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g33k

Is Desemborth Orlanth?

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Desemborth is a thief, one of the warband of Vingkot, possibly a Thunder Brother.

Possibly "the thief god" of the Orlanthi.

Possibly a mask or an avatar or an aspect of Orlanth, "Orlanth the thief" in a similar way to how Vinga is "Orlanth the woman;" separate, but the same (gods are weird that way).

Possibly this has changed, through the years and the iterations of publication?  Possibly this has always been ambiguous?  Possibly I don't know what the f--- I'm talkwriting about?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, g33k said:

... Possibly a mask or an avatar or an aspect of Orlanth, "Orlanth the thief" in a similar way to how Vinga is "Orlanth the woman;" separate, but the same (gods are weird that way) ...

Which leads me in turn to wonder about red-headed female  thieves .

What other separate-identity masks does Orlanth have?

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14 minutes ago, g33k said:

Possibly a mask or an avatar or an aspect of Orlanth, "Orlanth the thief" in a similar way to how Vinga is "Orlanth the woman;" separate, but the same (gods are weird that way).

Well, you know, this is quite a common and expected behaviour from shapeshifters, I'll have you know!
Shapeshifter psychology 101! :P

Though, to be fair, Gods and their avatar is even more advanced... no shapeshift need be involved, just create tailor made body (or grow the natural way?) for each occasions! 😮

Edited by Lloyd Dupont

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14 hours ago, JustAnotherVingan said:

According to Thunder Rebels Desemborth was a name Orlanth took when he first stole. Quite a lot of the subcults of Orlanth in that book are names for Orlanth in a particular role.

Yup. I can't remember all the names (although I'm sure someone will fill in), but I know that Orlanth took unique names when he first descended from Dini to explore, when he caroused with Velhara, when he secretly courted Ernalda, when he fooled around in ram-form and with Yinkin, when he was enslaved in a mine in the north, and probably a ton of other sobriquets. 

It's very true to form. Odin and Zeus did the same thing, iirc.

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According to Thunder Rebels the following were all names for Orlanth. Not all of them seem to be identities that have stories attached. some are more like titles for Orlanth when he was acting in that capacity.

Desemborth=Thief

Drogarsi=Skald

Niskis=Lover

Orvanshagor=Dragonslayer

Varanorlanth=The Wild

Dar=Leader

Orlanthcarl=Farmer

Orolmarn=Herder

Orlanthandrin=Lawmaker

Orlanthdovar=The Faithful

Edited by JustAnotherVingan
Missed out a source
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The way I see many of the Thunder Brothers is that Orlanth did something, then Orlanth became known for doing something, then Orlanth cast off doing something into a devolved son, or Thunder Brother. So, Desemborth is both Orlanth the Thief and Desemborth the Thief, Son of Orlanth. Vinga is both Orlanth the Woman and Daughter of Orlanth. Orlanthcarl is both Orlanth the Farmer and Barntar the Farmer, Son of Orlanth.

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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

The way I see many of the Thunder Brothers is that Orlanth did something, then Orlanth became known for doing something, then Orlanth cast off doing something into a devolved son, or Thunder Brother. So, Desemborth is both Orlanth the Thief and Desemborth the Thief, Son of Orlanth. Vinga is both Orlanth the Woman and Daughter of Orlanth. Orlanthcarl is both Orlanth the Farmer and Barntar the Farmer, Son of Orlanth.

That's largely how I view it. Whether something is a son, nom de guerre, or an aspect (or sometimes a companion) isn't hugely important in divine matters. 

Although, there are some deities that are explicitly stated not to be aspects, but separate offspring, like Barntar or Durev.

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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

The way I see many of the Thunder Brothers is that Orlanth did something, then Orlanth became known for doing something, then Orlanth cast off doing something into a devolved son, or Thunder Brother. So, Desemborth is both Orlanth the Thief and Desemborth the Thief, Son of Orlanth. Vinga is both Orlanth the Woman and Daughter of Orlanth. Orlanthcarl is both Orlanth the Farmer and Barntar the Farmer, Son of Orlanth.

Damn Godlearner.

To me it doesn't matter. Theres a lot of Vingans who worship Vinga  and theres some theorists who reckon they ae actually worshipping Orlanth but the net result is the same.

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Also, the modern Orlanth cult is a result of efforts (particularly by the First Council in the First Age, and by first the EWF and then the Alakoringites in opposition in the late Second Age) to make a cult that was originally pretty culturally heterogenous into a single unified mythology. Bronze Age cults naturally tend contain many divergent local traditions, and for these local traditions to continually keep evolving new local differences (while it is the natural tendency of Empires to promote homogeneity). A lot of these 'aspects' or Orlanth might have once been a local variation. A single hero discovers a new myth, or an ancient one prior to the First Council somehow is discovered, it is promoted locally, eventually the wider religion incorporates it as an aspect.

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