Videopete Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 This kinda drives a desire to see some Lunar source books written. To play as a Lunar in the heart of the empire. The problem, I started with the core runequest book 1st edition being on sale on drive thru and was working my way through the classics, and only the Glorantha Source Book to start breaking down the opaque nature of the setting. Before I could only see the Lunars as moon worshiping Roman's. For the longest time, I had no idea that the Lunars were also Solars too. When I read King of Sartar though, it also seemed the the Grand Flaw in his resurrection is also causing more and more chaos to seep through each mask. That is until Sheng Seleris awesome return. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qizilbashwoman Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, Videopete said: This kinda drives a desire to see some Lunar source books written. To play as a Lunar in the heart of the empire. The problem, I started with the core runequest book 1st edition being on sale on drive thru and was working my way through the classics, and only the Glorantha Source Book to start breaking down the opaque nature of the setting. Before I could only see the Lunars as moon worshiping Roman's. For the longest time, I had no idea that the Lunars were also Solars too. When I read King of Sartar though, it also seemed the the Grand Flaw in his resurrection is also causing more and more chaos to seep through each mask. That is until Sheng Seleris awesome return. Well remember the Lunar Heartland is closer to Russia in climate. It's cold where the Goddess was born! The Solars' cities were once covered by glaciers and just north of the Empire are reindeer herders (in Eol). Traditional Solar modesty - covering the whole body - is more explicable when you recall that it is traditionally pretty cold during the winters, although it's likely Yelm's blessings keeps the cities warmer than the countryside, and during the Lunar Empire, there was a mythological war fought against cold to improve the climate somewhat. A true mediterranean climate and grape cultivation are actually the remit of the Orlanthi, who live in the nice warm south. Dragon Pass is higher up so it does get some snow but they are more likely to be dressed in loose fabric than the Lunars or Solars are. And Esrolia is basically Athens in climate, I think. Hot! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 To quote the Fortunate Succession, final para under the heading The Third Return "The Rite of Rejuvenation has misled some people to believe there has been more than one emperor since then, and the foolish historians of Darjiin even insist upon numbering them. Link to footnote 1- "Their numbers do not even match the number of our own masks". Personally I have a lot of respect for the Darjiini! 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordabdul Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said: No woman can pass the test because you must be a man to qualify. I'm totally NOT up to speed on my Lunar/Solar material, but I couldn't find any obvious mention of that in GRoY -- do you have a reference? Also, isn't the Lunar upper class mostly Dara-Happans because of historical reasons? There could be a new faction gaining power and just deciding that you don't need the Ten Tests to be the Red Empress, as they start disassociating the Lunar and Solar politics? Edited January 5, 2020 by lordabdul Quote Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Using GRoY and FS I have been able to identify eight distinct Rites ( which include the Ten and, once, Eleven Tests) and six modified forms. Tradition is easily mutable, and if a dragon can be an 'impossible Emperor' I don't doubt that new Tests and Rites could be produced to sanctify a new political reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: Using GRoY and FS I have been able to identify eight distinct Rites ( which include the Ten and, once, Eleven Tests) and six modified forms. Tradition is easily mutable, and if a dragon can be an 'impossible Emperor' I don't doubt that new Tests and Rites could be produced to sanctify a new political reality. Moonson is always the Son of the Red Goddess. He is a masculine counterpoint to the feminine Goddess. This is an important part of Lunar theology. Jar-eel is powerful enough and popular enough to otherwise be a candidate, but isn't. Having a female Moonson would be extremely magically dangerous (the Emperor would be very susceptible to losing identification battles which would be disastrous). I can't imagine a situation where Great Sister or Jar-eel would tolerate that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, Jeff said: Moonson is always the Son of the Red Goddess. He is a masculine counterpoint to the feminine Goddess. This is an important part of Lunar theology. Jar-eel is powerful enough and popular enough to otherwise be a candidate, but isn't. Having a female Moonson would be extremely magically dangerous (the Emperor would be very susceptible to losing identification battles which would be disastrous). I can't imagine a situation where Great Sister or Jar-eel would tolerate that. I never suggested that such a thing would be warmly received, nor that there wouldn't be any backlash. The Dragon Sun was a perversion of normative Raibanthi theology, yet reigned for 30+ years. RW religious reform is frequently the successor to political and economic reform, and has, generally, to be enforced. Would it involve blood and horror? No doubt. That doesn't rule it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said: I never suggested that such a thing would be warmly received, nor that there wouldn't be any backlash. The Dragon Sun was a perversion of normative Raibanthi theology, yet reigned for 30+ years. RW religious reform is frequently the successor to political and economic reform, and has, generally, to be enforced. Would it involve blood and horror? No doubt. That doesn't rule it out. The Dragon Sun was imposed upon Dara Happa by the EWF. Its weaknesses should be obvious with hindsight - despite being backed by a very powerful empire, the Dragon Sun was overthrown by a pauper. The Lunars definitely know this story. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jeff said: The Dragon Sun was imposed upon Dara Happa by the EWF. Its weaknesses should be obvious with hindsight - despite being backed by a very powerful empire, the Dragon Sun was overthrown by a pauper. The Lunars definitely know this story. Yep, exactly what I said. A religious change acknowledging a new political reality, enforced yet overthrown by a traditionalist backlash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 There is an Empress according to one ruler list. Maleloa the Queen (Fortunate Succession p80 and p88), although she's a Spolite Empiress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) RW of course, but Hapshepshut (sp?) was a female Pharaoh Another element to be considered with the Dragon Sun is that it was a powerful internal movement for reform. Cf reign of Elmatrayan, 'discovery' of Dismanthuyar, instant conversions etc etc Edited January 5, 2020 by Ali the Helering 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindalos Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Jeff said: Moonson is always the Son of the Red Goddess. He is a masculine counterpoint to the feminine Goddess. This is an important part of Lunar theology. Jar-eel is powerful enough and popular enough to otherwise be a candidate, but isn't. Having a female Moonson would be extremely magically dangerous (the Emperor would be very susceptible to losing identification battles which would be disastrous). I can't imagine a situation where Great Sister or Jar-eel would tolerate that. Which of course is fun as some contributors to the Red Emperor are female, such as Flower Poem. Lunar philosophies presumably allow for a male gestalt with female contributors? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Godspeed Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 10 hours ago, metcalph said: There is an Empress according to one ruler list. Maleloa the Queen (Fortunate Succession p80 and p88), although she's a Spolite Empiress. This is interesting. The Spolite Empire is always interesting (unless we're talking about a Spolite-descended Carmanian empress or something). Do we know if they were a consort or regnant? Perhaps a de facto reigning dowager empress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eff Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) On 1/4/2020 at 8:25 AM, HeartQuintessence said: So if the MoonSon is simply a Mask, why has the emperor never been female, if anyone can be chosen? Also I know the Lunar Imperial Handbooks exist, but this all so interesting we need a new 'interior Lunar book' or two, to see what the Empire is like, from the inside, the culture and cults and expectations. A friend of mine who's somewhat more of a casual fan read the description of Magnificus's rapidly-changing beard and concluded that the Red Emperors were actually all Red Empresses cross-dressing for the sake of appearances. Obviously not canonical, though there are some interesting aspects around the question of what constitutes an Inspiration of Moonson versus a regular child, the lack of any known masculine children of a Mask, etc., which might intimate the Red Emperor's masculinity is rather divergent in nature. Edited January 5, 2020 by Eff 1 1 Quote "And I am pretty tired of all this fuss about rfevealign that many worshippers of a minor goddess might be lesbians." -Greg Stafford, April 11, 2007 "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eff Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Damn it, a double post. Edited January 5, 2020 by Eff Quote "And I am pretty tired of all this fuss about rfevealign that many worshippers of a minor goddess might be lesbians." -Greg Stafford, April 11, 2007 "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali the Helering Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said: This is interesting. The Spolite Empire is always interesting (unless we're talking about a Spolite-descended Carmanian empress or something). Do we know if they were a consort or regnant? Perhaps a de facto reigning dowager empress? Unfortunately there is nothing besides her place within the Unity List at 48, between Glaumalos and Verendekelm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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