Several lore questions

[coffeemancer]

Couldnt find a general lore thread so I will just shoot out a bunch of questions here.

1. at year 1625, what are the tribes of Sartar and what are their clans?

2. Orlanthi have both dowries and bride price, how is it decided which shall be paid?

3. What are Gagarth's runes? my idea is Air, Disorder and Heat (since he is the hot wind. or maybe instead og heat Darkness since he is a bit of a psycho?)

4.which are the pro lunar clans of sartar?

 

[Richard S.]

All I can answer at the moment is the Gagarth one: He's Air+Disorder. Generally three runes are reserved for the major gods like Orlanth, Kyger Litor, Yelm, Ernalda, etc.

[coffeemancer]

6 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

All I can answer at the moment is the Gagarth one: He's Air+Disorder. Generally three runes are reserved for the major gods like Orlanth, Kyger Litor, Yelm, Ernalda, etc.

Gotcha

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, coffeemancer said:

1. at year 1625, what are the tribes of Sartar and what are their clans?

 

And this is the only one I can (kinda) answer....

The Tribes of Sartar

When Sartar first founded his kingdom it includedseventeen tribes. As time passed additional tribes joined, and at the Fall of Boldhome the last Prince mourned the destruction of the “Twenty-Four Tribes of Sartar.” Since their coming, the Lunars have disbanded several tribes, and new ones have formed or moved into the land. But the “Twenty-four Tribes of Sartar” are remembered by all true Sartarites: Amad, Aranwyth, Bachad, Balkoth, Balmyr, Cinsina, Colymar, Culbrea, Dinacoli, Dundealos, Durulz, Kheldon, Kultain, Lismelder, Locaem, Maboder, Malani, Poljoni, Princeros, Sambari, Telmori, Torkani, Tovtaros, and Vantaros.

From Page 228 of Sartar Kingdom of Heroes.

Now this gets interesting seeing as this was 1617-ish and I know the Dinacoli are part of the Alda-chur Overtribe, the Maboder fell to the claws of the Telmori in 1605, and though I am unsure of the year the Dundealos fell afoul of the Lunars and had their tribe broken and do not know if and when they rejoin Sartar, they are not a part of the nation for a goodly period. The clans well good lord that would be a challenge as the only tribe I know that has had it’s clans canonically developed was the Colymar. They are (again as of 1617-ish):

Antorling
“The Apple Clan”

Arnoring
“The Potters Clan”

Enhyl
“The Pony Clan”

Enjossi
“The Salmon Clan”

Ernaldor
“The Sacred Clan”

Hiording
“The Swan Clan”

Konthasos
“The Wine Clan”

Narri
“The Pony Clan”

Orlmarth
“The Woodpecker Clan”

Taraling
“The Runegate Clan”

Varmandi
“The War Clan” or “the Feud-makers”

This does not include the severed clans. This can be found on pages 276 and 277 of Sartar Kingdom of Heroes.

Cheers

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

1. at year 1625, what are the tribes of Sartar and what are their clans?

The tribes are shown on the map on p.105 of the RQG core book, assuming you have that (although the Olontongi should really be the Kultain; Olontongi are a new tribe associated with Whitewall rather than Sartar).

Bill noted the Colymar clans.  Various docs have most or all of the clans for Lismelder, Malani, Cinsina, Torkani, Culbrea, and Dinacoli.

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

4.which are the pro lunar clans of sartar?

The most noticeable pro-Lunar clans are those of the Far Point (i.e. the Alda-Chur confederation), particularly the Princeros IIRC.

The Dinacoli are, and they control the lands north of Dangerford (and therefore key trade routes).

The Malani were more pro-Lunar, but I believe the Malani Queen joins Kallyr and others at the Battle of the Queens on the Sartarite side.

The Lismelder are pro-Lunar.  The Enstalos (who briefly replaced the Dundealos from 1618-1625) were, but their leaders died in the Dragonrise.

Likely forgetting a couple others.

[Shiningbrow]

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The most noticeable pro-Lunar clans are those of the Far Point (i.e. the Alda-Chur confederation), particularly the Princeros IIRC.

The Dinacoli are, and they control the lands north of Dangerford (and therefore key trade routes).

The Malani were more pro-Lunar, but I believe the Malani Queen joins Kallyr and others at the Battle of the Queens on the Sartarite side.

The Lismelder are pro-Lunar.  The Enstalos (who briefly replaced the Dundealos from 1618-1625) were, but their leaders died in the Dragonrise.

Likely forgetting a couple others.

What does "pro-Lunar" actually mean? That the heads are deciding to bow their heads to the Red.Emporer? Or that it's lip-service? Or full religious conversion? Or...?

 

How do the individuals feel about all of this? Are there desertions?

[g33k]

23 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

What does "pro-Lunar" actually mean? That the heads are deciding to bow their heads to the Red.Emporer? Or that it's lip-service? Or full religious conversion? Or...?

How do the individuals feel about all of this? Are there desertions?

With such sweeping generalizations, I always presume "it depends."

You'll have everything from "pays lip service, doesn't actively rebel/resist" to "believes it's the only way to survive (or sees great advantage) and pursues full religious & social conversion."

Individuals may rebel (q.v. "exiles"), but mostly not the main group or the influential leaders (or they wouldn't bea  "pro-Lunar" clan, would they?).

 

On the other side, you'll have everything from "Only resists in minor ways, tries mostly to go unnoticed" to "already under arms against the vile Lunars."

 

[Bill the barbarian]

51 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

What does "pro-Lunar" actually mean? That the heads are deciding to bow their heads to the Red.Emporer? Or that it's lip-service? Or full religious conversion? Or...?

 

And a good valid question indeed, If you have S KoH I will turn you in that direction to the pages I mention above for the answers. I have quoted as much as I should and now I should say buy it. To quote Tony the Tiger, “It’s grrrrrreat!” Unbelievably Jeff poo poos his work as it is no longer as canonical as he wishes, but he can’t be referring to these excellent parts, so I still strongly recommend it.

51 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

How do the individuals feel about all of this? Are there desertions?

the second part of your question is equally as astute. Again see above for the page range where this is covered.

...so here is the caveat... not quite canonical,  though I think it is the pictures and cult write-ups that Jeff (the author) objects to. A bit pricey at 20 bucks, but a great value in bang for bucks, and the last third of the book is mostly usable for HQ as is the clan create section but I think a lot of both can translate into RQ with a bit of work. With that said, the URL is below.

https://www.chaosium.com/sartar-kingdom-of-heroes-pdf/

Edited March 31, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Shiningbrow]

22 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

And a good valid question indeed, If you have S KoH I will turn you in that direction to the pages I mention above for the answers. I have quoted as much as I should and now I should say buy it. To quote Tony the Tiger, “It’s grrrrrreat!” Unbelievably Jeff poo poos his work as it is no longer as canonical as he wishes, but he can’t be referring to these excellent parts, so I still strongly recommend it.

the second part of your question is equally as astute. Again see above for the page range where this is covered.

...so here is the caveat... not quite canonical,  though I think it is the pictures and cult write-ups that Jeff (the author) objects to. A bit pricey at 20 bucks, but a great value in bang for bucks, and the last third of the book is mostly usable for HQ as is the clan create section but I think a lot of both can translate into RQ with a bit of work. With that said, the URL is below.

https://www.chaosium.com/sartar-kingdom-of-heroes-pdf/

Okies! Thx. I have, but haven't looked into yet. (I dislike reading e-formats for long periods of time, and my tablet is in the shop anyway )

[Minlister]

You are in for a treat!  This is the book who converted me to Glorantha! Best RPG read ever! 

[coffeemancer]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:48 AM, jajagappa said:

The tribes are shown on the map on p.105 of the RQG core book, assuming you have that (although the Olontongi should really be the Kultain; Olontongi are a new tribe associated with Whitewall rather than Sartar).

Bill noted the Colymar clans.  Various docs have most or all of the clans for Lismelder, Malani, Cinsina, Torkani, Culbrea, and Dinacoli.

 

right you are. I never noticed.
The book is not always very clear about stuff.

[Minlister]

@jajagappa As I am writing a description of the Arfritha Vale, at the time when the Lysang and Namolding have been transfered to the Malani, I am quite interested by the list of the Malani clans. Could you tell me in which publication it can be found?

Thanks!

 

[7Tigers]

For malani:
https://www.glorantha.com/forums/topic/clans-of-the-malani/
 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Minlister said:

Could you tell me in which publication it can be found?

Apparently based on what @7Tigers noted, I asked the same question 5 years ago! 🙂

From older exchanges I had with Jeff, I believe the "unnamed" clan from that list becomes the "Golden Trout" clan.

[coffeemancer]

19 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Apparently based on what @7Tigers noted, I asked the same question 5 years ago! 🙂

From older exchanges I had with Jeff, I believe the "unnamed" clan from that list becomes the "Golden Trout" clan.

are there rivertrouts?

[jajagappa]

17 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

are there rivertrouts?

Presumably trout can be found in the Creek, at least. Whether the clan takes its name from a particular type, I don't know.  But presuming they live along the Creekside.

[coffeemancer]

40 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Presumably trout can be found in the Creek, at least. Whether the clan takes its name from a particular type, I don't know.  But presuming they live along the Creekside.

Ah yes of course! I was thinking of Cod!

Trout sounds more like Cod in norwegian and I am fairly certain there are no freshwater cods

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, coffeemancer said:

Ah yes of course! I was thinking of Cod!

Trout sounds more like Cod in norwegian and I am fairly certain there are no freshwater cods

ARE YOU A FELLOW NORDMANN?

[coffeemancer]

Just now, Sir_Godspeed said:

ARE YOU A FELLOW NORDMANN?

No I just speak the language and have a coffee addiction

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 minute ago, coffeemancer said:

No I just speak the language and have a coffee addiction

That's liable to get you a citizenship, I reckon!

[coffeemancer]

Just now, Sir_Godspeed said:

That's liable to get you a citizenship, I reckon!

I admit it, I am a børk

[Sir_Godspeed]

Woah, language! Kids might read this!

[Bill the barbarian]

To late, I already read it. Oh you mean chronologically, not mentally

Edited April 1, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Nick Brooke]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:30 PM, coffeemancer said:

Couldnt find a general lore thread so I will just shoot out a bunch of questions here.

4.which are the pro lunar clans of sartar?

I summarised the pro-Lunar tribes, here:

The Rough Guide to Sartar
http://etyries.albionsoft.com/etyries.com/journeys/liberate.html

Backstory: this reworked an irritating typology from a book for Hero Wars called Sartar Rising: Barbarian Adventures which itemised the "Free" and "Enslaved" tribes of Sartar. I thought turning this on its head for Lunar propaganda purposes was worth doing: the division into "Liberated" (benefiting from Imperial rule) vs. "Oppressed" (still sunk in barbaric despotism) perfectly mirrors the original piece.

The original ended with a propaganda box called Free the Enslaved Tribes!, so of course I inverted that too. It's kinda my job. Hence, Liberate the Oppressed Tribes!