Clarification on Critical attack vs standard parry

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

How do people interpret the chart result on Critical Attack vs Normal parry on the attack and parry results chart p199 of the RQG core rules?

 

Quote

parrying weapon HP reduced by the damage rolled. Any excess damage goes to adjacent hit location, with no armor protection.

It seems to me its saying that ALL damage goes directly to the weapon HP's, rather than (as in the case of Special vs Normal Parry) only the damage above the weapons HP.

 

The differentiation of wording for Special vs Normal Parry seems to imply this difference 

Quote

parrying weapon takes damage over its HP, with same amount of damage going to adjacent hit location.

Bold text is my emphasis.

 

Is this how others interpret the critical vs normal parry result?

[Kloster]

I read it as "Weapon HP reduced by the damage. If damage is above Weapon HPx2, Weapon is destroyed and extra damage goes to an arm".

Edited April 8, 2020 by Kloster
typing mistake

[soltakss]

Some examples might be in order.

If I do 18 points of damage on a critical hit  and am parried by a weapon with 12 Hit Points, the weapon takes 12 Hit Points of damage and the remaining 6 points goes through as damage, doing 6 points ignoring armour.

If I do 7 points of damage on a critical hit and am parried by a weapon with 12 Hit Points, the weapon takes 7 Hit Points of damage and nothing goes through to do damage to the opponent.

If I do 18 points of damage on a special hit  and am parried by a weapon with 12 Hit Points, the weapon takes 6 Hit Points of damage and 6 points goes through as damage, doing 6 points but armour protects.

If I do 7 points of damage on a special hit and am parried by a weapon with 12 Hit Points, the weapon takes no damage and nothing goes through to do damage to the opponent.

That's how I read it, anyway.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

35 minutes ago, soltakss said:

If I do 18 points of damage on a critical hit  and am parried by a weapon with 12 Hit Points, the weapon takes 12 Hit Points of damage and the remaining 6 points goes through as damage, doing 6 points ignoring armour.

 

My interpretation is the same as yours except for your first example.

I would have said on a crit  of 18 dam vs Normal parry,  that the weapon would be at - 6 hps, ( taking the full rolled damage directly) and 6 hit points would go through as damage ignoring armour. 
 

edit: minus 6 because weapons can go into negative up to the same value as their hp’s

Edited April 8, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[soltakss]

53 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

edit: minus 6 because weapons can go into negative up to the same value as their hp’s

Can they? I wasn't aware of that change. Sure, your example works better, then.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

3 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Can they? I wasn't aware of that change. Sure, your example works better, then.

Don’t think that’s a change as far as I know. Second printing has it on p200

Good to know I’m not alone in interpreting it that way.

[soltakss]

14 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Don’t think that’s a change as far as I know. Second printing has it on p200

Change from RQ2/RQ3 days! 😀

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

35 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Change from RQ2/RQ3 days! 😀

Ah of course! 

[gochie]

I think you have it right:

Crit = lower weapon HP by full damage amount (can bring weapon HP to negative, but any damage past 0 also goes through to the location).

Special = any damage over the weapon's HP lowers the weapon's HP correspondingly (and goes to the location).

Normal = if any damage goes over the weapon's HP, lower the HP of the weapon by 1 (and the extra damage goes to the location).

I should note that I will definitely NOT be using the rule for crits, as they already do a ton of damage. I don't think a sword crit with no STR bonus should automatically 1-shot an iron sword, so I will keep it the same as a special hit.

[Kloster]

19 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

I would have said on a crit  of 18 dam vs Normal parry,  that the weapon would be at - 6 hps, ( taking the full rolled damage directly) and 6 hit points would go through as damage ignoring armour. 

No (for me): If the weapon goes to -6 (I agree with you on that point), nothing goes to the arm. Damage i done to the limb (without armor, I agree with Soltakss) only if the weapon goes to -12. Then it is broken and can not be repaired.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

No (for me): If the weapon goes to -6 (I agree with you on that point), nothing goes to the arm. Damage i done to the limb (without armor, I agree with Soltakss) only if the weapon goes to -12. Then it is broken and can not be repaired.

I think at 0 hp the weapon becomes useless, so damage after that gets through. The minus is just to track when the weapon is completely destroyed/ irreparable. 

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

I think at 0 hp the weapon becomes useless, so damage after that gets through. The minus is just to track when the weapon is completely destroyed/ irreparable. 

What I understand is that the weapon can act as a limb, ie. take (and absorb) damage that goes beyond 0.

[kirinyaga]

it seems wrong as you take less damage by parying normally a crit attack than a special attack. I agree it should stop absorbing damage at 0.

Also note the special does the same damage to both weapon and limb. So damages above weapon hp should not be absorbed.

Edited April 9, 2020 by kirinyaga

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

1 hour ago, kirinyaga said:

 

it seems wrong as you take less damage by parying normally a crit attack than a special attack. I agree it should stop absorbing damage at 0.

Also note the special does the sam

 

I think you have misinterpreted. You don’t take less damage to a characters hit points parrying a crit vs a special. A weapon always deflects damage up to its HP no matter whether a special or crit.

What changes with a crit is the amount of damage the weapon takes. On Crits all the damage is applied directly to weapon HP, on a special only the damage above the weapon HP reduces the HP.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

4 hours ago, Kloster said:

7 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

 

What I understand is that the weapon can act as a limb, ie. take (and absorb) damage that goes beyond 0.

Reading through RQG p200 it says that the weapon is considered “unusable” when it reaches 0 hit points. But it then contradicts by going on to say that you can continue to use the weapon at 1/2 skill. 
My interpretation would be that a weapon only blocks up to its positive hp’s when parrying. If it goes into negative hp you can try and attack with it at 1/2 skill but it will be ineffective at parrying any damage. 
 

But you’re right the text is not 100% clear on this, and that’s purely my interpretation there.  
 

Edit: The example on p 204 shows that a shield only blocks damage up to it’s HP’s of 16. It doesn’t block damage below 0 or negative hit points.
 

Edit: As a house rule I might be inclined to let a weapon with 0 or less hp’s make an attack at 1/2 skill, but that the damage it deals is also applied to itself.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Bill the barbarian]

And we are so close and yet so far, Paid a bod yn dwp, we all want to interview you for the podcast and should you agree I am thinking it will have to be for combat clarification!

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

7 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

And we are so close and yet so far, Paid a bod yn dwp, we all want to interview you for the podcast and should you agree I am thinking it will have to be for combat clarification!

We’re nearly there Bill! If it wasn’t for weapons going into negative hps this would be all over by now 🤪

[kirinyaga]

18 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

I think you have misinterpreted. You don’t take less damage to a characters hit points parrying a crit vs a special. A weapon always deflects damage up to its HP no matter whether a special or crit.

What changes with a crit is the amount of damage the weapon takes. On Crits all the damage is applied directly to weapon HP, on a special only the damage above the weapon HP reduces the HP.

I was answering kloster who precisely said that.

Note if one considers a parying weapon always absorbs its hp in damage, then a negative hp weapon will increase them

[kirinyaga]

18 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Reading through RQG p200 it says that the weapon is considered “unusable” when it reaches 0 hit points. But it then contradicts by going on to say that you can continue to use the weapon at 1/2 skill. 
My interpretation would be that a weapon only blocks up to its positive hp’s when parrying. If it goes into negative hp you can try and attack with it at 1/2 skill but it will be ineffective at parrying any damage. 

Even at 0hp it isn't pointless to parry : if you do a better parry than the attack, the parrying weapon hp doesn't matter. If you have nothing else to try ...

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

1 hour ago, kirinyaga said:

Even at 0hp it isn't pointless to parry : if you do a better parry than the attack, the parrying weapon hp doesn't matter. If you have nothing else to try ...

 

Ah that’s a good point - thanks 

I think that answers the final question - Why parry with a weapon with negative hp’s?
 

@Bill the barbarian The quest is now complete, we have now reached RQG combat enlightenment!...I can feel myself ascending to the hallowed halls of Humakt! 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Thanks all for your replies - that’s confirmed my understanding of the attack/parry chart results