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BGB BRP vs Mythras

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A simple question with probably a non-simple answer - for those that have been exposed to both, why do you prefer BRP to Mythras?

I ask because, while I own several Mythras books, for real, I can’t get myself to run the things. I’m trying to suss out why. I’m not a fan of hit locations for sure (though M-Space helps mitigate some of that). I’m actively intimidated by the combat special effects (it isn’t the complexity; I’ve run Torchbearer and Burning Wheel with no issue). I’m okay with splitting skills into Professional and Standard. I sort of get the idea behind why combat styles. But on the whole...something’s off.

So, please help me figure it out. What’s holding me back? Why do I find the BGB a better read (despite the fact the book is literally all over the place)? I can say one thing: I MUCH prefer Wealth Levels and Status rolls to actually coin; if I ever run Mythras that’s getting ported right in.

Folks?

 

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You are asking US to explain to YOU why this preference of yours -- that you cannot explain -- exists?

Sorry man...

Even Lucy charged a nickel for that kind of stuff!

 

For myself -- I like Mythras reasonably well, but my group hard-nope'd out of Combat Effects.  I think that I'd enjoy Combat Effects, if I could get my group to play them; I certainly liked the idea.  I enjoyed reading the section, the examples, &c...

And (unlike you) I  love  hit-locations in  BRP/RQ (and thus Mythras).

 

To answer your question, I go back to looking at RQ2 v RQ3.  Some RQ2 players moved to RQ3 and stayed there, but lots of them just stayed with RQ2, and pack-ported RQ3 content.  Some players began with RQ3, and only looked at RQ2 because they heard about the great content (and were generally dissatisfied with the rules).  "Which is better" was a perennial topic of debate (resurfacing recently as the RQ3 tribe griped at the RQG dev's for the RQ2-chassis path they took).  I think a vague, yes-there-are-exceptions rule of thumb is, people tend to prefer the version they first got intensively into.

So I ask -- was BRP BGB your first?

Is Mythras just some flashy younger New Hotness that you've flirted with... but you keep going back to your First Love?

That'll be 5c, please!

 

Edited by g33k

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Ultimately, since they all stand the test of time pretty much the same, it is a matter of taste... ;) 
Also, how many supplements, how active is the editor, is a great factor. And the Mythras guys pump up a lots of stuff, compared to BRP being from 2014 with little in the way of recent supplement (they are all in for Cthulhu), so that's another reason!
(for example Mythras has free supplement for Firearm, Star wars... and some nice setting supplements)

After some test runs, I happen to prefer BGB/BRP at the moment too!  :D 

At any rate, here are the salient point that will entice new users, I believe...
- combat effect, they seem cool (after some practice I think I prefer the simpler approach of BRP)
- magic, it's RuneQuest 3 magic. with cheaper cost an some sort of caster level (intensity = %/10) that seems cool (I just don't like how OP all RuneQuests magic variants are, and BRP powers got my votes, though still struggling with elemental magic in BRP)
- combat style, that seems to make sense
- I can't remember why now, since I am set on the combat flow of BRP, but the action point economy of Mythras seemed cool to me when I first read it

 

Also, about your specific question, there are more crunchy rule in Mythras. BRP is quite straightforward... and all the special case can be found as an entry in "spot rules".

Edited by Lloyd Dupont

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2 hours ago, StanTheMan said:

A simple question with probably a non-simple answer - for those that have been exposed to both, why do you prefer BRP to Mythras?

I ask because, while I own several Mythras books, for real, I can’t get myself to run the things. I’m trying to suss out why. I’m not a fan of hit locations for sure (though M-Space helps mitigate some of that). I’m actively intimidated by the combat special effects (it isn’t the complexity; I’ve run Torchbearer and Burning Wheel with no issue). I’m okay with splitting skills into Professional and Standard. I sort of get the idea behind why combat styles. But on the whole...something’s off.

So, please help me figure it out. What’s holding me back? Why do I find the BGB a better read (despite the fact the book is literally all over the place)? I can say one thing: I MUCH prefer Wealth Levels and Status rolls to actually coin; if I ever run Mythras that’s getting ported right in.

Folks?

 

I use a blend of MYTHRAS and ALL of the other RQ and BRP rules.  The combat maneuvers are easier to incorporate IF you treat them like Special Effects (hereafter SEs).  I use 3 levels of SEs and break all of them down as follows...

The weakest SEs occur at 1/2 a Skill roll under the chance of success INSTEAD OF on a "Differential Success."  This means that an SE is NOT always awarded on a successful roll.  It also means that you can ignore your own defense WITHOUT giving your opponent an SE to use against you.  The system I use also allows for ONLY ONE SE,  whereas the Mythras system will allow multiple SEs based on multiple success levels.  I simply give BETTER SEs for higher success levels.  I find that this speeds up gameplay and reduces "analysis paralysis."  

The next most powerful SEs fall under 1/10th Skill Level (rounding up) and include all of the Specials from Runequest such as the Slash, Impale, and Crush. 

I do Criticals as DOUBLES under the chance to hit (treating 00 as "zero, zero, not 100).  So on a 50% chance to hit, a Critical Hit occurs on 00, 11, 22, 33, & 44.   I find that this reduces the "math" during the game and speeds up the play from round to round.  

By doing SEs as the occasional "spectacular move" [instead of awarding one for every successful roll],  and allowing only ONE SE (of rising potency), it makes them feel more "Special" and picking them becomes something of a "treat" for a good roll.  

      I like Mythras' initiative over BRP/Runequest strike ranks.  I use hit locations, and I kind of like RQ/BRP's Spirit Magic over the Mythras Spirit Magic because you can "scale it."  I do this for the Shaman in particular.  Scaling up Spirit Magic [for the shaman only] allows them to reach Rune Priest power levels.  I use Mongoose RQ's  system of separate Armor Points and Hit Points for weapons, but I don't mind "crunch" and I'm playing with a group of 4 on most occasions..          

Edited by olskool
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31 minutes ago, olskool said:

and I kind of like RQ/BRP's Spirit Magic over the Mythras Spirit Magic because you can "scale it."  

You can use the Progressive Folk Magic, a house rule for MYTHRAS. It's Folk Magic with scaling.

 

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You can use the Progressive Folk Magic, a house rule for MYTHRAS. It's Folk Magic with scaling.

It's worth pointing out that what's being referred to here only appears in 'Adventures in Glorantha', which was limited to 50 copies produced for GenCon back in 2015, so it's not an option that found elsewhere.

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15 hours ago, StanTheMan said:

A simple question with probably a non-simple answer - for those that have been exposed to both, why do you prefer BRP to Mythras?

I ask because, while I own several Mythras books, for real, I can’t get myself to run the things. I’m trying to suss out why. I’m not a fan of hit locations for sure (though M-Space helps mitigate some of that). I’m actively intimidated by the combat special effects (it isn’t the complexity; I’ve run Torchbearer and Burning Wheel with no issue). I’m okay with splitting skills into Professional and Standard. I sort of get the idea behind why combat styles. But on the whole...something’s off.

So, please help me figure it out. What’s holding me back? Why do I find the BGB a better read (despite the fact the book is literally all over the place)? I can say one thing: I MUCH prefer Wealth Levels and Status rolls to actually coin; if I ever run Mythras that’s getting ported right in.

Folks?

 

The easiest way to answer the question is to actively play some Mythras RAW and see how it stacks up when compared with BRP. Create some characters - or use something prepared in one of the free scenarios we host on the TDM website and give it a go.

Combat's Special Effects might seem intimidating, and if you're not used to them, they do create a different kind of play, but they do help speed-up combat. If analysis-paralysis is a concern, then choose a handful and limit choices to those. What Special Effects are designed to is remove the need for Hit Point attrition as a way of winning a fight: you simply don't have to slog away at the enemy until they stop moving. Effects offer a range of ways to put an opponent beyond being able to retaliate without a) penalising the attacker with negative modifiers for choosing a specific kind of action; b) offering some creative and cinematic ways of handling combat tactics. After one or two combat sessions, they become second-nature, but the best thing is to try them first.

Of course, Mythras may not suit you or your group's playing style, and that's absolutely fine. But we always advise people who are feeling a little daunted to just give it a try. It's actually a very coherent, logical system that flows very well during play.

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It is possible to adjust your D100 variant to the complexity you want - not necessarily using the BGB or the full set of Mythras rules or any other incarnation like RQ3 or Ringworld, or the old Drakar och Demoner adaptation of Magic World.

It all depends on the needs of your setting, really.

My old, long running RQ3 game (late eighties, early nineties of the last century, which started with the RQ3 Vikings box set on a fantasy map of my own making) included cultures using different magic systems, like a "lesser wizardry" loosely based on Drakar och Demoner (aiming to reflect the magic of the Lesser Path of Magic in Midkemia) or the demonology of Stormbringer 3rd ed. 

If you want to have science fantasy of some kind, you could mechanize RQ3 style magic, creating MP batteries that might be loaded using solar collectors or sacrifice, 

Quote

It's worth pointing out that what's being referred to here only appears in 'Adventures in Glorantha', which was limited to 50 copies produced for GenCon back in 2015, so it's not an option that found elsewhere.

But can those rules be introduced into a licensed setting adaptation?

Edited by Joerg
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It's worth pointing out that what's being referred to here only appears in 'Adventures in Glorantha', which was limited to 50 copies produced for GenCon back in 2015, so it's not an option that found elsewhere.

But can those rules be introduced into a licensed setting adaptation?

We'd be reluctant (and highly unlikely) to do so because it radically changes the way Folk Magic is designed to work. There would need to be a very good reason for doing so and honestly, outside of Glorantha, there isn't a setting we've produced where we haven't been able to find a better alternative to a limited set of powers (magical or otherwise).

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Just as an aside:

  • Another option would be to start with MYTHRAS IMPERATIVE instead of MYTHRAS CORE or with M-SPACE and its Simplified Combat [General Hit Points, Major Wound Levels, no Hit Locations]. M-SPACE uses Mythras Imperative as well.The Simplified Combat rules in M-SPACE have the Special Effects only as options not by default.
  • The rules for Wealth and Status are in MYTHIC ROME

 

 

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51 minutes ago, David Howard said:

I do wish Chaosium would support Magic World better, or release an OGL for BRP so we can do it ourselves!

Magic World was my introduction to BRP and a hidden gem. The ruleset is great but the setting should have leveraged Magic World's subsystems better and the presentation could have been massively better. I know it won't happen but I can dream of a book that leverages Magic World's rules but done with the care and dilligence RuneQuest received. Would be great!

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5 hours ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

The easiest way to answer the question is to actively play some Mythras RAW and see how it stacks up when compared with BRP. Create some characters - or use something prepared in one of the free scenarios we host on the TDM website and give it a go.

Combat's Special Effects might seem intimidating, and if you're not used to them, they do create a different kind of play, but they do help speed-up combat. If analysis-paralysis is a concern, then choose a handful and limit choices to those. What Special Effects are designed to is remove the need for Hit Point attrition as a way of winning a fight: you simply don't have to slog away at the enemy until they stop moving. Effects offer a range of ways to put an opponent beyond being able to retaliate without a) penalising the attacker with negative modifiers for choosing a specific kind of action; b) offering some creative and cinematic ways of handling combat tactics. After one or two combat sessions, they become second-nature, but the best thing is to try them first.

Of course, Mythras may not suit you or your group's playing style, and that's absolutely fine. But we always advise people who are feeling a little daunted to just give it a try. It's actually a very coherent, logical system that flows very well during play.

Well, I may have to just try it then. I don’t know what gets me (what I’m trying to figure out here). I’ve run Burning Wheel and GURPS on the regular, so it isn’t complexity at all. Just...I don’t know. So, just running the darn thing may do it. Maybe.

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3 minutes ago, StanTheMan said:

Well, I may have to just try it then. I don’t know what gets me (what I’m trying to figure out here). I’ve run Burning Wheel and GURPS on the regular, so it isn’t complexity at all. Just...I don’t know. So, just running the darn thing may do it. Maybe.

Instead of running MYTHRAS for a group of players, you can do something different:  Do it all by yourself, creating 1-3 characters [or use pregens, there are many of them out there, for free] and play some adventures [from your own stock or one of the free stuff]  and do some experiments with the combat rules.

Che Webster did this with CLASSIC FANTASY and documented on his blog the discovery of the MYTHRAS/CLASSIC FANTASY ruleset in solo play.

This is more than just a dry reading of rules [the MYTHRAS rules are written very technical, which is a sign for a good rulebook] but a lot more easier to learn than in serious table top gaming situation with other players.

Another option, maybe obvious: start as a player in a MYTHRAS group [online/offline] and learn in-game as a player how it all works.


 

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On 3/18/2020 at 2:03 PM, prinz.slasar said:

Che Webster did this with CLASSIC FANTASY and documented on his blog the discovery of the MYTHRAS/CLASSIC FANTASY ruleset in solo play.

Jörg and I were chatting about this, this very afternoon. Oliver Dickinson did likewise with RQ, never gamed with others is my understanding, but as a professor and quite a bright bulb in his own right, was able to get enough of a gist to become a Glorantha sage and author (in his own write :)).

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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