Making an "Adventuring" Sorcerer

[Richard S.]

Inspired by the recent thread on sorcery, I decided to try and come up with a way to make a sorcerer who could be useful in an adventuring party. I'm not sure how well this build would actually work in practice, but these are just my preliminary thoughts.

First, you want Fire/Sky and Moon as your primary and secondary runes. INT needs to be at least 16, use whatever methods necessary to increase it. Take the Philosopher occupation and become an Aeolian sorcerer (a little bit of Houseruling here - I give them the same bonuses as an initiate of one of the lightbringers but with 3 sorcery spells instead of Spirit magic). Rokari would give more runes and techniques, but the caste restrictions would be painful for party effectiveness from what I've seen.

You get 2 techniques and 3 runes total, so master Fire, Magic, Death, Command, and Summon. You also get 6 spells - take Boon of Kargan Tor, Enhance INT, Protective Circle, Neutralize Magic, Magic Point Enchantment, and Ward Against Weapons. Skill level isn't too important for these, you're expected to use mediation and ceremony. You'll need a decent mediate skill.

Yourjob is support, prepping the party by preemptively casting long duration spells. You'll need to make a lot of magic point enchantments. It's helpful if you're paired with a shaman or a pseudo-shaman sorcerer to get you some bound spirits. A Truth sorcerer can also help let you know what spells should be cast when and where, using spells like Geomancy, Identify Otherworld Entity, and Pierce the Veil.

Once you get some adventures under your belt and know pretty much what to expect, make yourself some inscriptions for your most useful spells. Make up the lost POW by getting into fights with spirits, assisted by the aforementioned shaman or pseudo-shaman.

Once again, these are just some preemptive thoughts inspired by my reading of the sorcery chapter and the recent topic on sorcery. I don't have any experience with playing a sorcerer or with sorcerer players, and input from people who have would be nice. I'll probably update this in the future as my understanding grows.

[Shiningbrow]

Just an important reminder - you get 2 Techniques and 3 Runes and 6 spells (?) given to you at that section of chargen. (Do you also have RPs?)

You can then spend more POW for more Runes and/or Techniques, and you can use your 25/10 skills on other spells...

Obviously, we don't have a real "sorcerer" occupation yet, so that'll change things a bit what it comes out.

 

However, in relation to our adventuring sorcerer, I personally wouldn't start with philosopher. Sure, extra Rune and Technique are nice to have for free... But cult initiation might be better. And ability to effectively handle a sword - especially at start - would be very useful for when you run out of MPs.

Philosopher only gives +10% to 3 spells... Oh, whoop-dee-do! Ignore that, take a different occupation, go LM, and use the cult skills for sorcery, and occupation skills to keep you alive. Use 10/25 skills on getting new spells.

[HreshtIronBorne]

I have been having a blast adventuring with a LM Sage-With-a-Big-Stick PC. I took Boon of Kargan Tor in Character Creation and it has made a BONKERS amount of difference in the effectiveness of the whole party in terms of damage. Remember, it can be applied to basically anything, with enough MP and downtime basically everything the party cares to ensorcell is covered, so is everything the local War Leader wants ensorcelled...

In total he has Death, Truth, Fire/Sky, Summon and Command. We have been playing these PCs for several years game time now, 7 or 8 I think. so, his spell percentages on the ones he casts are pretty stellar.

Boon of Kargan Tor: 94%

Enhance Intelligence: 71%

Solace of the Logical Mind: 84%

Logician: 54%

Identify Otherworld  Entity: 30%

Geomancy: 23%

He has an inscription for Boon of Kargan Tor and Enahcne Intelligence. Boon of Kargan Tor has +3 Duration, so he can manage to crank it up to 3d6 for a year, or 2d6 for 8 years. 5d6 for like, 80 minutes in a pinch.

We have given him almost every Spirit Magic Matrix we have found as loot, which has been quite a few. Many belt buckles of Heal 2 and Disruption and such.

[Shiningbrow]

33 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Boon of Kargan Tor: 94%

Enhance Intelligence: 71%

Solace of the Logical Mind: 84%

Logician: 54%

Identify Otherworld  Entity: 30%

Geomancy: 23%

Why so high for BoKT? It's usually cast when you've got plenty of time to meditate/ritual practice...

Identify Otherworld Entity, though, is something I'd normally consider a "need right now" spell... (although, I do wonder about it being Temporal rather than Instant... Does that mean you get to ask lots of questions? Or lots of spirits?)

[HreshtIronBorne]

I have mostly just gotten luckier rolling it up then the others. I use logician regularly and it is still just terrible. 

 

Geomancy and Identify Otherworld Entity are both spells I have never really had an opportunity to cast. We had a PC roll up a shaman right after I put together the LM, so we had that whole thing sorta covered. Geomancy has come in handy once or twice but, never seems to go up when I roll it. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by HreshtIronBorne
Completing a thought

[Richard S.]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just an important reminder - you get 2 Techniques and 3 Runes and 6 spells (?) given to you at that section of chargen. (Do you also have RPs?)

You can then spend more POW for more Runes and/or Techniques, and you can use your 25/10 skills on other spells...

Obviously, we don't have a real "sorcerer" occupation yet, so that'll change things a bit what it comes out.

 

However, in relation to our adventuring sorcerer, I personally wouldn't start with philosopher. Sure, extra Rune and Technique are nice to have for free... But cult initiation might be better. And ability to effectively handle a sword - especially at start - would be very useful for when you run out of MPs.

Philosopher only gives +10% to 3 spells... Oh, whoop-dee-do! Ignore that, take a different occupation, go LM, and use the cult skills for sorcery, and occupation skills to keep you alive. Use 10/25 skills on getting new spells.

Yes. In the example I gave, you start with a total of 2 techniques, 3 runes, and 6 spells when combining the benefits from your occupation (philosopher, +1t, +1r, +3s) and cult (homebrewed Aeolian, +1t, +2r, +3s). I don't know why you're restating that. The way I interpret it is that Aeolian sorcerers initiate to the Orlanthi pantheon, but their versions grant sorcery to the sorcerer caste in place of spirit magic (similar to how baseline LM can be), so yes they would get Rune magic. I don't now how accurate to canon this is and it'll probably be supplanted once we learn more about Aeolianism.

You need to spend a full season and then succeed at a 1d100 >/= INT+POW roll too. I wouldn't allow a sorcerer to master more R&Ts during character creation than what they get from their occupation and religion.

Philosopher is the closest we've got, yes, but I think it'll be close enough.

You seem to be implying that being a philosopher precludes joining a cult, which is not true. Without the occupation you're down to 2 runes and 1 technique assuming you go Aeolian, or only 1 of each if you go Lankhor Mhy. And you don't need to be able to fight spectacularly - with your buffs the party should be able to pick up the slack. Most homelands grant decent weapon skills anyways, which are augmented by your necessarily large INT (and possibly POW) as a sorcerer. Just plop in a +10 and you should be able to help out somewhat, but it's not your main job unless you're travelling alone (and any sorcerer who does that is an idiot).

I don't see any benefit in passing up attempts to increase your spell skills. It's the job of the party to keep you alive - you die and they lose one of their biggest assets. Once again I wouldn't worry about not having great combat potential, if you absolutely need that then that's what you should spend some of your personal bonuses on. Going Lankhor Mhy and not taking philosopher also means you only have Truth and Command to start and can't use some of the best spells for adventurers until much later in the game. I don't understand what benefit you see in taking a martial occupation+LM is you want to play a sorcerer.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Richard S.

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Take the Philosopher occupation and become an Aeolian sorcerer (a little bit of Houseruling here - I give them the same bonuses as an initiate of one of the lightbringers but with 3 sorcery spells instead of Spirit magic).

I think the Aeolian wizards are straight sorcerors rather than mixed lightbringer/sorcery as RQG p289 says "The free and talar classes use Rune and spirit magic; the wizard cast uses sorcery".

Other possible sorcerous cults in the Dragon pass/Prax area might be (ignoring minor flotsam that washes up in Nochet):

Cult of Pavis: specialize in the Man Rune.

Black Arkat:  Although you have to be illuminated to be taught sorcery.

Irrippi Ontor:  Moon and Truth.

Buserian:  Fire and Truth (mainly astrology style spells).

Sword Sages:  Fighting sorcery (Boon of Kargan Tor and all that)

God Forgot:  Carvak Zivan looks like the fellow who is willing to teach.  Possibly Moon Rune.  Magic and Truth spell necessary for the acid trips.

Delecti:  Don't say you weren't tempted.  Hanging out with goth chicks is a addition benefit.

Servants of the Almighty Dragons:  Whatever Scholar Wyrm teaches.

[French Desperate WindChild]

the main issue I see is from a RP perspective :

why people teach you sorcery and will accept you go in adventure ? 

Aeolian --> to be a "like invisible god  priest" or to be a "super" (warrior / farmer / crafter / adventurer) with sorcery power (depending of the spell known)

Lankhor Mhy --> from a religious aspect, can you learn other spells than "research truth" spells type ?

 

 

[metcalph]

15 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

why people teach you sorcery and will accept you go in adventure ? 

Aeolian --> to be a "like invisible god  priest" or to be a "super" (warrior / farmer / crafter / adventurer) with sorcery power (depending of the spell known)

While the exact attitude of the Aeolian is unknown, being a super warrior etc isn't it.  The Aeolians are governed by Caste and an Aeolian sorceror who seeks tobe a super warrior is almost certainly breaking it.  The Aeolians find it easier to arm a friendly Wind Lord with potent sorcery spells than for themselves to be excellent warriors.

An Aeolian Wizard can adventure.  He is however acting as an agent for his community and his actions should be constantly judged in that light.  It's not like he's a Rokari who can bugger off to Dragon Pass and study the secrets of Arkat, the Aeolians are a tiny fringe community and the primary dtuty of their wizards is ensuring their survival.  So quests for magic in and around Dragon Pass might be permissible (a quest against the Queendom of Jab would be encouraged while a quest against Snakepipe Hollow would be discouraged).  

15 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Lankhor Mhy --> from a religious aspect, can you learn other spells than "research truth" spells type ?

Yes, you can.  But if you fail to be a seeker of knowledge, you can be excommunicated (cf Zindaulo in the Smoking Ruins and other Tales)

[Shiningbrow]

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Yes. In the example I gave, you start with a total of 2 techniques, 3 runes, and 6 spells when combining the benefits from your occupation (philosopher, +1t, +1r, +3s) and cult (homebrewed Aeolian, +1t, +2r, +3s). I don't know why you're restating that.

Firstly, it's homebrew, so clarifying. Secondly, you can add the % from the first 3 to the second 3 if you wanted higher scores on your most precious spells.

 

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

I wouldn't allow a sorcerer to master more R&Ts during character creation than what they get from their occupation and religion.

This has been discussed, and at least some feel that the 3 POW you get in RPs can be traded for Runes/Techniques.

 

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

You seem to be implying that being a philosopher precludes joining a cult, which is not true.

Nope, not at all.

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

And you don't need to be able to fight spectacularly - with your buffs the party should be able to pick up the slack. Most homelands grant decent weapon skills anyways, which are augmented by your necessarily large INT (and possibly POW) as a sorcerer. Just plop in a +10 and you should be able to help out somewhat, but it's not your main job unless you're travelling alone (and any sorcerer who does that is an idiot).

If you rely solely on that, then you're only looking at 10 (weapon base) + 10/15 (culture) + 10/15 (on average for skills)... And then maybe +10 (freebie). 40-50% is bad. Less "help out", more "make things worse".

You're not playing a *pure* sorcerer. You're playing an *adventuring* sorcerer. Philosophers are the current "pure" sorcerer.

 

Please note - I'm only considering this angle from starting character perspective. And having that character survive long enough to pick up the other Runes, Techniques and spells later in their career. One hit (that you can't parry) and it's new character time.

 

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

It's the job of the party to keep you alive -

No. Not unless you're paying them to do so. If *any* die, the party is losing an asset.

It's the party's job to keep the party alive. As you've described your sorceror above, they seem much more suited to staying at home and just doing up buffs as needed, rather than being out adventuring.

ETA: the adventuring sorcerer I have in mind is a Noble initiated into Lhankor Mhy (until we get more information on other cults). Has good combat skills, some ok generic (Lores and most other skills  backed up by Logician), and the bonus skills spent on buffing sorcery spells (the LM sorcery bonuses used for the "need now" spells... Everything else can be cast relaxedly). Should give about half a dozen (at least) spells, with at least 1 around 60% (25 LM + 25 freebie + magic modifier) - probably Identify Entity. A couple of others around 40%... And the rest about 25% (before meditation). Also starts with good armour! 

This will allow the character to survive out on the road long enough to build up, and not just wait behind the other characters to "do their job". 

I'm just saying that sorcerers have two *huge* drawbacks (4 if you include the need to master Runes and Techniques, and each spell is a separate skill) - long casting times for useful/effective spells, and the magic point bottleneck. The second will eventually be lessened. But that casting time is never to going to be reduced - meaning your best in-combat spell is going to take at least 2 full rounds to get off (and be useful). The only two spells you might be casting from your list for this is Protective Circle and Ward Against Weapons*. The Ward can be cast as a buff days/weeks/months in advance. The Protective Circle is almost useless - it'll finally be up around 2+ rounds after combat has started, needs another spell on top of it to be useful (which, if it's your WAW, means another couple of rounds lost), and then it's a resistance table roll. Also, it means everyone needs to stay in the circle to be safe. You *could* do a lesser version (than your full strength), and rely on the other characters to charge it with something, eg, Shield or Spirit Block...Still, that's maybe halfway through a lot of combats.

(*Spirit Warding is more likely to hurt than help, as unless you've got a couple of good MP batteries, you're using your own MPs - which is really bad for surviving Spirit Combat. Wall of Fire would be a much better spell choice!)

You're still left with that MP bottleneck in your early career. At least having a good weapon skill (or 2... or 3) and using sorcery as a backup means you're almost always a useful member of the party!

Of course, if you want a pure sorcerer - go for it!

Edited January 1, 2020 by Shiningbrow

[Joerg]

The Aeolian sect doesn't have a warrior/soldier caste, which means that all the (other three) Aeolian castes fight.

That doesn't make their sorcerer warriors or warrior sorcerers men-of-all, as they neither are supposed to command nor to craft or grow food.

Given that the sorcerer caste of the Aeolians is endogamous and makes up only about 5% of the 50,000 Esvulari that we know about (distributed over southern Heortland, northern God Forgot (Refuge) and the Choralinthor Bay coast (Nochet, Karse, presumably Rhigos and possibly Adjusted riverine cities in the Esrolian Mesopotamia) and maybe a few in Sartarite and other Heortland cities), we are speaking of a total zzaburi caste population of 2500 individuals, with perhaps slightly more than half of them able to do at least basic sorcery using a single technique and maybe one or two runes.

Statistically, the INT 14-15 range population of Aeolian zzaburi if all of them are created with standard RQG random rolling of the dice and liberal use of the Fire Rune as their primary or at least secondary personal rune (they are Aeolians, so maybe the Storm rune as primary rune should prevail) makes half the characters rolling 12 (those with Fire Rune their highest rune) and basically all characters rolling 13 or higher on 2D6+6 capable of learning at least minimal sorcery. There is a 6 in 36 chance to roll a 6 on 2d6, half of which I assume to take Fire for their primary rune as sorcerer caste members, and a cumulative 21 in 36 chance to roll higher, which makes 47 out of 72 Aeolian zzabubri, or rounding to an easier number, two out of three Aeolian zzaburi caste members at least minimally trained sorcerers (with another 15 out of 72 zzaburi caste people with an INT of 13 able to get one rune and one technique in a possible later pursuit of sorcery, rounding (down this time) another fifth of the population with rudimentary sorcery skills who dropped out of the curriculum. (Unless there is a spell "Measure INT" that is cast on potential future sorcerers. It is possible that some people's Glorantha might have such a spell, but for mine I will assume that testing people's intelligence is not an exact science, and that people mentally unable to master a second rune after having mastered the first one (Magic?) and a technique will drop out of the sorcery curriculum with a "bachelor degree" and maybe able to cast "Attract Magic" and "Magic Point Enchantment" if they learned the Command technique or "Neutralize Magic" and "Drain Soul" if they learned the Dispel technique. (Command plus Magic also allows the spell Protective Circle, but I don't think that another sorcerer can use the frame of an allied sorcerer, unless a ritual and/or a mental communication spell enables them to invest into the same spell construct.) Only 10 out of 72 or one in seven Aeolian zzaburi caste member has no hope of ever learning any sorcery.

Both the basic Command Magic and Dispel Magic practitioners are useful assistants, whether in the magical laboratory or in conflicts with other magicians.

All Aeolian castes fight, but not every caste member fights. Let's suppose that one in three people has enough combat skills to participate in fights. That results in half the full Aeolian sorcerers (one third of the population) and a third of the minimally sorcerously gifted are eligible for warriors who know a little bit of sorcery. Maybe 900 individuals. That leaves about 100 warrior sorcerers of significant prowess in both weapons and sorcery optimized for use in combat (even i it is only of the Attract Magic or Neutralize Magic variety for 10 or 20 of these).

Optimized for use in combat means making use of inscriptions to make these spells fire with as minimal delay as possible, and selecting combat effective spells mostly for those who have additional runes at their command.

And probably at least 400 Aeolian sorcerers will know either Death or Fertility, enabling them to cast Boon of Kargan Tor and Ward Against Damage, or Accelerate Healing (if possibly at double cost and casting time).

Enough to make them a commonly encountered type of Aeolian sorcerer, and a welcome addition to people who enjoy retainers to boost them magically.

[Pentallion]

For the Eleven Lights campaign, I took all the information that Mynaryth Purple gives out, broke it down into each fact that he needed to discover along the way, started with the first clue, made an adventure for the LM to go on to discover this and then made a mini-campaign out of the entire thing.  Some of it was in libraries scattered about Dragon Pass and Pavis.  So travelling was generally the primary source of adventure.  Then, of course, all of this "adventuring" ie, truth finding missions, culminated in the HeroQuest the PCs took to become the Eleven Lights.  There was also some missions to uncover how to repair the broken sky dome.  That's the optional adventure in the GM pack I incorporated into our Eleven Lights campaign. 

So a LM pure philosopher can make a very good PC for adventuring.

[Richard S.]

Another idea for an adventuring sorcerer, one who can help more directly when push comes to shove: an elementalist. Pretty much the same build as before, but swap out Death for Spirit and only take three spells (so you can pump more % into them): Bind Salamander, Dominate Salamander, and Summon Salamander. As soon as play begins, create a binding enchantment, summon a small Salamander, overcome it, and command it into the binding enchantment. Assuming combat doesn't go on for a full five minutes, you can cast Dominate Salamander at only the basic cost of 3MP and release your Salamander on the second round to fight for you, then command it back into the binding before the Dominate wears off. You can also use your Salamander for other things, such as burning down doors, protecting you from missiles, and keeping you warm in winter. If you absolutely don't want to use a Salamander, take Earth - a Gnome is probably the second best type of elemental you can have on an adventure, though they may be slightly less useful if you're in a place with more solid stone than dirt.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Richard S.