Large Manor, Small Estate

[Atgxtg]

19 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Fair enough!

That touches upon something that is probably worth bringing up. Typically people in these times then to think of themselves as coming from a given area/region rather than from a country. Hence a lot of medieval warfare is between counts and barons, with people more loyal to their local leader rather than his superior or the king. The Romans were something on an exception, mostly because Augustus went out of his way to try and unify support behind the Emperor (himself) rather than to wealthy senators/generals, and that effort ultimately failed after Aurelius' passing.  

So pretty much every knight and soldier is loyal to the one who provides for them, and it why people stay loyal to their local liege when he goes to war with his social superior.

[Percarde]

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

That touches upon something that is probably worth bringing up. Typically people in these times then to think of themselves as coming from a given area/region rather than from a country. Hence a lot of medieval warfare is between counts and barons, with people more loyal to their local leader rather than his superior or the king. The Romans were something on an exception, mostly because Augustus went out of his way to try and unify support behind the Emperor (himself) rather than to wealthy senators/generals, and that effort ultimately failed after Aurelius' passing.  

So pretty much every knight and soldier is loyal to the one who provides for them, and it why people stay loyal to their local liege when he goes to war with his social superior.

With thanks to Gaius Marius and Sulla, in my opinion.  Supposedly one of the reasons Marius was unpopular with the Optimates.

[Cornelius]

On 4/15/2020 at 7:40 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yes they should. If Loyalty started at values similar to skills, but didn't go up (since they aren't skills) then I think it would make a huge difference tot he players. Leaving the manor defended by two guys who are devoted to you (Loyalty 14-15 ish) seem much more reassuring that leaving in in the hands of a half dozen guys who aren't all that loyal to you (Loyalty 10).

I think I'll revise green troop to skill 7, and give troops a loyalty score equal to thier primary weapon skill. So the better veteran troops will be more loyal, which would make sense.

Why would a more veteran troops be more loyal? I would say that it more depends on the pay and the treatment of the lord. Also if they were hired before would be a factor I think. If they were hired before and were treated well their loyalty would probably be better.Also the length of time they are hired. If you hired them when they were fresh troops and are now your veterans they may be more loyal, but if they are treated badly and paid worse I would not bet on their loyalty.

 

[fulk]

I think the default assumption is that you are paying them adequately and that we're talking about the base loyalty value here.  Assuming the adequate treatment, longer-serving troops would likely have higher loyalty because they have more personal relationships and such in the household and mesnie.  Obviously there would be modifications to the base loyalty. New, green troops brought into the castle just before the Saxons show up might be grateful.  Abused and underpaid troops might be less loyal.  

Also in the present context (and in previous publications like Nobles Book), loyalty ~ morale.  So one would expect veteran troops to have higher morale. They are more experienced, more confident and less likely to break.  Weapon skill seems like a good gauge, especially since most knights start with Main Weapon 15 and Loyalty (lord) 15.

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, Cornelius said:

Why would a more veteran troops be more loyal?

Because they are getting more from their lord and have more of a stake is his well being. In order for those guys to become veteran troops means that sombody had to support them long enough for them to become sufficiently experienced and equipment to count as veterans. Historically that meant that veterans were solider who supported one liege for a long time. 

Even when a veteran is a "new hire" they tend to be the soldiers of allies, or former allies who have died, and thus are grateful to find a place with a new lord and a chance to prove themselves. Think of it like being a household knight. The soldier's livelihood is tied to the liege lord.

4 hours ago, Cornelius said:

I would say that it more depends on the pay and the treatment of the lord. Also if they were hired before would be a factor I think.

Exactly. But that really is what veteran troops are. It's not like they can change employers every couple of years. Mercenaries bands, on the other hand, would be different, and I recall some text somewhere that linked their loyalty to their pay. 

4 hours ago, Cornelius said:

If they were hired before and were treated well their loyalty would probably be better.Also the length of time they are hired. If you hired them when they were fresh troops and are now your veterans they may be more loyal, but if they are treated badly and paid worse I would not bet on their loyalty.

Yes, but the thing is troops aren't hired and fired like contract workers -other than mercs.

A veteran soldier is someone that was taken on by a lord, went on campaign with them, and survived long enough to become a veteran. So he would have served under this lord for years, and benefited from doing so.