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Weapon size limit for weapon enhancing spells?

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It might be debatable whether the ram counts as a "weapon" in its own right (and even moreso, whether it's bludgeoning or piercing), but for the rest, it certainly seems so. The extra damage will be negligible, but the to-hit bonus matters a lot.

This is also supported by the way Multimissile is written - you can cast it on bigger missiles, just with an additional cost (as it's a multiplier).

I would approve of a Mostali "Catapult Trance" spell. Although I suppose proper Mostali are in an almost trance-like state in their tasks anyway.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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29 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Can Bludgeon be cast on a ship's ram or any tree a giant uses? And can Speedart be cast on war engine missiles?

Great ideas for using them. I can imagine there being a specific spirit/rune/sorcery spell somewhere called Ram that is specific to ships, but I would let bludgeon work anyhow . Speedart even says any missile in its description.

 

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What is the difference between a 16m giant swinging a tree trunk against a door and a battering ram? No, it isn't an odd Nysalor Riddle. If you think about it, they are the same thing, just one is wielded by a giant and the other by some kind of harness.

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4 hours ago, Brootse said:

Can Bludgeon be cast on a ship's ram or any tree a giant uses? And can Speedart be cast on war engine missiles?

There was a size limit of sorts for  Multimissile in RQ3, with the spell requiring 1 MP per 2D6 weapon damage, probably to keep siege engines in check, but that's about it.

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Always bear in mind that the rules have been written for adventurers, and the game system is centered around the human scale. GMs should feel free to adjust or veto anything outside of that.

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Thanks for the answers!

 

  

On 3/24/2020 at 5:40 PM, Akhôrahil said:

It might be debatable whether the ram counts as a "weapon" in its own right (and even moreso, whether it's bludgeoning or piercing), but for the rest, it certainly seems so. The extra damage will be negligible, but the to-hit bonus matters a lot.

This is also supported by the way Multimissile is written - you can cast it on bigger missiles, just with an additional cost (as it's a multiplier).

I would approve of a Mostali "Catapult Trance" spell. Although I suppose proper Mostali are in an almost trance-like state in their tasks anyway.

I have a Stormbringer naval book Sailing on the Seas of Fate, and in it rams can impale, which would imply them being piercing weapons. But I think that Bludgeon is more fitting spell for them than Bladesharp.

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3 minutes ago, Brootse said:

I have a Stormbringer naval book Sailing on the Seas of Fate, and in it rams can impale, which would imply them being piercing weapons. But I think that Bludgeon is more fitting spell for them than Bladesharp.

One good thing about Impales is that it means your ram can get stuck in the other ship.

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1 hour ago, Brootse said:

I have a Stormbringer naval book Sailing on the Seas of Fate, and in it rams can impale, which would imply them being piercing weapons. But I think that Bludgeon is more fitting spell for them than Bladesharp.

This is precisely why a human-scale spell should not be usable on a battlefield-scale weapon.

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37 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

This is precisely why a human-scale spell should not be usable on a battlefield-scale weapon.

In that book ram damage is 2D6+6, plus an additional 1D6 for every 50 rowers. So a Wolf Pirate penteconter would do 3d6+6 points of damage, and a trireme 5d6+6. Casting Bludgeon spell would help somewhat, but it wouldn't be a game changer.

 

e: And similarly, Speedart's +3 to damage improves catapult's 6d6 points of damage only slightly.

Edited by Brootse

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maybe waiting for battle rules, I hope some battlefield spell would be described

in other case (homerule) I would consider :

- there are specialized spells known by people / cults dedicated to the purpose (wachaza, dormal ? , ..).

- the dammage bonus must be enough (not +1 but +1d6 or +3 +6...) considering  the "standard" dammage

- the cost should be proportional to the dammage bonus (not 1 or 2 magic points)

 

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59 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

maybe waiting for battle rules, I hope some battlefield spell would be described

Well, we know there are groups who can pool their magic. Sartar Magical Union, Crater Makers, Lunar College of Magic, this is something that we know is going on. We know nothing of the "how", either in Gloranthan or RuneQuest terms.

So this kind of spell is probably some technique for a group of people all casting magic in a concerted manner. Like, if X people all cast Bludgeon Y on a ram, then it gets +YDX damage. 6 people with Bludgeon 4 gives 4D6. 10 people with Bludgeon 2 gives 2D10.

Where the technique comes from, whether it needs a skill, a ritual spell, a Rune spell, a HeroQuest power, a sub-cult membership, I don't know.

Does anyone know if group magic is planned for any particular publication? Is it in The Red Book of Magic (which I don't think is destined for publication in the exact same form that it currently exists)?

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7 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Where the technique comes from, whether it needs a skill, a ritual spell, a Rune spell, a HeroQuest power, a sub-cult membership, I don't know.

I think there's a number of techniques that can allow mass spell casting. I can imagine them being roughly related to the magic forms:

A heroquest could gain you magic to allow group rune spell casting from a particular god (ritual to cast cloud call with 100 participants)

Sorcery could gain you a spell that lets you cast multiple spirit magic together (like mobility on a horse troop).

A powerful spirit or artefact could act as the focus allowing group spirit or rune spell casting.

Sorcery could have rituals that allow the combination of all of the above. Clearly the god learners had some of these techniques and some are alive still in places, but just not used or abused. For example a Bartar priest might have learnt from a hero/subcult/ancestor a ritual that allows Bless Crops to be cast by a group in one stack (5 people with Bless Crops 2 = Bless Crops 10) with him as the focus, so using his Earth Rune casting %. The payment could be that they need to stack 2mps each as well to provide the cohesion. Then someone realises that they could try it with another spell (it might not work or need more mps etc).

Methods could allow one person to act as a focus for a group, or a group to act cohesively.

I'm sure others could dream up bits I've likely missed. All of this is easily modelled in RQG.

 

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3 hours ago, Brootse said:

And similarly, Speedart's +3 to damage improves catapult's 6d6 points of damage only slightly.

One for the Munchkin Thread, perhaps, but casting Firearrow on a Missile makes it to 3D6 damage, so if the missile heading towards you is a catapult stone doing 6D6 damage, say, just cast Firearrow on it to reduce the damage. 

Edited by soltakss
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2 hours ago, David Scott said:

I think there's a number of techniques that can allow mass spell casting. I can imagine them being roughly related to the magic forms:

A heroquest could gain you magic to allow group rune spell casting from a particular god (ritual to cast cloud call with 100 participants)

Sorcery could gain you a spell that lets you cast multiple spirit magic together (like mobility on a horse troop).

A powerful spirit or artefact could act as the focus allowing group spirit or rune spell casting.

Sorcery could have rituals that allow the combination of all of the above. Clearly the god learners had some of these techniques and some are alive still in places, but just not used or abused. For example a Bartar priest might have learnt from a hero/subcult/ancestor a ritual that allows Bless Crops to be cast by a group in one stack (5 people with Bless Crops 2 = Bless Crops 10) with him as the focus, so using his Earth Rune casting %. The payment could be that they need to stack 2mps each as well to provide the cohesion. Then someone realises that they could try it with another spell (it might not work or need more mps etc).

Methods could allow one person to act as a focus for a group, or a group to act cohesively.

I'm sure others could dream up bits I've likely missed. All of this is easily modelled in RQG.

I like these!

I'll add one of my own:

I bet that (at least some) Wyters can coordinate a multi-person casting, too; maybe just 1 "signature" spell, or spells of a particular theme.  Wyters are supposed to be a community-focus thing, after all...

 

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