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Harshax

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Or alternative mechanisms you might consider to address these two issues (which I use) are:

1) Limiting number of ticks to INT. (Not such an admin overhead as you might think, because it only needs to be assessed at the time gain-rolls are done).

2) Having one essential skill characterizing each 'profession', which are restricted (due to guild politics or whatever): Martial Arts; Magic; Allegiance; and (enhanced) Sleight.

That way, there's no need for go so far towards D&D by defining every skill's availability to each class, or using XPs. And I suggest it's easier. But then you might prefer that for the "essential D&D experience"!

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Regarding class-based BRP, there are two issues.

The easiest way around this is to give each class two skill lists, the first is a set oc core skills that are spcial to the class, the second is a set of skills that are typical for the class, and to make it easier to improve those skills, or more difficult to improve other skills. If you use the restricted experience gains as above then skills not your class's lists cost 2 XP to improve rather than 1 XP. You could even say that skills from another class's core list cost 3XP to improve. If you don't use restricted improvement, then assign a bonus or penalty to class/non-class skills, so I might get a +10% bonus to improve skills in my preferred list, -10% to improving skills that are not in any core list and a -20% to improving skills in another class's core list.

How I handle it in Sword & Spell is each class has a set of skills, class skills, that increase at a rate of 1D8 per skill increase instead of 1D6. That way everyone can climb walls, but the thief is going to do it better, everyone can perform, but the bard excels at it, and everyone can fight, but the fighter gains the most from it, etc. In addition, each class has some specific skills that can begin 10% higher than the same skill in another class.

Granted, this may not be a system for everyone, but Sword & Spell IS trying to emulate the D&D class system, and thus avoid the jack of all trades outcome of a normal RQ/BRP campaign.

Rod

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"D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20"

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What is this term? ur-skills?

From Dictionary.com:

ur- Look up ur- at Dictionary.com

prefix meaning "original, earliest, primitive," from Ger. "original, primitive;" at first only in words borrowed from Ger. (cf. ursprache "hypothetical primitive language," attested in Eng. from 1908), now a living prefix in Eng. Cf. also Urschleim under protoplasm and Urquell under Pilsner

No negative connotations implied. I learned of it from mythology (an Ur-Cow I think figures in creation stories) and use it as shorthand for basic/core/prototypic rules and concepts.

Edited by sdavies2720

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2. I've created an interesting alternative for generating Characteristics for the core races (using d8's or d6's whenever necessary to get the proper range): Half Orcs for example get 3d6+2 for STR, CON, 1d8+10 SIZ but only a 2d8 for INT, POW, and CHA. Their DEX is 3d6.

Is it considered common-knowledge for stats to be rolled in-order for BRP?

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Is it considered common-knowledge for stats to be rolled in-order for BRP?

I would say so, but it depends. When I ran Elric!, I'd let players arrange them as desired, since all stats were generated using the 2d6+6 method.

For the first year or five that I was running RQ3, I'd roll in order. Later, I let players rearrange any attributes that had the same dice range. For humans, this meant they could rearrange STR, CON, POW, DEX, and APP, or they could swap SIZ and INT.

If you're going to run something gritty, then do it in order, otherwise choose a method that satisfies both yourself and your players.

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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Is it considered common-knowledge for stats to be rolled in-order for BRP?

Depends which flavour of BRP

RQII offers lots of freedom in the appendices

RQIII roll in order is the way

Elric! roll and allocate is the way (for humans at least)

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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otherwise choose a method that satisfies both yourself and your players.

That's always the most important guideline that I go for with my games!

As far as D&BRP, I wonder if defining skill sets via professions would work as far as getting closer to the class system, but yet not restrict the players too much. I think I'm going to look into something like that for my re-write of my campaign world using the BRP system.

You get more skill points to spread in profession skills and perhaps get a higher experience gain, i.e. 1d8 instead of 1d6 for profession skills. What do you guys think of that route?

Skunk - 285/420 BRP book

You wanna be alright you gotta walk tall

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Slightly out of left field

I am far too lazy to do the book keeping which the other (far better simulations) suggested here already.

I always prefer giving player choice and like them to choose skills which aren't immediately useful for flavour (inspired by a throwaway line in Cults of Prax along the lines of skills such as Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing which aren't useful to an adventurer)

And so when I ran RQIII I gave 30 percentiles per year over 10 (15 as written)

and

an additional 30 percentiles per year over 10 to be allocated on non-active skills

So for D&BRP could one have

Edu x30 for Professional skills

and

Edu x30 for any old skills

?

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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As far as D&BRP, I wonder if defining skill sets via professions would work as far as getting closer to the class system, but yet not restrict the players too much. I think I'm going to look into something like that for my re-write of my campaign world using the BRP system.

You get more skill points to spread in profession skills and perhaps get a higher experience gain, i.e. 1d8 instead of 1d6 for profession skills. What do you guys think of that route?

What about nicking the cultural professions from RQIII? It provides clearly focused character generation, and only says what the character has been doing up to that point without restricting what they can do after they enter play. Adding some points for the players to scatter among other skills would also be good.

After entering play, players could pursue what they wished, any other restrictions coming from cultural and organizational factors.

SDLeary

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A lot of you have some very similar ideas. Here's my attempt to put them into some kind of rule-speak:

A starting character (Age 17 +1d6) can only spend their initial allotment on skills within their profession. The profession skills are highly limited in scope, so as to make characters lean toward iconic 'classes'. Skills in italic are guild skills.

Example

Fighter - Command, First Aid, Strategy, Climb, Dodge, Jump, Ride, Swim, Throw, Martial Arts [Any], Weapon Skills [Any, Including Shields, and Parry Skills]

Assassin - Disguise, Fine Manipulation, Listen, Spot, Climb, Stealth, Throw, Weapon Skills, Craft [Alchemy: Poisons], Handle Poison, Murder [species]

If the player wishes to create an older character, those skill points gained can be spent anywhere. Older characters (each 10 years older than starting age), get 30 skill points to spend on any other skill. These additional skill points cannot be spent on other guild skills unless the character belongs to that guild as well (GM's approval).

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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Being slightly overwhelmed with the volume of D&D concepts I want to convert, I'm going to concentrate on Basic. Once I'm comfortable with this, this document will expand to Advanced.

Things so far:

RACES

Dwarf

Dwarves are both stout and broad. Their wide frame and dense bones of the dwarves reinforce the notion that they are made from the bedrocks of mountains. While they never grow taller than 5', they can weigh up to 200 lbs.

Special Abilities: Dwarves can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and dwarves can function just fine with no light at all. Dwarves possess Stunecunning (CON x2), which is the natural ability to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn't stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up.

Elf

Special Abilities: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Having superb senses, Sense and Spot have a starting value of 20% and 35% respectively. Elves are naturally immune to the paralyzing touch of ghouls. Born of a rich magical tradition, elves may spend any of their starting skill points on Magic. These spells must come from the Magic-User spell list.

Halfling

Special Abilities: Halflings are both small and stealthy. As such, Hide and Stealth have a starting value of 30%, while Dodge is 20% higher than the starting value of DEX x2.

Human

Special Abilities: May spend up to 100 of their starting skill points on any skill outside their profession.


Race       STR     CON     SIZ     INT     POW     DEX     APP

Dwarf      3d6     2d6+8   2d6+6   2d6+6   3d6     3d6     2d8

Elf        3d6     2d8     2d8     2d6+6   3d6     3d6+2   3d6

Halfling   2d8     2d6+6   1d6+3   2d6+6   3d6     2d6+8   3d6

Human      3d6     3d6     2d6+6   2d6+6   3d6     3d6     3d6

SKILLS & PROFESSIONS

Universal Skills:

Communication: Any, except Command

Manipulation: None

Mental: Appraise, First Aid

Perception: Any

Physical: Climb, Dodge, Jump, Ride, Swim, Throw

Combat: None

Cleric

Weapon Skills: Club, Hammer, Mace, Shield, Sling, Staff

Skills: Medicine, Knowledge [Various]

Special: Clerics begin the game with 2-points of Divine Magic

Fighter

Weapon Skills: Any

Skills: Command, Strategy, Martial Arts [Various]

Thief

Weapon Skills: Bow, Club, Crossbow, Dagger, Mace, Sling, Staff, Sword

Skills: Fine Manipulation, Sleight of Hand, Hide, Stealth

Magic-User

Weapon Skills: Dagger, Staff

Skills: Knowledge [Various], Magic [Various]

MAGIC

Divine vs. Arcane

Arcane Magic and Armor

Trappings

Certain spells have trappings that can be altered to fit the character spellcasting style, or the players ascetics. Let's take Flame for example. Instead of a pillar of fire rising from the ground, it could be a ball of flame fired from the magic-user's fingertip. A large application of Flame; one that effects multiple squares; might look like a small streaking mote that explodes on impact, or a fan of flames that erupts from the magic-users outstretched hands.

Spell Lists

Cleric: Control, Countermagic, Dark, Diminish, Dispel, Dull, Enhance, Flame, Heal, Light, Perception, Protection, Resistance, Sharpen, Silence, Speak To Mind, Ward, Wound

Magic-User: Blast, Change, Conjure Elemental, Control, Countermagic, Dark, Diminish, Dispel, Dull, Enhance, Flame, Frost, Illusion, Invisibility, Lift, Light, Lightning, Perception, Protection, Resistance, Seal, Sharpen, Speak To Mind, Teleport, Unseal, Vision, Wall, Ward, Wound

NEW SPELLS

Silence

DB2: Caves of Horrendous Chaos

The module I intend to unapologetically rip off.

MONSTERS

Edited by Harshax

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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Being slightly overwhelmed with the volume of D&D concepts I want to convert, I'm going to concentrate on Basic. Once I'm comfortable with this, this document will expand to Advanced.

Looks good to me so far!

What about nicking the cultural professions from RQIII? It provides clearly focused character generation, and only says what the character has been doing up to that point without restricting what they can do after they enter play. Adding some points for the players to scatter among other skills would also be good.

After entering play, players could pursue what they wished, any other restrictions coming from cultural and organizational factors.

SDLeary

That's what I was leaning toward myself!

Edited by Skunkape
Commented on SDLeary's reply.

Skunk - 285/420 BRP book

You wanna be alright you gotta walk tall

Long Beach Dub Allstars & Black Eyed Peas

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Is it considered common-knowledge for stats to be rolled in-order for BRP?

It depends, as mentioned. For Elric! and SB5, humans roll the same 2d6+6 for

all stats, but assign at will. A GM could decide to have the players assign in

order. RQIII uses 3d6 for all stats IIRC, and as mentioned, the default is

assign in order.

But, in Harshax's half-orc example (and Elric!/SB5's non-human races), stats

are not all rolled using the same mechanic, so some stats had to be assigned

as rolled i.e. Melnibonean's rolled 2d8+2 for some stats, 2d8+4 for others,

and 2d8+8 for others. So, stats had to be assigned based upon roll. Again,

the GM could allow each "die group" of stats to be assigned within the group,

for example, Melniboneans roll 2d8+2 for STR and CON, so the player could

roll 2d8+2 twice and choose which roll goes into STR and which into CON.

Same with 2d8+4 for DEX and SIZ, and 2d8+8 for INT, POW and APP.

-V

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It depends, as mentioned. For Elric! and SB5, humans roll the same 2d6+6 for

all stats, but assign at will. A GM could decide to have the players assign in

order. RQIII uses 3d6 for all stats IIRC, and as mentioned, the default is

assign in order.

But, in Harshax's half-orc example (and Elric!/SB5's non-human races), stats

are not all rolled using the same mechanic, so some stats had to be assigned

as rolled i.e. Melnibonean's rolled 2d8+2 for some stats, 2d8+4 for others,

and 2d8+8 for others. So, stats had to be assigned based upon roll. Again,

the GM could allow each "die group" of stats to be assigned within the group,

for example, Melniboneans roll 2d8+2 for STR and CON, so the player could

roll 2d8+2 twice and choose which roll goes into STR and which into CON.

Same with 2d8+4 for DEX and SIZ, and 2d8+8 for INT, POW and APP.

-V

Or roll 2d8 seven times

allocate those

then add the fiddly constants

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

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I'd say, for that authentic D&D experience, you should do all stats as '4d6 best 3, strict order', then add modifiers for race etc.

Arcane Magic and Armor

Go on then, tell us - what's your take on this? And can Elves cast in armour or not?

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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I'd say, for that authentic D&D experience, you should do all stats as '4d6 best 3, strict order', then add modifiers for race etc.

That has been the challenge thus far. Do I want an authentic D&D experience, or a better one?

Go on then, tell us - what's your take on this? And can Elves cast in armour or not?
The physical penalty for armor is doubly applied to spell casting. Elves suffer half this penalty. Elven armor (mithril) halves this penalty, or for elves, nullifies it completely.

:)

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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That has been the challenge thus far. Do I want an authentic D&D experience, or a better one?

Well, being BRP-based it's going to be streets better than 'authentic D&D' either way. So this probably just depends on your players. Mine were dyed-in-the-wool D&Ders, so leaving them with the familiar '4d6 best 3' gave 'em some consolation! It's not really so important that it needed changing. If your players are coming from a BRP background, the same principle leads to the opposite result.

The physical penalty for armor is doubly applied to spell casting. Elves suffer half this penalty. Elven armor (mithril) halves this penalty, or for elves, nullifies it completely.

Hmm, are you sure you could live with Magic-Users in Ring Mail & Heavy Padding (7AP) (+Heavy Helmet, is that another 2?) for only a -30% penalty (or elves -15%)?

I use a different idea, which you might like to consider: the armour penalty adds to the fumble chance for (non-divine) spell-casting. Coupled with an 'amusing' magic fumble table, I find that does the job... ;)

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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This whole thread has me scratching my head. Since I've been on these boards, BRP enthusiasts have persistently proclaimed that they enjoy Runequest, et. al., because "it's NOT Brand X." So why would you want to make your beloved game system more like the one you ditched when you saw the light and abandoned d20s for d10s? :shocked: :D

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This whole thread has me scratching my head. Since I've been on these boards, BRP enthusiasts have persistently proclaimed that they enjoy Runequest, et. al., because "it's NOT Brand X." So why would you want to make your beloved game system more like the one you ditched when you saw the light and abandoned d20s for d10s? :shocked: :D

Can't speak for others, but for me it was to wean my 'Brand X'-playing friends onto a better system. I couldn't live with myself (well, I couldn't bring myself to keep on GMing) if I gave them an inferior RPG experience. Not wanting to change the feel of my (albeit vanilla fantasy) campaign too much, or force the players to bin their characters, I have 'evolved' it and them over the years, while keeping the class-type restrictions and old familiar spells. (But I have run Gloranthan RQ2 from time to time, too.) This way, I've managed to bring them with me. Even the d100-phobe, and the guy who still always says he'll "never play RuneQuest"... ;)

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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This whole thread has me scratching my head. Since I've been on these boards, BRP enthusiasts have persistently proclaimed that they enjoy Runequest, et. al., because "it's NOT Brand X." So why would you want to make your beloved game system more like the one you ditched when you saw the light and abandoned d20s for d10s? :shocked: :D

I'm not one of those people. I dislike Brand Anything bashers. I proudly played D&D for years. I have a lot of unplayed material for that game. At the moment, there is nothing BRP on the market that does the D&D genre. So I'm making do, by creating the vaneer necessary for me to enjoy D&D, but using the BRP engine. Got it?

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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[i'm kind of all over the place with my design at the moment. I just work on whatever comes to mind. I might be nearly done.]

Arcane Magic

Arcane magic works as described in the Powers Chapter, under Magic. See page 88 in the Basic Roleplaying rulebook for more information.

Armor & Arcane Magic

Armor, or other heavy clothing, is restrictive to the practice of magic. Double the physical penalty for wearing armor to any arcane magic attempts. Elves suffer one half this penalty.

Divine Magic

Magic granted from the gods works differently than arcane magic. Divine spells are not skills, work 99% of the time, and are not affected by armor penalties. Spells are learned by sacrificing permanent POW to the gods, and when cast, temporarily fade from memory.

To learn divine magic, a candidate must travel to a shrine or temple dedicated to their deity. If the character has not committed any transgressions against the cult and is deemed morally satisfactory, he may sacrifices 1 point of permanent POW to create a link between himself and his deity. Characters that start play as clerics have already performed this sacrifice. Once a member of the cult, an initiate may sacrifice more points of POW to their deity, in exchange for magic.

An initiate must pray for their deity's magic. This is usually done at a certain time of day and under conditions considered holy to the religion. The initiate must also have access to their holy symbol. Once these conditions are met, the initiate can request a number of spells equal to the total amount of POW sacrificed to the deity (not counting the first point used to establish the link with the divine).

Divine magic spells are fueled with the caster's own Magic Points, are always cast with 100% skill, will only fail on a result of '00', and can not be fumbled. Casting divine magic works just like arcane magic. However, the maximum level of any spell is equal to half the caster's POW, not INT. Once cast, successful or not, the spell fades from memory. An initiate must therefore request multiple castings of a spell if they wish to use it more than once per day.

Spells still in memory when an initiate prays for their allotment of magic may simply 'return' the magic in exchange for different spells. Sometimes a deity will grant different spells, either on a whim, to punish the initiate for a mild transgression, or because they foresee the character needing a different power sometime in the future.

Example: Thalos, priest of Grod the Mighty Volcano, prays to his deity for magic. Since his initiation, Thalos has sacrificed 6 points of POW to his deity. Looking over his available spells, and knowing he intends to assault an orc fortress this evening, he requests one casting each of Dispel and Protection, and two castings of Flame and Healing.

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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This whole thread has me scratching my head. Since I've been on these boards, BRP enthusiasts have persistently proclaimed that they enjoy Runequest, et. al., because "it's NOT Brand X." So why would you want to make your beloved game system more like the one you ditched when you saw the light and abandoned d20s for d10s? :shocked: :D

I know what you mean. A D&D emulator for BRP?:confused:

Not to knock any game system, but I don't see the rationale behind this. It would seem to me that if one wanted to have the "D&D experience" one could just play D&D.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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If you hadn't noticed, I'm not trying to create D&D. I'm drafting a BRP driven game in the D&D genre - high fantasy & dungeon delving. Last I looked, there wasn't a brp supplement out there that does this. It would be another matter if I had Elric! But alas, I do not. Even if I did, it would require work on my part to add the missing elements.

So far, I haven't done anything to make BRP any different than it already is. I've chosen which optional rules to use, drafted up some professions, racial characteristics, divine magic rules, arcane spellfailure rules, and created a spell or three.

But it is all obviously BRP. You may not be crapping on a game system, but you've certain made your opinion of how you feel about this particular genre known. If you would kindly leave this thread alone, I'd much appreciate it.

I know what you mean. A D&D emulator for BRP?:confused:

Not to knock any game system, but I don't see the rationale behind this. It would seem to me that if one wanted to have the "D&D experience" one could just play D&D.

And don't forget Realism Rule # 1 "If you can do it in real life you should be able to do it in BRP". - Simon Phipp

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I know what you mean. A D&D emulator for BRP?:confused:

Not to knock any game system, but I don't see the rationale behind this. It would seem to me that if one wanted to have the "D&D experience" one could just play D&D.

I can never understand this statement when someone comes out with it and people tend to quite a lot.

Following this line of reasoning, no one should make a BRP Star Wars game becouse there is already a WOTC version and a WEG version, just play one of those. Don't bother with a BRP Star Trek becouse FASA and Last Unicorn (?) already had their versions of that. Someone should tell Fergo113 that he can quit his conversion of Middle Earth becouse if someone wants the Middle Earth experiance they can play the ICE version or the Decipher version.

Why do some people think that the D&D experiance has to mean the D&D rule system? For me the D&D experiance is The World of Greyhawk setting and the adventures Against The Giants, Decent into the Depths of the Earth, Vault of the Drow, and Queen of the Demon Web Pits, just to name a few.

And being able to enjoy those old "classics" of role playing again with an awesome game system is what this thread seems to be about.

Thanks Harshaks

Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info

"D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20"

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Not to knock any game system, but I don't see the rationale behind this. It would seem to me that if one wanted to have the "D&D experience" one could just play D&D.

Well, if I couldn't knock the D&D game system, I wouldn't have any reason! But I do rate D&D as inferior - RQ/BRP is better. Why? For me, the most important reasons are...

- Ticks-for-Skills (D&D's "XP-for-Killing" makes for bad RP: NPCs tend to be just faceless XP fodder.)

- Limited Hit Points (D&D's increasing HPs creates bullies, not heroes. Combat is too safe & easy, with race-stereotype hordes as fuel.)

Preserving the character of a D&D-style campaign with the classic magic/spells and class-like professions needn't compromise either of those principles (or any other good things about BRP, such as rules-simplicity, character-individuality, etc).

Alternatively, if you look at it as rules to create a particular type of setting for BRP, does that help?

Edited by frogspawner

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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