A stupid question

[Atgxtg]

8 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I don't know if it's an inferior experience, but it's probably a similar experience to sitting at a table at a gaming convention.

I doubt it. I've run at Cons, and even when I did get paid to run, I wanted to run, so I was vested in things and tried to engage the players. 

8 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Maybe slightly better, because you know everybody at the table except the (hired) GM, compared to the gaming convention where you maybe only know the one friend you brought along (if any). I don't think anybody ever looked down on playing at conventions. So you can think about it as paying for a convention ticket, but the convention comes to your house, sort of.

I think the key thing at Cons is that the people there want to be there. Even the "hired guns" want to be there. If they just wanted a paycheck they could be off doing something else, which probably took less time, work and paid more money. What hurts the pro GM is that the pay per time and effort put into the game is probably below minimum wage level in most places. It's not like a job where you show up and go to work, a GM probably has to put more time into writing and prepping the adventure than running. Plus additional time afterwards updating things-especially if running a campaign. 

[Zit]

I don't think the OP is only about GM's, but about gamers. Would be like professional game testers including GMs and players. Am I wrong ?

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, Zit said:

I don't think the OP is only about GM's, but about gamers.

I think the OP was just making a funny comment about all the interesting stuff Chaosium has in the pipeline for the next couple years, and totally didn't intend to start a serious discussion about how the hobby is changing in terms of pro-players/GMs

Edited March 5, 2020 by lordabdul

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I doubt it. I've run at Cons, and even when I did get paid to run, I wanted to run, so I was vested in things and tried to engage the players. 

So getting paid to do something means you don't really want to do that thing anymore? Wow, that's, like, a super bleak vision of life.

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

What hurts the pro GM is that the pay per time and effort put into the game is probably below minimum wage level in most places.

Doing it for free doesn't hurt the GM, but doing it for not enough money does hurt them? I don't follow the logic. I have no idea what pro GM rates are but I assume most pro GMs are not doing it as a full time job, and instead do it as a side gig, the same way some people, say, play in bands and still get (poorly) paid gigs in bars and clubs.

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

So getting paid to do something means you don't really want to do that thing anymore?

No but it can turn it from something you want to do, to something you have to do. Note that I didn't say that it does turn it, but that it can. 

This isn't unique to paid GMs either. There are times when I would rather do something other than prep for my game, and it becomes work. That's part of being a GM, and hopefully is worth it when I sit down to play.

Quote

Wow, that's, like, a super bleak vision of life.

You think that's bad read Machiavelli. 

But to clarify my previous point, it's not that a paid GM doesn't want to game, only that it does open the possibility of someone only GMing for the money. Ised to work as a hospital and, while I hate to think it, there were some Doctors there who looked at patients as another paycheck. In fact one Surgeon actually waked out of the operating room to go cash his paycheck.  So yeah, that kind of thing does happen. Now there were some really committed doctors there too, but a lot of them were just punching the clock.

 

Quote

Doing it for free doesn't hurt the GM, but doing it for not enough money does hurt them? I don't follow the logic.

Doing it for free is doing it as a hobby. So the benefit is the actually enjoyment that comes from playing.

Doing it for money means the benefit is the payment received, and GMing doesn't pay well compared tot he time and effort invested.

Quote

I have no idea what pro GM rates are but I assume most pro GMs are not doing it as a full time job, and instead do it as a side gig, the same way some people, say, play in bands and still get (poorly) paid gigs in bars and clubs.

Yup, and I would also assume that most pro GMs also enjoy GMing, and that's why they do it. But turning any hobby into a paid position has its pitfalls. 

For instance, look at a lot of the computer games out there that are pay to win and imagine a hired GM implementing that!

Edited March 5, 2020 by Atgxtg

[Zit]

16 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I think the OP was just making a funny comment about all the interesting stuff Chaosium has in the pipeline for the next couple years, and totally didn't intend to start a serious discussion about how the hobby is changing in terms of pro-players/GMs

How disapointing. I was considering changing my job 😋

[Thaz]

As a matter of fact you could argue that I actually _am_ a semi pro GM come to think of it.

I'm certainly not earning a living from it. However I and my fellow GM's and Players at BwT write up the stuff we create for our in-house games, play test it some more and then either sell it to Chaosium or add our own art and layout and publish via Drive-thru on the Jonstown Compendium. This has funded purchase of rules books, other chaosium material and on at least one occasion for me groceries. If we valued our time at anywhere near minimum wage  we'd not be making a profit on the deal but hey... 

[Bill the barbarian]

 

3 hours ago, Thaz said:

As a matter of fact you could argue that I actually _am_ a semi pro GM come to think of it.

 

You are a running dog lackey of the  imperialist capitalist regime comrade, report to KGB for reprogramming immediately.

[Atgxtg]

42 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

You are a running dog lackey of the  imperialist capitalist regime comrade, report to KGB for reprogramming immediately.

Sorry comrade, KGB no more. But the Russian Mafia can hook you up with a new GM, for a price. 

[Thaz]

3 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

You are a running dog lackey of the  imperialist capitalist regime comrade, report to KGB for reprogramming immediately.

Dammit. Not AGAIN.

[seneschal]

5 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

 

You are a running dog lackey of the  imperialist capitalist regime comrade, report to KGB for reprogramming immediately.

Weren't there Ukrainian content farmers that could supply you with dossiers of material ?

[soltakss]

On 3/1/2020 at 4:36 PM, Pheres said:

According to Canne's Jeff's interview, a huge RPG game materials will be produce by Chaosium... But for us, standard rpg players, it will be very hard to play all the stuff in one single life! So do your team planned to make a new job: professional rpg gamers that can play all your stuff and get monthly income from just playing? Thanks to all of you Chaosium!

We play a weekly game of RQ. If each scenario takes 2 sessions to complete, that's 25 scenarios a year, maybe 20 to account for longer scenarios and missed sessions. Over a 5 year campaign, that is perhaps 100 scenarios. When I ran my last Gloranthan campaign, I used an equal split of Official Scenarios/Made up Scenarios/Player generated Scenarios and I ran out of the official ones after about 8 years, maybe after 10 years by using HeroQuest/Hero Wars scenarios.

[g33k]

10 minutes ago, soltakss said:

We play a weekly game of RQ.... I ran out of the official ones after about 8 years...

I hate you so hard right now.

Weekly RQ for 8+ years.

 

So, so much hatred seething in my bitter, envious heart.

 

 

(well , done, btw!)

 

[soltakss]

4 minutes ago, g33k said:

I hate you so hard right now.

Weekly RQ for 8+ years.

Sorry, a weekly game for 15 years.

One of the players also plays in a Wednesday game and has done so for the whole duration. That makes 2 weekly games for him for over 15 years. Hate him instead!