BRP Mecha

[RosenMcStern]

Megawhats? I'm a Theatre major. I wouldn't know a megawatt from a metamorphosis.

How does someone with limited technical skills build mecha?

One of the best technical sources for data about mecha is http://www.mahq.net/. Most Real Robot series are there.

(Oh, and where are the mechs big enough to take on kaiju?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O69l5zoDVUM. All these guys are statted here on brp central, and with some effort they can take out a really big Kaiju, as you can see.

Important note: Mecha vs. kaijus is something that should be played using the Super Robot rule subset. The Real Robot variant would not work so well.

Final note -> prices are now in Euro to standardize the currency used. We ship anywhere within Earth's troposphere (expect some delay for locations within 10 miles/15 km from either Pole).

Now, the reason why BRP Mecha uses two different conversion factors is because different shows work on different power scales (literally), so in order to keep the POW scores playable Rosen provided two different ways to convert. At least I assume that's why he did it that way.

You guessed it right.

I did up some BRP stats for Gojira and some of the other Toho Kaiju (something that for legal reason Rosen couldn't do in BRP Mecha), that used their "real" SIZ scores, but I used a modified SIZ scale to do it. Otherwise a 20,000 ton Goji would be around SIZ 2000!

Some super-robot shows, most Kaiju/Gojira movies and Pacific Rim use measurements that could not possibly work in real life. It is interesting to note that when Super Robots team up together these measurements are negated: Getter Robot G is supposed to be 50m tall, that is more than twice as much as Great Mazinger, yet they are roughly the same size when pictured together. This is why I suggested to avoid going beyond SIZ class 3. A Jaeger might be represented with a SIZ Class 4 or 5, but not more.

How would you model a "mecha fantasy romance" series like Vision of Escaflowne (heavens, that dates me) where the mecha are powered by something unknown and indefinable?

Fudge and experiment, that is the only way. Just assign data you think appropriate, and then check whether it would be a match for an appropriate real world vehicle. That is the reason I put in so many real vehicles: to give you benchmarks to compare your Mecha with.

For instance:

1. Code Geass Knightmare: can beat tanks and helicopters, but they are still a match for it

2. Gundam-sized Real Robot: obliterates tanks, planes and choppers with little effort

3. Super-robot/Kaiju: able to take out battleships

Edited January 24, 2014 by RosenMcStern

[Atgxtg]

You guessed it right.

All that fiddling around I've done with vehicle rules has paid off!

A lot of the time I can guess why Mecha does things the way it does, as I' know what some of the hurdles are. BTW, I wish I had seen your bit about applying maneuver modifiers according to multiples of MOV, it would have saved me a lot of time. I did something similar, but after a year or so.

Some super-robot shows, most Kaiju/Gojira movies and Pacific Rim use measurements that could not possibly work in real life.

Yeah, but then most mecha wouldn't work in real life. So we make allowances for the genre. I've been working with the idea of just keeping the +8 per doubling scale used in BRP at the character SIZ range. It helps to keep the SIZes down, the numbers playable, and keeps the relationship between SIZ values and STR values consistent. It really helps to keep stuff form a particular setting workable with other things from the same setting. For example, King Ghidorah is usually listed as being about 50% heavier than Gojira. That's a huge difference with a linear SIZ scale, but only +4 with the doubling method. To help with the hit points I've been thinking of adding a "soak" or "intrinsic armor" stat. The idea being that very large craft gain some immunity to small arms just from the virtual of their size. For instance, during WWI British warplanes would fire machineguns at German Zeppelins with little effect- even when using incendiary rounds! While the machineguns left a lot of bullet holes in the Zepplins, and caused some gas leakage, the Zeps were so big that the damage was usually not serious.

It is interesting to note that when Super Robots team up together these measurements are negated: Getter Robot G is supposed to be 50m tall, that is more than twice as much as Great Mazinger, yet they are roughly the same size when pictured together. This is why I suggested to avoid going beyond SIZ class 3. A Jaeger might be represented with a SIZ Class 4 or 5, but not more.

Yes, lots of stuff is "negated" on those crossover movies. The various robots are not supposed to be at the same power level, either. According to Go Nagai, Grendizer is supposed to completely outclass the others, which is one of the reasons why Koji Kabuto is sidekick and support character in UFO Gendizer. If the robots were about equal then Mazinger Z could have been or help against the Vegans.

[Atgxtg]

One of the best technical sources for data about mecha is http://www.mahq.net/. Most Real Robot series are there.

Ooh, thanks for the link. I've been wanting stats for MOSPEDIA for some time.

[Atgxtg]

Given that sometimes The Big Guy is taller than Tokyo Tower and sometimes -- well, sometimes he isn't -- that must have been an interesting exercise.

Not very much so, at least for the SIZ stat. As I said, I got a table that extends the doubling progression, so it was mostly a case of looking up the mass score (20,000 tons, 50,000 tons, or 70,000 tons depending on which Goji I was statting up), on the modfied SIZ table, or, to be more accurate, plugging the mass into a spreadsheet that does the math for me.

The interesting bit was in tweaking the damages and armor stats to reflect how much punishment the kaiju can soak in the movies. I think I ended up with an average of about 4 AP per D of damage bonus, and often higher. That way a couple of kaiju can take some hits from each other without getting torn to shreds.

Another interesting thing is although BRP Mecha uses some different values and methods, I think most of my Kaiju stuff could convert over to BRP Mecca fairly easily. Since Mecha bases AP on SIZ class and I based AP on db the relative AP scores of Kaiju should convert over reasonably well.

[Michael Hopcroft]

How would you model a "mecha fantasy romance" series like Vision of Escaflowne (heavens, that dates me) where the mecha are powered by something unknown and indefinable?

Fudge and experiment, that is the only way. Just assign data you think appropriate, and then check whether it would be a match for an appropriate real world vehicle. That is the reason I put in so many real vehicles: to give you benchmarks to compare your Mecha with.

For instance:

1. Code Geass Knightmare: can beat tanks and helicopters, but they are still a match for it

2. Gundam-sized Real Robot: obliterates tanks, planes and choppers with little effort

3. Super-robot/Kaiju: able to take out battleships

The problem in Escaflowne is that since the mecha only really fight each other, there are no other weapon systems to measure against. Sure. for a guy to hit one with a sword is pretty much useless, and its sword effortlessly turns humans into ground chuck (we never see it do that, but it can penetrate mecha armor so we assume it could) but we really don't have much else to compare with. Mecha in Escaflowne don't have guns or energy weapons because they don't exist in that world -- the ones with invisibility and an actual ranged weapon are nigh-invincible and utterly terrifying.

Another example of a fantasy series with mecha is the classic CLAMP series Magic Knight Rayearth. Again, the mecha in that series only fight other mecha, and only a few exist. They are also sentient and mentally bound to their pilots, who can control them essentially by thinking about what they want them to do (no physical controls required).

[Atgxtg]

The problem in Escaflowne is that since the mecha only really fight each other, there are no other weapon systems to measure against. Sure. for a guy to hit one with a sword is pretty much useless, and its sword effortlessly turns humans into ground chuck (we never see it do that, but it can penetrate mecha armor so we assume it could) but we really don't have much else to compare with. Mecha in Escaflowne don't have guns or energy weapons because they don't exist in that world -- the ones with invisibility and an actual ranged weapon are nigh-invincible and utterly terrifying.

Another example of a fantasy series with mecha is the classic CLAMP series Magic Knight Rayearth. Again, the mecha in that series only fight other mecha, and only a few exist. They are also sentient and mentally bound to their pilots, who can control them essentially by thinking about what they want them to do (no physical controls required).

Then it actually easier to writeup. All you need is is make sure the mecha stats are "correct" for the setting. In other words, they just need stats that let them do what they can do in the series. It doesn't matter is theier POW score is low or high compared to other series.

If you are in doubt, just go with POW scores similar to the POW given to the sample mecha in the BRP core book.

[RosenMcStern]

Then it actually easier to writeup. All you need is is make sure the mecha stats are "correct" for the setting. In other words, they just need stats that let them do what they can do in the series. It doesn't matter is theier POW score is low or high compared to other series.

This is exactly how you are supposed to use BRP Mecha.

And the reason why there is no point buy mech construction system.

[Stoatbringer]

Okay, right up my alley, my degree's in electronics!

Energy is measured in a unit called the watt. Now the watt is a fairly small unit of energy (about the amount it takes to heat up one cubic centimeter of water by 1 degree C, each second). So generators, and powerplants usually put out many, many watts. Since the watt is a metric term, one thousand watts is referred to as a kilowatt (kW), and a million watts is called a megatwatt (MW). So that is what BRP Mecha is asking for.

I hope you mean megawatt. A "megatwatt" is probably what female kaiju have!

[Atgxtg]

This is exactly how you are supposed to use BRP Mecha.

I figured as much. The real world numbers and relationships are, IMO, mostly for series that take place in the "real world". But a fantasy series that takes place in it own setting only needs to be internally consistent.

And the reason why there is no point buy mech construction system.

Yeah. I figured that. This way we can just write up stuff that fits the setting we are using. With a point buy method, we could run into problems if a series uses tech that is more powerful or less than the default in BRP Mecha. If some series gives a man-sized battlesuit a full powered undulation cannon or some such, the whole point buy thing would implode on us. I got a vehicle system in the works for the Doctor Who RPG and ran into that problem. If the Dalek mothership has "X" on the show, then it should be able to have "X" in the game.

[Canis latrans popus]

The problem in Escaflowne is that since the mecha only really fight each other, there are no other weapon systems to measure against. Sure. for a guy to hit one with a sword is pretty much useless, and its sword effortlessly turns humans into ground chuck (we never see it do that, but it can penetrate mecha armor so we assume it could) but we really don't have much else to compare with. Mecha in Escaflowne don't have guns or energy weapons because they don't exist in that world -- the ones with invisibility and an actual ranged weapon are nigh-invincible and utterly terrifying.

Another example of a fantasy series with mecha is the classic CLAMP series Magic Knight Rayearth. Again, the mecha in that series only fight other mecha, and only a few exist. They are also sentient and mentally bound to their pilots, who can control them essentially by thinking about what they want them to do (no physical controls required).

I would suggest picking some other series from which to copy the mecha from, and then juggled the numbers.

If you're stuck, I was using VF-1s as ancient mecha in my Pendragon game. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0RgpTvR3o_9S0toTU1PSDF6Tk0&usp=sharing

The only problem, and it's a minor one, is I was running them using Pendragon stats, but it shouldn't be too hard to take the base stats and rederive the armor and damage bonuses for the mecha.

[Jeffrywith1e]

BRP Mecha seems to be unavailable now. Even PDF. Is that correct?

 

Disregard. I found the answer. 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Jeffrywith1e
question answered

[seneschal]

I wanted to love BRP Mecha but it just didn't work for me.  It was "make it up as you go" where I needed consistent game mechanics to hang my Science Police helmet on.  I tried several times to write-up a sample machine and just couldn't do it following the instructions.

[RosenMcStern]

Was it a problem in the mecha building rules or in the rules used to run the game?

[seneschal]

I never got past the mecha building rules.  I was supposed to look up stats online for my favorite anime robot (partial if they were there at all) then guess at the power output in megawatts for a pretend, nonexistent technology and base my construction from there.  It would be like the Traveller starship rules saying, “Hunt down the specs for the Enterprise or Doctor Zarkov’s rocketship and wing it from there.”

[RosenMcStern]

Noted. In fact, a detailed example using an original setting could have helped. The Exodus scenario provided some clues, but it was a bit short and did not really provide ideas about the underlying technology. Users of the book were supposed to have access to fan materials about the series they intended to portrait, but there was little or no support for creating an original mecha setting.

I think I was too afraid of straitjacketing people who already had an idea of what they wanted to do into artificial limits, and forgot that there are also those without a clear idea, who might get lost if they must do everything from scratch.

[seneschal]

Thing is, you need the straitjacket to provide the structure needed to makes a concept gameable.  You can always loosen the stays or cut them if necessary.  To return to my starship analogy, Traveller rules don’t model all sci-fi franchises well, and no franchise is more loosey goosey than Lost In Space.  However, because there are specific rules I can come up with a reasonable facsimile of the Jupiter 2 even if I have to bend them somewhat.

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, seneschal said:

I never got past the mecha building rules.  I was supposed to look up stats online for my favorite anime robot (partial if they were there at all) then guess at the power output in megawatts for a pretend, nonexistent technology and base my construction from there.

I was doing something like that. I put Thrust (STR) and Power  (POW)on a table the way mass is for SIZ. The idea was to be able to stat up everything on the same scale, as oppose to adapting the scale to pick a particular setting. 

[seneschal]

I guess my brain doesn’t work that way.  I need something more like “10 build points gives you X units of energy, which will power Y devices” (depending on how much juice they require).  I don’t want Aftermath! levels of complexity, but I do need a consistent system to work with.

Edited August 28, 2018 by seneschal

[seneschal]

So, Voltron, Gigantor and Raydeen walk into a bar and ... it collapses.

(Because, you know, they’re giant robots.)

I’ll just get my coat ....

[RosenMcStern]

"Tactical officer, divert all main power to the Motion Wave Gun, and aim it at Seneschal..."

[seneschal]

“Aye-yi-yiiii!  Zordon, we need Macro-Mondo-Megazord power NOW!”

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, RosenMcStern said:

"Tactical officer, divert all main power to the Motion Wave Gun, and aim it at Seneschal..."

Oh great, there goes the Moon.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Are there any plans for either a revised version of this book or one of more other books that deal with mecha in d100 games?

I imagine there are other subsystems in various BRP titles that can be adapted to the task of building giant robots (because Chicks Dig Giant Robots!).

[RosenMcStern]

Mecha is scheduled for reappearance as a Revolution D100 book. We do not have a scheduled date, though, as we have realised that adapting it will require more work than initially thought.

[Thot]

I just hope they make a fully fleshed-out setting an essential part of the new book, because with such things, examples work better than rules.