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Rune Fixes #2


MOB

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Here is the second Rune Fixes:

It gives more details on the Rune Spells Extension and Berserker, and for Aimed Blows, and Two-Weapon Fighting.

Rune Fixes are also available to download from the Chaosium website, along with an assorted set of related free downloads for RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha, including Rune Fixes #1, the RQ2/3 to RQG conversion guide, errata for RQG's first printing, and information about Gloranthan metals and crystals from the forthcoming GM's book. All available to download free:

https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-rune-fixes 

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Maybe we can release a Rune Fixes Fixes on the Jonstown Compendium 😅

I was also surprised to see that this new document adds to the previous Rune Fixes, as opposed to being a newer, bigger version.

Edited by lordabdul
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46 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Maybe we can release a Rune Fixes Fixes on the Jonstown Compendium 😅

I have been tempted to collate the Well of Daliath errata into a PDF to load up here, but definitely feels like I'd be overstepping myself.

That said, it seems to me that RF2 overturns the errata ruling regarding the Stackability requirements of spells cast with Extension, since all the sample "problem" spells ([Weapon] Trance, etc.) are Nonstackable. Broadly, that seems a good thing because it makes life simpler.

...

And lets me once more Extend my Bear's Strength so I can hit people really hard. I might be a lil biased here.

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6 hours ago, Crel said:

That said, it seems to me that RF2 overturns the errata ruling regarding the Stackability requirements of spells cast with Extension, since all the sample "problem" spells ([Weapon] Trance, etc.) are Nonstackable. Broadly, that seems a good thing because it makes life simpler.

Yes, very happy to see it go - it always looked like a mistake to me.

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7 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I was also surprised to see that this new document adds to the previous Rune Fixes, as opposed to being a newer, bigger version.

It makes it very readable, though - otherwise, there would eventually be this huge document with small patches of new stuff in it.

I'm sure it will eventually get collected into a full errata.

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8 hours ago, Crel said:

That said, it seems to me that RF2 overturns the errata ruling regarding the Stackability requirements of spells cast with Extension, since all the sample "problem" spells ([Weapon] Trance, etc.) are Nonstackable. Broadly, that seems a good thing because it makes life simpler.

It looks like the WoD text has been replaced by the RF2 text now. What was it that was overturned?

Also, I had to look up the original RQG description for the Extension spell to spot the differences. AFAICT, the differences are the new ending sentence ("Rune points stacked in Extension and the affected spell cannot be regained until the spell expires."), and the mention that the spell is "Stackable up to 5 points", which I don't quite understand totally (I guess it's to prevent people from saying "I stack 10 points to extend to 2 years!" ? You can only spend 5 points maximum on Extension?)

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16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

On the other hand, this is super-important.

It really is. Certainly as BwT have been playing it as otherwise stacking various spells for years in sequence becomes rather easy. Sure Shield and Axe Trance dont let you lead normal lives. But Charisma and various other spells do. Of course that may well be worth it in some cases but that's a nice crunchy set of choices for players and I'm all in favour of options. Sure you can stack x but it's going to mean you have no or limited rune pool for the duration. Oh, your comrade is down and really needs a Heal Wound? Shame. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/20/2020 at 1:41 AM, Thaz said:

It really is. Certainly as BwT have been playing it as otherwise stacking various spells for years in sequence becomes rather easy. Sure Shield and Axe Trance dont let you lead normal lives. But Charisma and various other spells do. Of course that may well be worth it in some cases but that's a nice crunchy set of choices for players and I'm all in favour of options. Sure you can stack x but it's going to mean you have no or limited rune pool for the duration. Oh, your comrade is down and really needs a Heal Wound? Shame. 

If you are in Axe or Sword Trance you *don't care." And should roleplay it that way. In fact you are too deep in trance to cast any such spells on yourself. Not because you can't, but because you don't want to.

 

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On 3/20/2020 at 1:41 AM, Thaz said:

But Charisma and various other spells do.

Speaking of Charisma -- am I correct that this spell is quite weak, and only vaguely useful for high-CHA characters? If you have CHA 10, it only gives you +10% in Communication skills. At CHA 16 it gives +20%. It's not too bad, but you can get an Augment instead for a similar increase, so Charisma is really just useful as a top-up? Or am I missing some better use for it?

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On 4/14/2020 at 6:55 AM, lordabdul said:

Speaking of Charisma -- am I correct that this spell is quite weak, and only vaguely useful for high-CHA characters? If you have CHA 10, it only gives you +10% in Communication skills. At CHA 16 it gives +20%. It's not too bad, but you can get an Augment instead for a similar increase, so Charisma is really just useful as a top-up? Or am I missing some better use for it?

It's devastating if you get into a situation where you roll Charisma opposed to something, or a generic Charisma x 5.

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Communication Skills Category Modifier

CHA

9–12

13–16

17–20

21-24

25-28

29-32

33-36

Modifier

-

+5%

+10%

+15%

+20%

+25%

+30%

Using average stats for an adventurer (10-11), their Communication Skills Category Modifier is going to be 0%. With Charisma 10-11 (x2 is 20/22) it's going to be either +10 or +15%. and spirit combat damage of 

If your adventurer has a charisma of 16 (x2=32), it gives you a Modifier of +25%

Higher levels are obviously more beneficial, but players still use Charisma as it can make or break a skill test. For rune lords of cults that provide it, it's indispensable as they will routinely get a +30% bonus.

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5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It's devastating if you get into a situation where you roll Charisma opposed to something, or a generic Charisma x 5.

It's one of those things where I'm always on the fence about rolling raw stats. For instance, a player casts Charisma and proceeds to charm someone. Me, the GM: "roll for Charm, you get a measly +15% from your spell". The player: "can I roll CHAx5 directly instead and get a whooping +70%?". Me, the GM: "Errr I don't know, you're trying to charm someone, and that's what the Charm skill is for".

Repeat for any other situation like bargaining, bullshitting, intimidating, gossiping, etc. I'm not quite sure there's any social situation that warrants using raw CHA? I can't think of any right now.

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It can also do wonders for your Spirit Combat Damage.

Sure, but a spell called "Charisma" would be weird if it was mainly used for increasing Spirit Damage. But yes, that's one of the only things I can see where it would be good.

7 minutes ago, David Scott said:

If your adventurer has a charisma of 16 (x2=32), it gives you a Modifier of +25%

Higher levels are obviously more beneficial, but players still use Charisma as it can make or break a skill test. For rune lords of cults that provide it, it's indispensable as they will routinely get a +30% bonus.

I'm not sure if you did consider it or not, but note that parts of those modifiers are already accounted for. If you have CHA 16, you already have +5% in Communication skills. Casting Charisma gets you to +25% in total, so that's +20% from what you were at before -- the spell gives you +20%. That's why I was saying it was on par with any Passion/Augment (and also probably similar in terms of chances of success, and doesn't cost a Rune point). That's why I was saying it was a "top-up", where doing both Passion and Charisma might give you +30% or +40%, which is non negligible, but as a player you probably start with the Augment. It's indeed more interesting if you're a super high-CHA character like a Rune Lord, but frankly at this point I'm more interested in beginner characters taking that spell at creation or after their first couple seasons of play, and whether it's worth it.

Basically, the reason I find it weird and out of place is that many combat spells routinely let you double your combat skills, and I don't understand why non-combat magic isn't also giving you equivalent bonuses in non-combat spells... (like double skill percentages in non-confrontational communication skills).

But anyway, I'm diverting the thread from its original intent, sorry about that.

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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

Sure, but a spell called "Charisma" would be weird if it was mainly used for increasing Spirit Damage. But yes, that's one of the only things I can see where it would be good.

I think that's a problem of terminology, perhaps "damage" is not the right term for the numerical results of Spirit Combat success. Maybe "Combat" is also imperfect.

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6 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I'm not quite sure there's any social situation that warrants using raw CHA? I can't think of any right now.

"As I enter Boldhome, I want to appear majestic and impressive"? I don't think there's any skill for that? 

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16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

"As I enter Boldhome, I want to appear majestic and impressive"? I don't think there's any skill for that? 

Maybe? I would probably not do that personally. Instead I would ask how the player plans to appear majestic... dressing well? Dancing down the streets? Loudly announcing their arrival? Or just acting like they're important (body language)? Ordering NPCs to spread the word of their feats? And then pick the skill for that.

But that's one of the problems I have with BRP, actually. In games where skills are based upon stats, stat rolls (if they even exist) represent the skill default -- so the players are encouraged to describe how they do things and pick an appropriate skill, because that increases their chances. In BRP however most of the time a STATx5 roll will be better than half their skills, and the guidance for other multipliers is not super clear to me. Multiplying these scores is annoying anyway (which CoC solves by pre-calculating 2 of them and only sticking to that). Which is another reason I barely ever do stat rolls except for STR rolls to kick a door in, or other such common things where there's really no skill.

Anyway -- my original question was "did I miss anything about this spell?" and it seems the answer is "no".  Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions!

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26 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Maybe? I would probably not do that personally. Instead I would ask how the player plans to appear majestic... dressing well? Dancing down the streets? Loudly announcing their arrival? Or just acting like they're important (body language)? Ordering NPCs to spread the word of their feats? And then pick the skill for that...

How about "all of the above?"

What we'd call today a "coordinated media campaign..." mostly CHA-driven skills.

 

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On 4/14/2020 at 5:55 AM, lordabdul said:

Speaking of Charisma -- am I correct that this spell is quite weak,

Massively useful and probably my Shaman Characters most used spell. Spirit Combat, to buff his Sing skill which is used then used to generally buff the party and himself, before various communications rolls as he has become the party's 'Face Man' and to cast on the Vingan before she talks to various VIP's. Also used in the Inn while singing of everyones exploits to scum for Rep 😄 

 

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