Trying to reconcile with fantasy

[Dyvim Matt]

Hi all,

I used to really like medieval fantasy, but I guess I'm burnt-out now. (I still really like sword-and-sorcery, though*.) I would love to run a fantasy campaign for a few of my friends who have not roleplayed in a long while, but I just can't get myself to do it. I'm just tired of the same old elves, wizards, dragons, etc. My options so far include:

a) Running a (Mongoose) RQ Elric game because I find it really cool, but most of my players don't really care about the setting; or

Running a (BRP or MRQ) historical campaign with some magic blended in; or

c) Not doing it and playing something else with them. (Probably Shadowrun.)

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could maybe "reinvent" the Fantasy genre, or give it some new twist to revitalise it? Have you ever been a "Tolkien burn-out" ? If so, how did you "cope with it" ? If not, what do you like most about this specific genre?

Just so you know, the games I ran in the past years are mostly Mage: the Ascension as well as a short MRQ Elric campaign last year and a fun Shadowrun one-shot a few months ago. Also, I'm not up to date at all when it comes to new authors, new styles, etc.

*I may be wrong, but I see Fantasy as what Tolkien and C.S. Lewis did, and Sword and Sorcery as more along the lines of Elric, Conan, etc. I much prefer Sword and Sorcery, but there's always at least one player who insists on playing yet another cute, ethical, emotional "High Elf"... Why not some hot Melnibonéan love?!?

[gevrin]

Maybe run a mediaeval S&S game (along the lines of Jirel of Joiry). High Med setting, S&S action and ambience.

Maybe BRP-ise the Midnight setting (or adapt Tolkien) - the setting where Sauron (or his analogue) won and the heroes are survivors trying to maintain their values in a near post-apocalypse world.

Maybe make a mediaeval high fantasy adaptation of something like "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies", a different post-apoc take on high fantasy (similar to EABA's Dark Millenium).

Maybe rewrite Tolkien so the "noble" elves decided that the fate of ME couldn't be left in the hands of humans and their diminuitive allies and took over, imposing high values but stultifying society and effectively restricting the freedom and individuality, possibly leading to an uneasy alliance of the other free peoples and goblin, easterling or southron groups. Maybe Sauron or Saruman would help but at what price?

Just interesting thoughts. >:->

Cheers

Dave

[Atgxtg]

Generally speaking, if you want to change the type of fantasy game you want to run, you need to make the setting different from the standard fantasy settings you've used in the past.

One method you can use to get the style of play you want is to remove the "high fantasy" elements from your setting. If there are no elves, dwarves, and orcs around, you are less likely to end up with a campaign that feels like LOTR. Likewise you can change the style of the game by drawing on something other than a taolkensique psedo-Europe for the various contries and cultures.

Another possibility would be to based you campaign on some historical setting. A historic medieval setting is very different from the standard High Fantasy setting. You could drop the fantasy elements, or retain them, but keep then true to the setting. Norse Alfar, or Celtic Sidhe are both "elves" but different from the typical high fantasy elf.

One key factor is to make sure to replace things you remove with something else that can keep the setting interesting. This doesn't have to be new fantasy races, but could mean adding more detail to the human cultures in you setting to make them more colorful and interesting. You want to give the players something different to deal with, rather than just giving them less to deal with.

[cjbowser]

Hi all,

I used to really like medieval fantasy, but I guess I'm burnt-out now. (I still really like sword-and-sorcery, though*.) I would love to run a fantasy campaign for a few of my friends who have not roleplayed in a long while, but I just can't get myself to do it.

If you're truly burned out on fantasy, and can't get psyched to run a campaign, that will show through to your players. If you're not having fun, they probably won't have fun either.

I'm just tired of the same old elves, wizards, dragons, etc. My options so far include:

a) Running a (Mongoose) RQ Elric game because I find it really cool, but most of my players don't really care about the setting; or

Running a (BRP or MRQ) historical campaign with some magic blended in; or

c) Not doing it and playing something else with them. (Probably Shadowrun.)

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could maybe "reinvent" the Fantasy genre, or give it some new twist to revitalise it?

Here's an interesting take on fantasy, Ashes to Ashes. This setting might be similar to how you define sword and sorcery, but elves, dwarves, and halflings are present. They aren't all playable, but they are there.

For the historical setting, look no further than Stupor Mundi or Rome. My all time favorite blending of fantasy and historical, Mythic Russia doesn't use BRP, but it can be converted.

Have you ever been a "Tolkien burn-out" ? If so, how did you "cope with it" ? If not, what do you like most about this specific genre?

I'm not a huge fan of traditional fantasy, I do like to read traditional fantasy books but have always been more intrigued by low magic settings. Burnout can happen with anything though. Right now, I'm burned out on horror. When I get burned out on any setting I take time off. I go read and play other settings. After a while, I start wanting to return to the genre I was burned out in.

*I may be wrong, but I see Fantasy as what Tolkien and C.S. Lewis did,

I even see Tolkien and Lewis as writing in different sub-genres, but that's probably academic.

and Sword and Sorcery as more along the lines of Elric, Conan, etc.

That's how I see tend to define Sword and Sorcery as well. Have you checked out Barbarians of Lemuria? There's a two-fisted cat on here who loves the game. I haven't looked at it yet myself, although I do own it.

I much prefer Sword and Sorcery, but there's always at least one player who insists on playing yet another cute, ethical, emotional "High Elf"... Why not some hot Melnibonéan love?!?

Oh God! It's full of white...:thumb:

Edited June 11, 2009 by cjbowser

[Vorax Transtellaris]

I'm not exactly keen on high fantasy and I really hate elves/elfs and hobbits. I also find the usual pretentiousness that seems to be a trademark of the genre highly annoying. This pretentiousness, in my experience, contrasts strongly with the sense of 'humor' some players tend to develop, which is downright silly. A notable example: a dwarf drowning because he refused to take off his armour...

Now I don't mind silly, but it just doesn't fit with the pretentiousness, unless the pretentiousness is also taken lightly.

Therefore, since the genre obviously is difficult to take seriously, as a player, I do enjoy totally over-the-top fantasy settings such as Warhammer FRP - a friend of mine once referred to it as the Heavy Metal of Fantasy Roleplaying .

As a GM I stay clear of the genre. There's already too much high fantasy gaming going on, to my taste. I don't want to contribute to that.

Though I had a lot of fun playing Shadowrun, it got boring as soon as the GM started taking things too seriously, making everything dark and ominous. I guess the fact that there's dwarves and trolls running around and dragons leading multinational corporations for me implies that trying to make things seem dark and ominous at the same time conflicts heavily with the suspension of disbelief.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Vorax Transtellaris

[Dyvim Matt]

If you're truly burned out on fantasy, and can't get psyched to run a campaign, that will show through to your players. If you're not having fun, they probably won't have fun either.

A very, very, VERY good point, of course. This is the main purpose for this thread. I don't mind doing medieval-Europe-style campaigns, since I really like medieval European history. I'm really just looking for ways to accomodate my friends' wishes for a Fantasy campaign while still enjoying myself in the process.

You can all keep sending suggestions by the way. I'm shamelessly stealing everything on this thread so far. Good stuff all around!

[neorxnawang]

If you're truly burned out on fantasy, and can't get psyched to run a campaign, that will show through to your players. If you're not having fun, they probably won't have fun either.

Here's an interesting take on fantasy, Ashes to Ashes. This setting might be similar to how you define sword and sorcery, but elves, dwarves, and halflings are present. They aren't all playable, but they are there.

For the historical setting, look no further than Stupor Mundi or Rome. My all time favorite blending of fantasy and historical, Mythic Russia doesn't use BRP, but it can be converted.

I'm not a huge fan of traditional fantasy, I do like to read traditional fantasy books but have always been more intrigued by low magic settings. Burnout can happen with anything though. Right now, I'm burned out on horror. When I get burned out on any setting I take time off. I go read and play other settings. After a while, I start wanting to return to the genre I was burned out in.

I even see Tolkien and Lewis as writing in different sub-genres, but that's probably academic.

That's how I see tend to define Sword and Sorcery as well. Have you checked out Barbarians of Lemuria? There's a two-fisted cat on here who loves the game. I haven't looked at it yet myself, although I do own it.

Oh God! It's full of white...:thumb:

And, no Elf PCs allowed in Ashes, to Ashes. And whether any even survived the Great, Earth-Shattering Kaboom is doubtful.

Barbarians of Lemuria gets the Conan genre right. :thumb:

[cjbowser]

And, no Elf PCs allowed in Ashes, to Ashes. And whether any even survived the Great, Earth-Shattering Kaboom is doubtful.

Barbarians of Lemuria gets the Conan genre right. :thumb:

Spoilers for Ashes to Ashes. Don't highlight the quote below if you don't want to read it.

What about the dozen or so living around the Starwell?

[Trifletraxor]

Try mythical/historical earth if you are tired of the traditional fantasy. Rome is an excellent supplement, with a campaign book coming for it later (hopefully!). Ashes to Ashes is a very different sort of fantasy, without anything tolkienesque about it, so that could do the trick too!

SGL.

[Thalaba]

You can all keep sending suggestions by the way. I'm shamelessly stealing everything on this thread so far. Good stuff all around!

I'm another one who's had enough of the tired old elf/dwarf/hafling/orc cliches. But I do run a fantasy game which my players and I all enjoy.

Technologically it's Bronze Age. Setting wise it's a fantasy world with analogues to many of our own world locations, including a large desert filled with ruins, civilizations hugging rivers, Ziggurat-like temples, all manner of beast men and minor demons, desert whirlwinds which hunt human souls, red sandstorms, slavers, chariots, nomads, tribesmen and ritual combats. In our game the Gods have all left and been replaced by assorted spirits, demons, and a variety of sorcerors (backshis, sahhars, and mystics) and idolators.

It is inspired by Conan, Lieber, 1001 Nights, Marco Polo, Sumerian myth, and more. It's pretty far from mainstream fantasy, and a lot of fun. When my players encounter a new monster, they don't say "Oh, look it's a mummy - get out your torches" - they say "Spirit Mother, what new deviltry is this!?". All players are human, but the cultures are quite distinct, so there is no need for non-human races.

Trust me, you can have a blast with non-traditional fantasy.

Thalaba

[neorxnawang]

Spoilers for Ashes to Ashes. Don't highlight the quote below if you don't want to read it.

We don't talk about them. Need to know only basis. :innocent: Nothing to see here, move along.....

[frogspawner]

Have you ever been a "Tolkien burn-out" ? If so, how did you "cope with it" ?

How about a "Twisted Tolkien" campaign? You're welcome to try an idea I had, when watching the LotR films: What if Elrond had got hold of The Ring when Sauron was (physically) slain? He'd have just chucked it straight in the Cracks of Doom, like he told Isildur, and that would've been that, right? Wrong! IMHO, the power of The Ring should stop anyone being able to do that. So Elrond and his kin would be slowly corrupted over the millenia...

Do the possibilities of that fire your imagination at all? I see the Dark Vale of Rivendell populated by monstrous wraith-elves with glowing green eyes, centre of an empire of enslaved sub-races (e.g. gollum-like twisted hobbits), amid shattered remnants of once-allied-then-betrayed human/elven nations, with black magic abounding, Sauron's jealous shade inspiring weird cults... and somewhere Isildur's ghost saying to an old man "I was there Gandalf, three thousand years ago, when the strength of elves failed...".

Edited June 11, 2009 by frogspawner

[Dyvim Matt]

@ Frogspawner:

That is so cool! You've managed the (almost) impossible: giving me a reason to read LOTR again... just to take notes on what gets turned on its head! I'll need your complete contact information so I can ship you the internet you just won. Thanks!

[frogspawner]

Glad to be of service! :cool:

[Kairos]

If you want a different fantasy feel, try Pendragon or BRP-ified version of Pendragon. The Great Pendragon campaign alone could keep you interested for months.

I've also been re-reading the THIEVES' WORLD stories. No elves there. Grim, gritty, urban fantasy with tons of possibilities. Green Ronin released a few books for the d20 system which you could adapt to BRP (assuming you can't find the old Chaosium books). They're on clearance now, too, I think.

But, of course, look no further than BRP Rome. :thumb:

[seneschal]

Others have suggested "historical" fantasy ... but what about running fantasy in the modern day? Lewis himself sort of did this in "Out of the Silent Planet" and "That Hideous Strength." "Courtney Cumrin and the Night Things" does it from a different perspective. Maybe Sauron, et. al., didn't just go away at the end of the Fourth, Fifth, or Eleventy-Hundreth Age. Maybe there are elves, dwarves, goblins, and ring-wraiths among us now, keeping a low profile and trying to blend in. Or maybe they're trying to get elected to high office or running major corporations. Maybe something like the short-lived "Neverwhere" TV series. You'd have to set your tone and fantasy elements just right to prevent it from becoming a Delta Green, Shadowrun, or X-Files campaign.

One scenario I always wanted to throw at my pulp or modern adventurers was "Angmar and Co." The PCs stumble across a ring (box of Crackerjacks? second hand shop?) and suddenly they're pursued by Men In Black types whose broad-brimmed hats conceal their features. And there's no helpful Gandalf or Library of Gondor to explain things for them. I image the modern-day Gollum as a sort of Peter Lorrie type a la "The Maltese Falcon." "You will please put your hands above your head, my preciousssss, while we search you."

[Simlasa]

I've never been a huge fan of 'Tolkienesque Eurofantasy'... and going to Renaissance Fairs really gets on my nerves (but friends still try to drag me there).

A while back I ran a couple of one-shots set in a Napoleonic fantasy setting... ala The Brothers Grimm... with the Napoleonic wars in the background... and the Black Forest full of the very real, very nasty, critters from the local folklore. There are elves, but they are small, and not very friendly.

I always wanted to base a short campaign around GWAR's necromythology... but I could never come up with anything that wasn't pretty much all battle all the time.

A setting like the one for Glen Cook's 'Black Company' stories would be familiar enough to play well, but not full of the same old standards.

Ravenloft, with modifications, always looked fun as well.

[dragonewt]

How about a "Twisted Tolkien" campaign?

"Bored of the Rings", anyone?

For more information: Bored of the Rings - Wikipedia

[PK Games]

Fortunately you play BRP games, so there you go.

Set your players up on a standard high fantasy game. Run a straight adventure or two. Then break out the other BRP books.

Take your players through a fantasy variation of Masks of Nyarlothotep (please forgive me great one for mispelling your unholy name).

Then revise some Superworld adventures, or other BRP staples.

I for one think a dark high fantasy setting where the players must prevent Cthulhu from aligning the stars and unending the world would be fantastic. Especially if it was done on proto-earth and was the "un"official explanation why Cthlhu lies sleeping underwater.

While I like Cthulhu Dark Ages, the trick is to mix it so the players dont know they are actually playing Cthulhu with swords. So have them make up standard fantasy characters, they dont need to know they have sanity points and what not.

[vagabond]

Use the Mongoose RQ Elric rules and grab Green Ronin's generic

Freeport setting. Figure out how to use the BRP/RQ rules, and you

have some pretty good atypical fantasy/horror/pirate stuff.

-V

[mikmo]

For something completely different:

Try Tekumel with Sandy Petersen´s RQ-conversion:

But be warned, it takes some time and effort to beat the learning curve, but it is worth it,

Mikmo

[Dyvim Matt]

Wow, lots of stuff to work with here. Thank you all!

I'm not sure yet what I'll do with all of this but the suggestions are pretty good!

Again, thanks!

[TRose]

Few things I have tried.

First is a low magic world where magic did exist but took twice the power and 3 times as long to cast any spell and some spells simply did not exist.

Or you can try to run a Musket and magic campaign. I been toying with running a game set in the 15 century New world where the player would play conquistadors but the Native American would have real magic to counter the European steel and gunpowder.

[cjbowser]

Or you can try to run a Musket and magic campaign. I been toying with running a game set in the 15 century New world where the player would play conquistadors but the Native American would have real magic to counter the European steel and gunpowder.

That's intriguing. Would you allow the conquistadors to be backed up by Jesuit magic? Or perhaps magic stolen from the Muslims during the Reconquista and reapportioned for the Spaniards' use? Think of all the wonderful spells that might be buried in Al-Hambra or Corduba. The Bayt al-Hikma might have collected tons of works centuries earlier and as the Muslims spread, the works might have been dispersed. You could also have the "anti-magic" developed by Tomas de Torquemada when he was battling the "vile magic users" during the Inquisition.

Edited June 13, 2009 by cjbowser

[Chaot]

I'll second Freeport. I've wanted to run a BRP Freeport game for awhile now. I'd actually strip out the demi-humans. It seems to make the Serpent Men a bit more ominous (and I don't need dwarves and elves and halflings and whatever in EVERY SINGLE fantasy game).

I'd also strip out all those polymorph self spells and substitute CoC's Consume Likeness.

I briefly ran a few games set in Nehwon. Lankhmar might fit what you're looking for. It definitely has a strong fantasy feel, but it's not the generic fantasy that you see in a lot of other settings.

A bit of a suggestion that's kinda out there. Have you looked at Mystara? It can be played serious or it can be a beer and pretzels setting, depending on your inclination. Downside is, there's a lot of material for it and you have to decide what to throw out.