The Lost Runequest

[Nick Brooke]

On 3/1/2020 at 1:13 PM, David Scott said:

The version floating around has clearly been tarted up and produced much later (2000s?).

the reality (the internet in1992 wasn't sophisticated), I had raw text files in individual emails and never the whole thing in one go - others might have:

No, that prettied-up version existed in the mid-nineties. I still have my copy.

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

No, that prettied-up version existed in the mid-nineties. I still have my copy.

I've just dug out my copy. Looks like I got it 1994 (likely at Convulsion). I didn't realise I had a play testing credit in it (doh). I couldn't remember having it until you mentioned yours.

The version floating round is a scan as it contains all kind of rubbish not present in the original (added unrelated colour images) and is missing the appendices. It's dated 2003.

Edited March 4, 2020 by David Scott

[deleriad]

Just dug my copy off the shelf. Think I also got it at Convulsion. It's one with the blank Gamesmastering chapter.

I remember my group going back, starting to make characters and discussing what to play with them but it just seemed to go on and on. Looking back at it now, the authors seem to have decided that the main problem RQ3 had was that it wasn't detailed enough.

[Rick Meints]

9 hours ago, Richard S. said:

One last question: what's Chaosium's stance on the versions of the playtest rules floating around the internet?

I agree with Mob's response as per above, and also want to expand on it. The work is copyrighted by the authors, and also contains IP owned by Moon Design Publications, which has licensed its IP to Chaosium. The Playtest Rules should not be distributed by anyone, via electronic or other means without the permission of Chaosium AND the authors. While we cannot speak for the authors, Chaosium does not give permission to distribute the material here or anywhere else, even if done for free.

[g33k]

On 2/29/2020 at 2:55 PM, Richard S. said:

... Are there any elements that showed up in later editions, up to and especially RQG?

I'm particularly interested in this question.

Is anyone aware of any new-to-RQ elements/mechanics/etc in that old draft that seemed to inspire or be translated-forward into any other, later, editions of RQ?

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

I'm particularly interested in this question.

Is anyone aware of any new-to-RQ elements/mechanics/etc in that old draft that seemed to inspire or be translated-forward into any other, later, editions of RQ?

No. Although I was familiar with the draft rules (and was a playtester back in the 1990s), it was not something we consulted or reviewed except to go over how it was wrong from Greg's perspective.

[David Scott]

9 hours ago, g33k said:

Is anyone aware of any new-to-RQ elements/mechanics/etc in that old draft that seemed to inspire or be translated-forward into any other, later, editions of RQ?

Tales of the Reaching Moon said in issue 8 (1992):

Quote

It's on it's way, probably scheduled somewhere around Strangers in Prax. This set will be sort of a RQ3.1 rather than a new rules system. There will be some majoI: differences though. Firstly, it will be one hardback book rather than a box, and secondly all the RQ Earth references will be replaced with Gloranthan ones. Currently, the playtesters are concenttating on changes to the Fatigue. Spirit Combat. Sorcery and Character generation rules.

Ive just looked through it and would say that calling it RQ IV is rather erroneous as it was just RQ3 updated fully with Glorantha, so RQ3.1 is a fair description. The only real difference was character generation that was points based. There's nothing you would see that would be new to RQ or BRP.

[PhilHibbs]

On 2/29/2020 at 10:55 PM, Richard S. said:

From what I've heard, there was another edition of Runequest under development while RQ3 was still in sway, called Runequest: Adventures in Glorantha... Are there any elements that showed up in later editions, up to and especially RQG?

Can someone remind me, was this the version that had skill difficulty ratings that affected the increase rolls? I had a copy many years ago and converted my RQ3 game to it, but I don't have a digital copy any more and can't find any of my printouts. I did a character sheet for it in CorelDraw that I haven't got the file for any more either (not that the file would be usable by anything, probably)...

[Lordabdul]

8 hours ago, David Scott said:

The only real difference was character generation that was points based.

It doesn't look point-based to me? (at least not in the version I have)  There's an option to spend 80 points in the stats instead of rolling D6's (I'm expecting alternate methods like this to appear in the upcoming RQG GM Guide), but for skills you still pick an occupation and get your skill scores from the list, so I wouldn't say "point-based", really. The good thing though was that it acknowledged 5 power-levels for character creation (novice, trained, skilled, expert, master), which lets people play in various flavours of campaigns, as opposed to, say, RQG, where you can only play characters of a certain expertise.

Frankly, having more of a point-based character creation system would make me enjoy RQG character creation so much more... if we had a certain number of points to spend in occupation skills, as opposed to "fixed" occupation skill scores, it would not only remove some of the inconsistencies/imbalance between occupations, but it would also make it a bit easier to create novice or expert characters depending on the campaign. CoC does go a step further in that sense.

(to be clear, I reserve the "point-based character creation" label for games where the whole character sheet is allocated based on one point pool like HERO/GURPS/etc... you might have another definition of the term)

Edited March 5, 2020 by lordabdul

[g33k]

TYVM Jeff (and others of those playtesters & draft-owners) who have responded with their info!

[Ian Absentia]

On 3/3/2020 at 2:04 PM, Richard S. said:

Do you know why he didn't approve it?

For those with an interest, it may be worthwhile to look up some of Greg's public comments on the release of Hero Wars (2000) and HeroQuest (2003) for a more positive take on the backdrop to the story, how he wanted to see Glorantha portrayed in game mechanics.  Go straight to the preface/foreword of either edition, and there are several interviews still available online.  It doesn't speak to what he disliked about the earlier proposed rules draft, but it does underscore features that we see making a strong influence on the current iteration of the rules in RQG.

!i!

[Edit: It's also highly instructive to look at King Arthur Pendragon, his other work of love, in which you can also see a strong influence on RQG.]

Edited March 5, 2020 by Ian Absentia

[g33k]

I have a memory -- which may be erroneous -- that Greg found the "more detail / more crunch" elements of the draft rules to be exactly the wrong direction.

If that was the ONLY issue he had, I'd have expected it to result in a new draft; not abandoning the project.

 

[SDLeary]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

I have a memory -- which may be erroneous -- that Greg found the "more detail / more crunch" elements of the draft rules to be exactly the wrong direction.

If that was the ONLY issue he had, I'd have expected it to result in a new draft; not abandoning the project.

 

True, but combine the issue of the rules, with the issues with AH, and cancelling the project becomes more understandable. 

SDLeary

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, SDLeary said:

True, but combine the issue of the rules, with the issues with AH, and cancelling the project becomes more understandable.

And add into that the protection of Greg's Gloranthan IP.

[Rick Meints]

19 hours ago, g33k said:

I have a memory -- which may be erroneous -- that Greg found the "more detail / more crunch" elements of the draft rules to be exactly the wrong direction.

If that was the ONLY issue he had, I'd have expected it to result in a new draft; not abandoning the project.

Greg really didn't want to work with Avalon Hill any more. That's the ultimate reason he didn't want to have a Gloranthan based RQ game done by Avalon Hill.