just might be an indication of an affected mind YGMV

 

On 12/31/2019 at 5:54 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Ouch!! Chopping Cwim's legs off is one thing, but that's just mean!

Ooooo...

6 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Rereading Jason’s reply, I don’t think it’s as complicated as that. We’re not “splitting parries” as characters can already parry multiple attacks from different sources in RQG. We’re just applying a starting penalty to the parry % because the character has stretched themselves in splitting their attacks. 

 

That seems right.

But if you are sending in a rune question on this I say it is indeed a bit confusing. I have seen the work you put in on the question of combat last year, very impressive.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

On 12/26/2019 at 5:34 PM, galafrone said:

so i didnt understood Joerg's answer correctly. 

If the 85% surplus applies only to 1 opponent (the example dont give us the chance to split on more than 1 opponent toh), that 85 can  be used ONLY to the parry of the defender (as implied in the rules) or on the parry of the incoming attack from the same opponent or on both ? (by rules isnt really clear at all)

Both, as attack and parry use the same skill in RQG. But remember the Humakti is only able to make one attack, though he can make multiple parries at a cumulative minus 20%.

So this is what will happen to the Humakti with his magic enhanced 185% weapon skill:

Attack - So if you are not splitting attacks ( which can only be done if the unmodified weapon skill before magic enhancements is 100% or over), your Humakti will have one attack of 100% against one opponent, but that broo opponents ability to parry the attack will be reduced by whatever % was over 100. In this case reduced by 85%.

Parry - The same for the Humakti's parry of 185%, which will become 100%, but the excess that was above 100% is used to reduce the Broos attack % chance. The first broo attack will be minus 85%. If the Humakti is parrying more then one attack ( from single or multiple opponents), each subsequent parry will be reduced by a cumulative minus 20%. So the above 100% weapon skill does apply as a reduction to all the opponents he is parrying, but crucially with the minus 20% cumulative penalty for each additional parry made after the first.

[galafrone]

How for the percentages of critical and Special ? are they calculated on the base (185) skill both in the lone attack and in the first parry then reduced accordingly after the first parry or… not ?

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

11 minutes ago, galafrone said:

How for the percentages of critical and Special ? are they calculated on the base (185) skill both in the lone attack and in the first parry then reduced accordingly after the first parry or… not ?

Raw they’re calculated from the modified chance to hit. So because the 185% is opposed, following the over 100% rule combat rule, the 185% becomes 100%, so  the special/crit chance will be based on 100% ability. Following RAW you would be modifying the special/crit chance for parries as they are reduced by the cumulative  penalty ( but I’d probably forget to do that 😀 ). 
 

If the humakt’s attack of 185% wasn’t opposed by a parry, then the special/crit would be based on the higher 185% chance 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[galafrone]

so technically, let's say i DONT want to use the plus to reduce the opponent % (for any reason) can i keep the 185 and calculate crit and special on it ?

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

One last point if the example humakti had his natural weapon skill (before magic enhancements) over 100%, he could use the “split attack” rule to make more then one attack. But the magical enhancements would be added afterwards. So sword trance bonus of 100% would be divided equally between those multiple attacks. They wouldn’t each  receive the full sword trance bonus.

But to clarify/reiterate, parrying multiple attacks would receive the full sword trance bonus but with the cumulative minus 20% for additional parries after the first.*

* still some uncertainty on which of the split attack weapon skill values you use to base the parry on (if they are divided unequally) though. Hopefully @Jason Durall will see this and the new corresponding question on the core rules thread. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

7 minutes ago, galafrone said:

so technically, let's say i DONT want to use the plus to reduce the opponent % (for any reason) can i keep the 185 and calculate crit and special on it ?

 

RAW no - As long as the opponent wishes to oppose the attack you will have to follow the above 100% rule and reduce your chances to 100%, with the resulting crit/special chance. But crucially they also have their chance reduced by whatever % you had over 100%.
 

If they don’t know, don’t wish to, or are unable to oppose the attack then you can have the special/crit chance at 185%

Edited January 4, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Bill the barbarian]

2 hours ago, galafrone said:

so technically, let's say i DONT want to use the plus to reduce the opponent % (for any reason) can i keep the 185 and calculate crit and special on it ?

 

Just gave the relevant rules areas a read and, well let’s start with the bad news The rules as written say the skills are brought below 100%, period. After that it get a bit confusing

Quote

While the actual chance of hitting remains no better than 95% (due to rolls of 96–00 failing), the chance of a special or critical success continues to increase or decrease, based on the final modified chance of success. As with other skills or abilities, the final modified value is always the one used to determine the chance of special or critical successes, as well as fumbles. Thus, a Wind Lord with a 150% sword skill has a 30% of a special success, and an 8% chance of a critical hit

This is the third bulleted point on "Combat with Skills Above 100%" from RQ RiG page 202.  The wording says specials and crits go up and down based on mods, so we have to decide if decreasing both skills equally to drop then to 100% or below is just such a modification. The example (not the entire rule) given clearly says no, we know that the 150 must become 100 and thus make the 30% default to the mandatory min of 5%. but note that the special and critical remain as if for 150% (30% and 8%.).

So rules as written not dropping your opponents parry would be holding back your blow. If I was a GM and you came to me and after all this explanation you told me you wanted to make it harder to hit (holding back ones full skill, or really allowing your opponent their full skill even though o do not have to) I would allow it... but again you are tying a hand behind your back in this fight. I can see no advantage to it unless out of homer you are giving your foe a chance.

Now I hope Paid a bod yn dwp does not mind the interruption but really, of all the people i have seen take this question he is the only one who can make it sensible to me. What say you sir? @Paid a bod yn dwp I would check out the Q and A section at the Well of Dahlia but the last time I was there (this morning) it gave the dreaded 404 error. Thanks for you time Paid a bod yn dwp! 

ETA Just saw that Paid a bod yn dwp rules the opposite way on the previous page, so what do you say sir, with the above ruling disagreeing with the example given and yourself as well, have you a thought on this. Well of to the well to see if the link has been fixed and to see what it says.

Cheers

Edited January 4, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[PhilHibbs]

8 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

The example (not the entire rule) given clearly says no, we know that the 150 must become 100 and thus make the 30% default to the mandatory min of 5%. but note that the special and critical remain as if for 150% (30% and 8%.).

That's not right.

Quote

• While the actual chance of hitting remains no
  better than 95% (due to rolls of 96–00 failing),
  the chance of a special or critical success continues
  to increase or decrease, based on the final
  modified chance of success. As with other skills or
  abilities, the final modified value is always the one
  used to determine the chance of special or critical
  successes, as well as fumbles. Thus, a Wind Lord
  with a 150% sword skill has a 30% of a special
  success, and an 8% chance of a critical hit.

The "Thus..." is a bit misleading, IMO.

Personally I might houseruling that special and crit use the unmodified chance on a split attack.

Edited January 4, 2020 by PhilHibbs