Carrying capacity for mounts

[tnli]

There seems to be no rules regarding if your mount can carry you. Extrapolating from the humanoid ENC rules, it looks like an average horse would have a max ENC of 19 (26+13)/2, sufficient to carry a SIZ 13 rider and their 6 ENC of gear. But, wait, 6 ENC of gear is like light armor at best, not the heavy armour that a warhorse with SIZ and STR of at least 26 should be able to carry. 

A SIZ 13 rider will have about 12 ENC to have heavy armor, shield and a couple of weapons, meaning their poor war horsie would have to bear about 25 ENC, 6 points over it's Max ENC, reducing skills by -30% and MOV by 6.

This does not add up with the table on mount speed in the Bestiary, so what's up? 

For now, I'd propose that an active rider's SIZ is halved for the mounts encumbrance purposes, as I seem to recall from somewhere that a skilled rider is easier for a horse to carry than a dead corpse of the same weight. 

[Darius West]

On 2/5/2020 at 1:09 AM, tnli said:

There seems to be no rules regarding if your mount can carry you. Extrapolating from the humanoid ENC rules, it looks like an average horse would have a max ENC of 19 (26+13)/2, sufficient to carry a SIZ 13 rider and their 6 ENC of gear. But, wait, 6 ENC of gear is like light armor at best, not the heavy armour that a warhorse with SIZ and STR of at least 26 should be able to carry. 

A SIZ 13 rider will have about 12 ENC to have heavy armor, shield and a couple of weapons, meaning their poor war horsie would have to bear about 25 ENC, 6 points over it's Max ENC, reducing skills by -30% and MOV by 6.

This does not add up with the table on mount speed in the Bestiary, so what's up? 

For now, I'd propose that an active rider's SIZ is halved for the mounts encumbrance purposes, as I seem to recall from somewhere that a skilled rider is easier for a horse to carry than a dead corpse of the same weight. 

Those ENC rules are for human bipeds (with all their limitations).  A horse can comfortably carry 15-30% of their body weight.  An average modern horse weighs about 1200lb and so can carry about 240lb weight without major encumbrance. When pulling a wagon, everybody (4 and 2 legs alike)gets a x8 multiplier as a rule of thumb, but the style of tether used to attach the "muscle" to the wagon matters.  This is not RQ rules, but simplified rules IRL.

Remember that RQG saddlery is in its infancy too.  It amounts to a rope, a blanket, and perhaps a cushion, plus a very basic bridle, in most cases.  There are no stirrups, and most riders will likely wind their boots into the belly strap rope, or just use their thigh strength.  Glue spells begin to look attractive.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Darius West

[Jon Hunter]

Fudge it worrying about this is very unlikely to improve your game

 

[David Scott]

There's plenty of info on this subject and suspect some riders that could help here too, start with this

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bysiDAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA57&ots=3iJcpouVeT&dq=US Cavalry Manuals of Horse Management published in 1920&pg=PA56#v=onepage&q&f=false and  https://www.horsesciencenews.com/horseback-riding/how-much-weight-can-a-horse-carry.php for example.

Basically the rule of thumb is not more than the animal's 20% weight.

However I'd suggest "horse enc" things, small horses can carry up to 2, normal one 3, a bison 4, an impala 1, a high llama 4, a Sable 3:

tack, rider and stuff are 3 horse enc

tack, rider and armour are 3 horse enc

Players in my game often have a pack animal too. This works well in games. Unarmoured pygmies on impalas works now and you can 3 people on a bison or two on a horse.I allow half horse enc items with tack being half a horse enc for most praxians and 0 for bareback. High llama neck armour is half a horse enc. Or make up your own "special" values. I use this system when doing caravans across the Wastes. 

Ultimately it boils down to what John said.

[g33k]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

... stirrups...

oh, ye gods and goddesses!

Forgive him.

He knows not what evils he risks, by uttering this word on a RQ forum.

😉

More seriously:  this has been repeatedly debated and flame-warred.

Stirrup, or stirrup-not, there is no consensus.  YGWV.

[g33k]

7 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

Fudge it worrying about this is very unlikely to improve your game

 

Arguably, the same can be said for ALL enc-rules...  ☺️

[tnli]

ENC-rules are crucial, one more bag of loot or food for the return home? 

[JavaApp]

I brought up this issue recently as well, and Phil Hibbs and others helped me work it out, at least to my satisfaction. You should note that they don't necessarily endorse my method, nonetheless.

"A mount (of whatever type) may carry a rider with a SIZ equal to or less than that of the STR of the mount. You need not account for the weight of the rider or that of the mount's bridle, tack, fodder, and gear when figuring its ENC. Only calculate the ENC of the armor, weapons, equipment and loot of the rider that the mount will carry (in other words, the normal ENC of the adventurer). This may mean that the adventurers will need an extra mount or mule to carry food and loot; this will not appreciably slow the overland movement rate of the adventurers."

This was  a 'best of both worlds' sort of decision, and remains consistent with all current ENC and mount rules. 

It's not official at all, but I hope it helps some of you. 

Tangentially, the reason we have encumbrance rules at all was a) keep players from bearing inappropriate types of armor and arms (the librarian with plate and a pole axe) and to have players make choices about loot - how much of it to carry and how much it slows you down. If these issues don't bother you then great; you probably don't need encumbrance rules. 

In any case, RQG amounts of loot (in terms of coins) are much less than the loot awarded in RQ2, so the ENC rules don't have quite as much significance as they used to. 
 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, JavaApp said:

... 

Tangentially, the reason we have encumbrance rules at all was a) keep players from bearing inappropriate types of armor and arms (the librarian with plate and a pole axe) ...

In cases such as these, where the player says "I am carrying..." and the GM finds it unreasonable, the GM can simply say "no."

Or fiat a penalty.

Or whatever seems best on the spot.