Shield vs Sword

[Shiningbrow]

7 hours ago, Mugen said:

But, again, less expensive than a lost limb. 

Fighting with a shield requires two skills, and it's their major problem in this edition, as your character could die because you tried to parry with his 70% shield skill instead of his 80% sword skill.

MGF? Or just another simplification?

[Shiningbrow]

11 hours ago, JustAnotherVingan said:

From what I've been reading bronze shields were pretty rare and probably expensive.

https://www.academia.edu/1200494/THE_FUNCTION_OF_BRONZE_AGE_SHIELDS

 

Undoubtedly... But we are making heroes here, so the PCs are pretty rare too!

[Mugen]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

MGF? Or just another simplification?

What do you mean'by MGF ?

[Mugen]

6 hours ago, Godweyn said:

Then again, the weapons tend to break pretty easy, so, I’ll prefer to lose that wooden shield to my broadsword.

And, again, if your skills are different, protecting your main weapon instead of your body is not a good idea.

Of course, if your shield skill is equal or superior to your sword skill, there's no reason not to use it. But due to the very random nature of experience in RQ, it's very likely they'll diverge.

A!so, trying to have similar skill levels in both sword and shield skills is not a good defensive strategy. Say you have to chose between having 85/85, 90/70 or 70/90, it's better to go 90/70 or 70/90, because missing your parry means you'll block 0 points instead of 12 to 16. And you don't need to use your shield skill to benefit from its passive protection.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Mugen

[Kloster]

20 hours ago, Godweyn said:

Then again, the weapons tend to break pretty easy, so, I’ll prefer to lose that wooden shield to my broadsword.

This is one of the reason why, whatever the rule, my characters use shields.

[Shiningbrow]

21 hours ago, Mugen said:

Say you have to chose between having 85/85, 90/70 or 70/90, it's better to go 90/70 or 70/90, because missing your parry means you'll block 0 points instead of 12 to 16. And you don't need to use your shield skill to benefit from its passive protection.

Assuming A/P, it's probably better to go 70/90... Then 85/85. While quick kills are important staying alive is more so. So the higher the parry the better.

Some may disagree, and suggest the quicker kill is better...

[Mugen]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Assuming A/P, it's probably better to go 70/90... Then 85/85. While quick kills are important staying alive is more so. So the higher the parry the better.

Some may disagree, and suggest the quicker kill is better...

As I'm speaking of RQG and not a previous edition, it's not Attack/Parry but Main Hand/Shield. I'm assuming someone with 90% sword will parry with his sword, and not risk taking a nasty hit because of the 20% difference between skills. He'll still benefit from the shield protection from missile and added AP to some locations.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Mugen

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, Mugen said:

As I'm speaking of RQG and not a previous edition, it's not Attack/Parry but Main Hand/Shield. I'm assuming someone with 90% sword will parry with his sword, and not risk taking a nasty hit because of the 20% difference between skills. He'll still benefit from the shield protection from missile and added AP to some locations.

I got that... A = sword attack. P = shield parry...

[Mugen]

Wow, I just noticed on RQG character sheet that there are 3 shield skills, which means that if I start with a medium shield and loot find a kite shield, I'll have to grow a new skill to use it. Fighting with a shield is really difficult in Glorantha.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Mugen

[Bill the barbarian]

6 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Wow, I just noticed on RQG character sheet that there are 3 shield skills, which means that if I start with a medium shield and loot find a kite shield, I'll have to grow a new skill to use it. Fighting with a shield is really difficult in Glorantha.

Of course you will not be starting at base, but at half of the skill you have for another shield.

[Mugen]

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Of course you will not be starting at base, but at half of the skill you have for another shield.

Sure, but will you risk using it in combat in order to gain experience with it ?

[Bill the barbarian]

26 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Sure, but will you risk using it in combat in order to gain experience with it ?

Depends on the circumstances, yes?

[Akhôrahil]

Parry with the sword then shield bash, just enough to get your check? Shouldn't be a huge hassle.

[7Tigers]

58 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Sure, but will you risk using it in combat in order to gain experience with it ?

Well, I have had countless players switching weapons for their adventurer as soon as a success check was made, even in a middle of a fight, so 😁 ...

Edited February 5, 2020 by 7Tigers

[Akhôrahil]

30 minutes ago, 7Tigers said:

Well, I have had countless players switching weapons for their adventurer as soon as a success check was made, even in a middle of a fight, so 😁 ...

"I cast Slow on him."
"But he's already slowed."
"Hey, he might... dispel one of them or something."

Edited February 5, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Shiningbrow]

On 2/3/2020 at 12:53 AM, soltakss said:

But, they used wicker and wooden shield very effectively. I think that the Hittites used wicker shields, as did the Egyptians, at some points in the Bronze Age.

What sort of HP for a wooden shield with bronze (or even iron) time & boss?

[Mugen]

17 hours ago, 7Tigers said:

Well, I have had countless players switching weapons for their adventurer as soon as a success check was made, even in a middle of a fight, so 😁 ...

Hey, I lost my right arm and left leg, but finally earned an experience check. Totally worth it !

Edited February 6, 2020 by Mugen

[Akhôrahil]

2 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Hey, I lost my left arm and right leg, but finally earned an experience check. Totally worth it !

Loss of limb is temporary; Exp is forever!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Mugen]

2 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Loss of limb is temporary; Exp is forever!

Did I mention it was a ghost speaking ?

[soltakss]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:35 PM, 7Tigers said:

Well, I have had countless players switching weapons for their adventurer as soon as a success check was made, even in a middle of a fight, so 😁 ...

We disallowed that in our RQ2 campaign, except for Trog.

Trog was a Minotaur and used to go into Battle rage at the drop of a hat. He also had INT 6. as most of his weapon skills were above 100%, he only had a 6% chance of increasing them, so we allowed him to drop weapons and pull out new ones in combat.

The only time we allowed it was when fighting creatures not affected by certain weapons, so if we used a spear and some skeletons attacked then it was OK to switch to a sword.

[Atgxtg]

On 2/5/2020 at 9:35 AM, 7Tigers said:

Well, I have had countless players switching weapons for their adventurer as soon as a success check was made, even in a middle of a fight, so 😁 ...

LOL! I've have new players try that, but most quickly learn that it's not worth it. By switching weapons the player prolongs the fight, giving opponents more attacks and thus more chances to score a lucky special or critical hit. This ends up increasing thier mortialy rate and the characters tend to die off faster. It's not worth it, especially since it's better to be great at one weapon rather than mediocre at ten.

[Atgxtg]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:53 AM, soltakss said:

But, they used wicker and wooden shield very effectively. I think that the Hittites used wicker shields, as did the Egyptians, at some points in the Bronze Age.

Yeah. There are reasons for that. 

First off, in the real world shields don't really have to soak the damage of the attack. THe shield stops the weapon from penetrating the body, and energy spent moving the shield and shield arm is energy that isn't applied tot he body.

Next is the fact that ancients tended to fight with spears and sword cutting weapons as opposed to axes, mauls and greatswords. The actual damage tot he shield wasn't so bad. Since the shield arm moves with the blow, cutting through a wicker shield is a lot like trying to hack through the jungle. It takes awhile.

 

There was an article for RQ3 to wicker shields and such, but in general thier AP scores were so low as to be mostly worthless, which was a pity. 

[Mugen]

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Yeah. There are reasons for that. 

First off, in the real world shields don't really have to soak the damage of the attack. THe shield stops the weapon from penetrating the body, and energy spent moving the shield and shield arm is energy that isn't applied tot he body.

Next is the fact that ancients tended to fight with spears and sword cutting weapons as opposed to axes, mauls and greatswords. The actual damage tot he shield wasn't so bad. Since the shield arm moves with the blow, cutting through a wicker shield is a lot like trying to hack through the jungle. It takes awhile.

 

There was an article for RQ3 to wicker shields and such, but in general thier AP scores were so low as to be mostly worthless, which was a pity. 

IMHO, having one value for protection value and durability only really works for bronze items. Items made with a more resistant material should not protect more, only stay in shape longer.

 

[Atgxtg]

7 hours ago, Mugen said:

IMHO, having one value for protection value and durability only really works for bronze items. Items made with a more resistant material should not protect more, only stay in shape longer.

IMO it's more complicated that that. A big heavy weapon like a poleaxe or maul might just smash through a lighter shield without it protecting much. And besides if your argument was true, then why not apply it to armor as well? I think varying protection based upon materials makes sense. Realistically for a given thickness, some material will protect more than others. 

I think the problem is that the protection ratings are tied to the size and coverage of the of the shield and shouldn't be. A small metal buckler should probably stop more damage that a big wicker tower shield. The size and coverage should instead affect the chances of blocking with the shield as opposed to the amount protected. A inch thick piece of oak is going to protect against a weapon about the same if it is 1 foot across or three.

[g33k]

On 2/5/2020 at 6:35 AM, 7Tigers said:

Well, I have had countless players switching weapons for their adventurer as soon as a success check was made, even in a middle of a fight, so 😁 ...

Ahhhh!

That'd be the most common character Class in old-school Glorantha games...

...

 

The Tick-Hunter.