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Will there be a new Stormbringer or Elric! edition ?


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On 2/18/2021 at 10:40 PM, Jason D said:

Moorcock's works were just re-released less than a decade ago by Gollancz, and are still in print. 

The BBC Hawkmoon series will likely spike readers to that novel series and associated Moorcock books. 

I have very little doubt that a new edition of Stormbringer would find an audience among longtime fans as well as newcomers to the character and his amazing universe. 

I have to admit that a new edition of Stormbringer by Chaosium (especially with the much improved quality of the products under the new management) would feel like things are right again. In my youth, Chaosium was Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Pendragon and Stormbringer (with a good nod to SuperWorld). It feels like almost everyone is back home.

Edited by DreadDomain
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IIRC, the Eternal Champion game rights are tied up with the BBC as part of their Hawkmoon miniseries. 

If we got 1 and 2 we'd make 3 happen. But with all the will in the world, the RPG rights are not currently available.

Moorcock's works were just re-released less than a decade ago by Gollancz, and are still in print.  The BBC Hawkmoon series will likely spike readers to that novel series and associated Moorcock

On 2/20/2021 at 7:18 AM, DreadDomain said:

I have to admit that a new edition of Stormbringer by Chaosium (especially with the much improved quality of the products under the new management) would feel like things are right again. In my youth, Chaosium was Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Pendragon and Stormbringer (with a good nod to SuperWorld). It feels like almost everyone is back home.

I share that feeling. I'm looking forward to new stuff like the Lords of the Middle Sea rpg, but a part of me also feels that Chaosium still has a Stormbringer-shaped hole in it ...

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11 hours ago, Jakob said:

I share that feeling. I'm looking forward to new stuff like the Lords of the Middle Sea rpg, but a part of me also feels that Chaosium still has a Stormbringer-shaped hole in it ...

By the way, I believe this year is the 20th anniversary of Stormbringer 5e. What a wonderful year would it be for a 6th edition.

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7 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

By the way, I believe this year is the 20th anniversary of Stormbringer 5e. What a wonderful year would it be for a 6th edition.

But wouldn't it require that Chaosium licences the rights to publish that edition to the french company publishing Mournblade ? My understanding was that they were the current holders of the right.

And I don't know if they can do it without Moorcock's consent, either legally or morally.

Edited by Mugen
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On 2/17/2021 at 11:53 AM, Jason D said:

All of those issues were with the old management, who are no longer with the company.

Chaosium is essentially a new company, fiscally stable and responsible, and the company has done much to rectify the mistakes of the past, even going above and beyond what could be reasonably expected. I cannot provide more details, but a major goal has been to re-establish goodwill with the Moorcocks.

Ok, so this is just hypothetical chatting but so is most of this thread anyway. 😁

@Sasori and I were chatting yesterday and it sure would make sense for Chaosium to work on a new edition of Stormbringer.

Imagine how much work it would take to develop and adapt the Stormbringer world to a new rule system. Take, for example, the 2D20 system or DCC rules. Both great systems but it's still lots of work. Not to mention that these systems might not fit the style of the setting. Going with 5E might gather lots of people but lots of haters too.

On the other hand, BRP is like fine wine, it just gets better and the rules of COC 7e have been perfected over the past 40 years. It's mostly just a matter of refining the previous Stormbringer rules to the current updates. Plus, they already have a rough draft of the book by just using previous editions. I'm not saying you can just copy and paste... but it can certainly speed up the process. And some of the Pulp rules could also be imported into a new edition.

Plus, in addition to creating new scenarios and campaigns, Chaosium would also have the option of updating previous material which would again, quickly provide more options for new players.

Hopefully Mr. Moorcock sees the improvement of the current management and talent of the creative team as well as the potential for an updated Chaosium edition of Stormbringer. 🤞

Edited by Mat Mobile
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I forgot to mention that, in all fairness, I haven't played Stormbringer yet. Heck, I haven't been able to find a copy of the books yet (I like to buy vintage editions second hand so I haven't found this treasure yet). But I can't wait to plunge into this Dark Fantasy world!

I just discovered it thanks to the Vintage RPG podcast that focused on this setting. A little more research and I stumbled upon The Grognard files. Now I'm really curious and @Sasori promised to run a Stormbringer campaign for me and our group. In exchange, I promised him I would run a Pendragon campaign for him and our group. 😉 That's fair, right?!? 🤝

We're both hoping new editions of these games will be coming out once we get to run these campaigns since our gaming list is looong... 😆Maybe 2022?

But if ever a new edition doesn't materialize, the worst case scenario is that we will play an older edition of Stormbringer.

Edited by Mat Mobile
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On 2/18/2021 at 12:40 PM, Jason D said:

Moorcock's works were just re-released less than a decade ago by Gollancz, and are still in print. 

The BBC Hawkmoon series will likely spike readers to that novel series and associated Moorcock books. 

I have very little doubt that a new edition of Stormbringer would find an audience among longtime fans as well as newcomers to the character and his amazing universe. 

Anything that involves the multiverse would likely capture the attention of a wider audience, now that we have Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness looming (WandaVision is going to lead into it I believe), the second season of His Dark Materials has finished. Then strike with individual setting books, like Young Kingdoms etc.

Edited by RogerDee
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9 hours ago, Mugen said:

But wouldn't it require that Chaosium licences the rights to publish that edition to the french company publishing Mournblade ? My understanding was that they were the current holders of the right.

And I don't know if they can do it without Moorcock's consent, either legally or morally.

Just to be clear, my comment was not anchored in reality. Chaosium said already the rights were not available and even if they were, they could not produce a new edition in 9 months. My comment was absolutely fantasy.

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20 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

But wouldn't it require that Chaosium licences the rights to publish that edition to the french company publishing Mournblade ?

It is our understanding that they have the French language rights. While it is certainly possible to have the rights globally in all languages, that is not the case with Mournblade.

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On 2/22/2021 at 2:10 AM, Mugen said:

...

And I don't know if they can do it without Moorcock's consent, either legally or morally.

I am *quite* certain that they cannot, and would not try.
I strongly suspect that they would be *VERY* open to getting the license again (depending on the licensing terms).

I don't know how much effort they'd be willing/able to put in, to achieve that; it might take a lot more effort than they're willing to exert, or resources available (or it might not; "I don't know" means  I. don't. know. ) .
 

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On 2/24/2021 at 1:55 AM, Rick Meints said:

It is our understanding that they have the French language rights. While it is certainly possible to have the rights globally in all languages, that is not the case with Mournblade.

For some reason, the extract you quoted is not from me. Irrespective, It was my understanding from quotes from MOB and Jason that the rpg rights were not available (Jason adding it was tied up with the BBC). I would be happy to be wrong.

On 4/13/2020 at 4:12 PM, Jason D said:

IIRC, the Eternal Champion game rights are tied up with the BBC as part of their Hawkmoon miniseries

On 4/11/2020 at 9:52 PM, MOB said:

If we got 1 and 2 we'd make 3 happen. But with all the will in the world, the RPG rights are not currently available.

On 1/26/2021 at 11:55 PM, MOB said:

As noted earlier in the thread, the RPG rights are not currently available.

 

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5 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

For some reason, the extract you quoted is not from me. Irrespective, It was my understanding from quotes from MOB and Jason that the rpg rights were not available (Jason adding it was tied up with the BBC). I would be happy to be wrong.

Intellectual property licenses are weird and sometimes messy things, especially when it comes to larger IPs and multiple licensees. 

Many seemingly contradictory things can be true simultaneously. 

 

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On 2/23/2021 at 4:55 PM, Rick Meints said:

It is our understanding that they have the French language rights. While it is certainly possible to have the rights globally in all languages, that is not the case with Mournblade.

They originally licenced the game from Mongoose, which was the owner of the rights in all languages at that time, so I guess it's very possible they only got the French publishing rights.

Even though Mongoose doesn't have the rights anymore, the visuals for the Mournblade core book still show their logos (both MGP and EoM) on it.

https://titam-france.fr/jeux-de-role/produit/mournblade-michael-moorcock-i-livre-de-base/

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48 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

Are you trying to give us hope? 🤔🙂

Quite the opposite.

Trying to clarify what seems to be deliberately missed. 

A French studio has the rights to do Mournblade and (I gather) Hawkmoon in French. They have indicated on social media that they want to do an English version of Mournblade, called Stormbringer. I am led to understand that they don't have global rights, which I assume includes English. Rick - who knows far more about these things than I do - says the same.

The BBC is doing an adaptation of Hawkmoon, and has the game rights currently wrapped up with their license. I don't really know the specifics of that license. It may include more elements of the Eternal Champion IP, it may also be in conflict with the French license. Or the BBC license may have an exception letting the French studio have the French game rights.

Usually, these things either take effort to resolve, or the rights expire. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jason D said:

They have indicated on social media that they want to do an English version of Mournblade, called Stormbringer.

That would be confusing for everybody : french players led to think, it's not a translation of Mournblade, and English speaking customers that would think it's a new edition of Chaosium's game...

Renaming Elric! into StormBringer was less confusing, as Elric! had clear ties with SB, and other Chaodium games.

Edited by Mugen
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4 hours ago, Mugen said:

@Jason DHmm... I asked one of the people of the Département des Sombres Projets on a french forum, and he seemed very surprised. According to hil, they never announced anything like that.

How about you quote what he said, or post a link, as opposed to giving a vague "he said something else" summary?

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2 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

How about you quote what he said, or post a link, as opposed to giving a vague "he said something else" summary?

https://www.casusno.fr/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=34910&start=285

Exact quote :

@Agent Sylvain Sur leur forum, Chaosium a l'air de penser que vous avez des plans pour traduire MournBlade en anglais, sous le nom StormBringer ?

Comme je n'ai rien vu là-dessus : est-ce vrai ?
Je ne sais pas d'où viendrait cette info. Je ne crois pas qu'on ait jamais communiqué quoi que ce soit sur ce sujet, et on ne compte pas le faire. On ne s'appelle pas pour rien le Département des Sombres Projets !

Which translates more or less like that :

Quote

 

Me : "On their forum, Chaosium seems to think you have plans to translate Mournblade in English, under the name StormBringer.

As I've never heard about this : is it true ?

 

Agent Sylvain : I don't know where they would have gotten that information. I don't think we ever communicated on this subject, and we don't intend on doing it. We do not call ourselves the Departement of Dark Secrets for no reason.

 

After re-reading his answer, I realize that I may have misunderstood him, and the thing they had no intention on doing was communicating, not doing the translation...

Maybe it's a project they have, but thought it was secret.

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3 hours ago, Mugen said:

https://www.casusno.fr/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=34910&start=285

Exact quote :

@Agent Sylvain Sur leur forum, Chaosium a l'air de penser que vous avez des plans pour traduire MournBlade en anglais, sous le nom StormBringer ?

Comme je n'ai rien vu là-dessus : est-ce vrai ?
Je ne sais pas d'où viendrait cette info. Je ne crois pas qu'on ait jamais communiqué quoi que ce soit sur ce sujet, et on ne compte pas le faire. On ne s'appelle pas pour rien le Département des Sombres Projets !

Which translates more or less like that :

After re-reading his answer, I realize that I may have misunderstood him, and the thing they had no intention on doing was communicating, not doing the translation...

Maybe it's a project they have, but thought it was secret.

I would have read it like you did first but I see how both interpretations are possible. It would be interesting to compare with the quote/link @Jason D was referencing above.

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All we know about this at Chaosium is we don't believe the French company has any rights to do anything stormbringer/elric/etc. in English. We have no idea what they would like to do if they had additional rights.

Edited by Rick Meints
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On 2/26/2021 at 10:12 AM, DreadDomain said:

I would have read it like you did first but I see how both interpretations are possible. It would be interesting to compare with the quote/link @Jason D was referencing above.

My awareness of it came from a few posts on the Stormbringer/Elric RPGs Facebook group, where someone (whether an overenthusiastic fan or developer with Titam... it is hard to know) claimed that it was in the works.

Given the situation, that may have been speculative, premature, or magical thinking. 

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