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Illumination


allenowen

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Depending on who you ask:

  • A form of mystical enlightenment allowing the illuminate to transcend simple dualisms.
  • An insidious form of acceptance of Chaos.
  • A cheat skill allowing a character to avoid persecution by spirits of reprisal.
  • A mental affliction spread by Riddlers and their nonsensical koans.

 

See RQ2 Cults of Terror for RuneQuest game mechanics.

Edited by Joerg
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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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The description in HeroQuest Glorantha is pretty much valid for RuneQuest as well, including most of the rules implications. Everything Joerg says applies.

There is a description from the Lunar POW in the Glorantha Sourcebook, pgs 149-150. In the modern era, it is mostly known as a core part of the Lunar Philosophy that the Lunars revived from a Chaos friendly Empire from a thousand years ago, widely practiced by the Lunar elite. But only a few people understand that the draconic consciousness of the Empire of the Wyrms Friends, much more associated with dragons than Chaos, is more or less the same thing - and Argrath appears to be enthusiastically reviving that. 

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The description in HeroQuest Glorantha is pretty much valid for RuneQuest as well, including most of the rules implications. Everything Joerg says applies. I RQG think rules will be in the Gods book, and will be pretty unsurprising if you have read both Cults of Terror and HQG. 

There is a description from the Lunar PoV in the Glorantha Sourcebook, pgs 149-150. In the modern era, it is mostly known as a core part of the Lunar Philosophy that the Lunars revived from a Chaos friendly Empire from a thousand years ago, widely practiced by the Lunar elite. But only a few people understand that the draconic consciousness of the Empire of the Wyrms Friends, much more associated with dragons than Chaos, is more or less the same thing - and Argrath appears to be enthusiastically reviving that. 

Edited by davecake
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For RQ, do you think Draconic Illumination should use different rules than Rashoranic Illumination? That is, are they significantly different things, or merely two paths to the same outcome? To me, Draconic Illumination seems more "serious" and "deep" than the quick hack that is Rashoranic Illumination (I strongly doubt Draconic illuminates go around breaking cult rules willy-nilly).

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16 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

For RQ, do you think Draconic Illumination should use different rules than Rashoranic Illumination? That is, are they significantly different things, or merely two paths to the same outcome? To me, Draconic Illumination seems more "serious" and "deep" than the quick hack that is Rashoranic Illumination (I strongly doubt Draconic illuminates go around breaking cult rules willy-nilly).

I'll think it'll use the same rules.  We've already had an example of draconic illuimnation back in the Puzzle Canal in Big Rubble and its effects.were treated as a Nysaloran Riddle.  In other words, one mystical events confers a +1% chance of Illumination. 

HeroQuest: Glorantha portrays illumination (both Nysaloran and Draconic) as acquisition of the Infinity Rune which implies two paths to the same outcome.

As forDraconic illuimnation being more serious and Nysaloran Illumination being a hack, it's not shown by the Dragonewts being capable of caprice and fickleness.  That Nysaloran Illumination has a problem with Illuminates breaking bad suggests a flaw in the method but it is a stretch to infer from that that the philosophy is fundamentally shallow.

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we have some information with smoking ruin supplement :

Quote

Illumination is a mystical state of consciousness first brought to mortals by Nysalor, a Chaos God. Until someone achieves Illumination, the skill does nothing but express the yearly chance they have of becoming Illuminated. Once a that person has achieved Illumination, the skill can be used for various Illumination powers.

 

Quote

Zindaulo may use his Illumination skill to overcome his own Runes and Passions and can ignore all cult restrictions. He can also sense Illumination in others

What I don't know is :

is it binary ? once you succeed for the first time illumination, you are illuminated and you have some automatic powers

or is it a "true" skill ? you can sense Illumination in others like people can scan/find/hear something by succedding a roll

How do you learn powers ? (in RP and in rules : same process than a shaman ? than a sorcerer ?)

What is the list of powers ? (is this list closed or you can obtain some exotic power, same way than god gift/geas)

Edited by French Desperate WindChild
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17 minutes ago, metcalph said:

As forDraconic illuimnation being more serious and Nysaloran Illumination being a hack, it's not shown by the Dragonewts being capable of caprice and fickleness. 

Do you think this is actual caprice and fickleness, instead of this just how humans interpret principled adherence to a system of thought they don't understand? I'm not sure either way. 

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16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

is it binary ? once you succeed for the first time illumination, you are illuminated and you have some automatic powers

 

Dorastor: Land of Doom p115 talks about powers being ranked from the most common to the least and that most illuiminares have powers 1-5 (leaving out the ability to illuminate others).  It also says that the reliability of the powers (always on, functions onl;y at certain occasions or on a successful illumination skill roll) should be worked out with the GM.,

16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

or is it a "true" skill ? you can sense Illumination in others like people can scan/find/hear something by succedding a roll

It depends on the school IMO

16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

How do you learn powers ? (in RP and in rules : same process than a shaman ? than a sorcerer ?)

Personally I think you have the insight and work on it from there (with and without a teacher).  ZInduallo might use meditation to so that he can ignore the effects of Spirit Magic on his free INT.

 

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6 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Do you think this is actual caprice and fickleness, instead of this just how humans interpret principled adherence to a system of thought they don't understand? I'm not sure either way. 

Then why can't you make a similar argument for Nysalorans?  They are not hacks breaking the rules for their own benefit, they are pursuing a deep and serious mystical path the likes of which the unilluimnated can never understand.

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3 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Then why can't you make a similar argument for Nysalorans?  They are not hacks breaking the rules for their own benefit, they are pursuing a deep and serious mystical path the likes of which the unilluimnated can never understand.

I think it's a bit more of a stretch because they (supposedly) don't have an utterly inhuman psychology.

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2 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think it's a bit more of a stretch because they (supposedly) don't have an utterly inhuman psychology.

What difference does that make?  If they are behaving fickle and capriciously it is because they are fickle and capricious creatures taking advantage of stupid humans who persist in interpreting their actions as devotion to some ineffableness.  Apply that logic to a duck and you'll see how silly it is.

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2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

For RQ, do you think Draconic Illumination should use different rules than Rashoranic Illumination? That is, are they significantly different things, or merely two paths to the same outcome?

I agree with what Peter has said. The same rules, but not every Illuminate leans the same powers, or learns them as reliably. I think it would be valuable to distinguish different schools of Illumination in terms of what powers they teach, and how reliably they can learn to invoke those powers, but with the caveat that individuals differ, and can learn. Also, I don't that is a binary - there are multiple schools of Illumination within  Peloria, acknowledged as different paths to the same destination, and the same was true of the draconic paths within the EWF. Plus many teach other skills (particularly, many teach meditation but some also teach magic they think the Illuminate might value). Only the Nysalor Riddle tradition I think is (more or less) unique to Nysaloran Illumination.

Some might teach limited versions of some abilities - for example, one potential power is the ability to use opposed runes simultaneously. I don't think many Illuminates can reconcile all opposing Power runes. But the Seven Mothers cult has the Life and Death runes - reconciling those two is common. But maybe the Lunar religion has trouble reconciling Stasis and Movement - she is always turning, never still - or Harmony and Disorder - their religion has little to do with Disorder. 

Draconic Illumination is probably less concerned with avoiding spirits of retribution, with concealing Chaos, etc, but more concerned with mastering passions, with reconciling the opposites within oneself. But that doesn't mean that all abilities are not available potentially. 

And in particular, teaching Illumination is rare. Many Illumination paths have no direct way of teaching! Or have only indirect and clumsy ones. Nysaloran Illumination is, I think, really unique in its magical teaching methods. Even other Lunar paths aren't the same - the Lunar Sevening rites use more drastic methods, such as madness invoking magics. Draconic methods, at least in the early days of the EWF, used to resort to surgical methods as part of their process! There are probably some paths that do not know how to teach Illumination other than by dangerous heroquests to the Green Age or similar. Ultimately, mystic knowledge like Illumination can only be experienced. 

So - make each individual path to Illumination and beyond different, not just between the two but at a much more individual level. Don't use different rules, but different subsets of what is possible within the powers available. Don't make it a rigid taxonomy of paths, just some loose collections of what groups know, or what groups can teach which may not be the same. Make each journey individual. Try to make it meaningful for your game, to the extent you are happy with it. 

 

 

Edited by davecake
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2 hours ago, metcalph said:

That Nysaloran Illumination has a problem with Illuminates breaking bad suggests a flaw in the method but it is a stretch to infer from that that the philosophy is fundamentally shallow.

Absolutely. 

And worth remembering that the EWF form of draconic Illumination was ultimately found deeply flawed too. Also, that the Arkati form is a variant of the Nysaloran, despite their opposition. As information about Illumination is notoriously subjective and hard to convey, some schools might be poor at passing on particular elements of correct practice, but that does not mean that correct practice is impossible, or that it is not profoundly meaningful and deep. 

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20 hours ago, allenowen said:

I've seen this mentioned here and on Facebook. What is it?

It's a form of mystical awakening and philosophy. In the current edition of Runequest there are only passing mentions of it. Rather than go back on old publications, here's a small portion of what's coming up in the forthcoming cults book:

Firstly

Quote

In this consciousness-awakening, the individual breaks the mold of fear and mortality within which he has been confined, and gains special insight, into the relation of Chaos and the world. This insight completely alters the individual’s perceptions and powers thereafter.

The philosophy of Illumination is one espoused by various Gloranthan cults, schools, and individuals. Although commonly associated with a divine being or beings variously identified as Nysalor, Gbaji, Rashorana, or Arkat, Illumination is not strictly speaking a cult. It has no priests, Rune Lords, or shamans. There are no worship ceremonies and no magics available for believers. Neither Illuminates nor scholars agree on the basic tenets of its philosophy, nor do they agree on the practice and special gifts sometimes attributed to the philosophy’s followers.

Illuminates gain certain powers as a result of their enlightenment. The exact nature of these powers appears to vary from Illuminate to Illuminate, and may depend on factors such as the nature of the teachings learned (which vary from sect to sect), the number of teachings learned, and the how receptive the Illuminate was to the teachings. An adventurer who struggles against or otherwise denies his or her Illuminated state may manifest less reliable powers, or may deny or fail to recognize the powers he has.

but

Quote

The writers despair of capturing the flavor of a revolutionary mystical philosophy in any game mechanics. Most Gloranthans dogmatically believe that Chaos equals evil. To propose otherwise would be analogous to suggesting that rape and murder are perfectly acceptable. Thus, becoming Illuminated in Glorantha is shocking and madness-inducing. Once you are Illuminated, there is no way to turn back. Mass murderers, mad prophets, hysterics, atavists, catatonics, and all sorts of raving loonies are common products of the profound dislocation that results from Illumination.

Finally

Quote

Illumination is less significant as a mechanical set of rules and far more important as a source of roleplaying opportunities—especially when it comes to heroquesting. An Illuminate can willingly take choices that his cult might reject, but that the Illuminate believes would be in the best interest of his community (or himself). This is a key step towards getting players away from the mentality of rote repetition of myths and towards the creation of new myths out of the old.

I hope this helps.

 

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2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

What I don't know is :

is it binary ? once you succeed for the first time illumination, you are illuminated and you have some automatic powers

Yes, once you succeed you are Illuminated permanently. But you may have no powers (though almost everyone gains some secret knowledge). 

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

or is it a "true" skill ? you can sense Illumination in others like people can scan/find/hear something by succedding a roll

Sometimes. That is a common mechanism - that you have an Illumination skill that can be slowly increase. But sometimes it is automatic. You can decide for your game (or have different people/paths use different mechanisms). Personally, I like to have a mix of some powers that are reliable, some that must be slowly learned. 

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

How do you learn powers ? (in RP and in rules : same process than a shaman ? than a sorcerer ?)

Yes, but the mechanisms vary. No, usually not like a shaman or a sorcerer, but it's not impossible. There are huge amounts of literature about how to gain mystic insight, mostly from cultures in which mystic spiritual wisdom is valued. Some of worlds great literature is about that. Of course, some of that is pop culture cheezy too - and it's a game, you can go that route too if you want. But it shouldn't be formulaic. 

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

What is the list of powers ? (is this list closed or you can obtain some exotic power, same way than god gift/geas)

There is a list, but it is not clear if it is the definitive list. 

The list from HeroQuest

  1. Secret Knowledge. The knowledge that Chaos is not always evil or inimical. 
  2. Ability to Sense Illumination in Others. 
  3. Immunity to Attempts by Others to Determine Whether the
    Illuminate is Chaotic.
  4. The Ability to Ignore Cult Restrictions. Includes joining hostile cults, breaking geases, etc. 

  5. Immunity to Divine Retribution. Includes spirits of retribution. 

  6. Ability to Illuminate Others.
  7. Ability to Combine Incompatible Runes.

    With 1-5 as common. There are variations and other things noted within all of these. For example, the Secret Knowledge also helps with fear or hatred of True Dragons. Illuminates Cult restrictions may help with 'identity challenges' within heroquests. 

    Another thing to note - it is very likely the Illuminate will sometimes not know if they have a particular power, or how reliably, until they test it! You may never know if you are immune to attempts to detect you as Chaotic if you never gain a Chaos taint. They may not know how reliably they can avoid Spirits of Retribution until they have broken a cult rule. etc. 

    The Gods book may add the ability to overcome your own Runes and Passions as they control your behaviour. 

    And it is absolutely possible that there are others on this list. There may be others associated with Eastern mysticism, or Kralorelan Darudism, that are not commonly known. There may be powers developed by sorcerous mystics like the God Learner Malkioneranists, for example. These powers may be gainable by others, but for example powers to do with sorcery might not even be suspected by non-sorcerers. Or some may just be very obscure. I personally suspect that becoming part of a 'gestalt' being like the Red Emperor or the God-King of the Holy Country without going obviously mad requires Illumination, but it doesn't exactly come up often. There may be abilities that only matter to unusual people or unusual circumstance. Maybe Illumination can help a nymph leave their home, or a dwarf construct become real?

    It is also possible that there are forms of magic that are not at all part of Illumination, but greatly benefit from Illumination, such that they are sometimes practiced together (the practice of 'Austerities', probably including Gifts and Geases, might be an example). And some forms of magic that, while they are an entirely separate form of magical study, can only only be practiced by the Illuminated - the Red Moon Lunar magic from RQ3 was an example.

    And there are almost certainly deeper implications of Illumination that are apparent only to Illuminated heroquesters - the study of the deep myths of the Red Goddess hints at some of them. Surely the magical landscape of the surface of the Red Moon is very different to Illuminates, but how? Exploring the landscape of dreams the same maybe? But this is stuff that goes beyond the rules we currently have, and probably requires a lot of thoughtful study and thought to make it seem right to you. 

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The nuance we should add to "Once you succeed, you are illuminated permanently" is, of course, what the Lunars call occlusion.

Sometimes, illuminates fall to the Dark Side. Everybody admits this. It's inherent in the story of Arkat, Nysalor and Gbaji, whichever part of that three-edged sword you grasp. There's a misc. note about this at the end of the old Nysalor cult writeup (RuneQuest Classic edition of Cults of Terror, p.87: The Dark Side), and a thoughtful account in the description of Lunar illumination for HeroQuest (Under the Red Moon p.34-5: Illumination and Occlusion).

Occlusion usually results in stark, raving insanity, but sometimes the effects are more subtle forms of sociopathy, megalomania, solipsism and the like. (For my money, the best example of a high-functioning occluded illuminate in recent Gloranthan history was Tatius the Bright; YGWV)

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1 minute ago, Nick Brooke said:

The nuance we should add to "Once you succeed, you are illuminated permanently" is, of course, what the Lunars call occlusion.

Yes. Illumination always changes you. But not always for the better, and not always consistently. 

There are Illuminants who it barely seems to change ('before enlightenment, chop wood carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood carry water'), and there are those it deranges and confuses. And there are those who get that moment of oneness with the universe, but are unwilling to give up their ego and self - and so end up, more or less, treating themself as the centre of the universe. 

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5 hours ago, David Scott said:

It's a form of mystical awakening and philosophy. In the current edition of Runequest there are only passing mentions of it. Rather than go back on old publications, here's a small portion of what's coming up in the forthcoming cults book:

I'd agree about references to old publications (though the PDF is available for Cults of Terror from www.chaosium.com, https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-classic/

Never-the-less, I think it's beneficial to understand the history of the Arkat Nysalor struggle, and the excellent cult of terror history is available online, on the excellent Well of Daliath:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/cot-history/

And if that sort of thing floats your boat, starting with the cosmology makes sense:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/cot-history/cot-cosmology/

(and thanks jajagappa for the link tutorial for idiots)!

Edited by Stephen L
Correct links
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On 4/24/2020 at 6:36 PM, metcalph said:

As forDraconic illuimnation being more serious and Nysaloran Illumination being a hack, it's not shown by the Dragonewts being capable of caprice and fickleness. 

That perspective is entirely due to humans who have not the slightest understanding of what draconic consciousness and culture is like.  In the past, westerners IRL have said similar things about the cultures they encountered, such as the Chinese and various African tribes for example, and it was based on pure ignorance.  The fact is, the draconic mindset is enough like a human that a human can potentially understand it, but not so similar that such an understanding is easily gleaned.

The real problem here is that Mysticism is the least touched upon of the magic systems in Glorantha, rules-wise, and because the only mystical tradition with a write-up was Nysalor, it has become a lazy default.  I don't think Draconic mysticism has much in common with Nysalor illumination.  I would agree that Draconic mysticism did contribute to the First Council and to Nysalor's birth, but Nysalor is a chaos deity, and his illumination is a tainted thing.

I mean, seriously, back in the Green Age, the Primal Plasma was a clean source of life, but it was defiled by the Unholy Trio, and now warps and perverts everything it touches, yet the Nysalori would have you believe that Chaos is not inimical to life.  Funny that chaos features get lethal if you have too many.  Funny also that chaos creatures are utterly devoted to destroying the world.  The notion that you can see things from Chaos' perspective, due to being illuminated is a false revelation, and a pure chaotic subversion.  Nysalor is also a bit of a shabby parody of Zen Buddhism, and is a bit unintentionally racist for that reason.

For all these reasons, I suggest that if you meet Nysalor on the road to illumination, kill him.

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3 hours ago, Darius West said:

 

For all these reasons, I suggest that if you meet Nysalor on the road to illumination, kill him.

There have to be three of you to do so. Father, mother and midwife...

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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I'm confused about something with Illumination... (And not just how you know there's a capital 'i' in front of two lower-case 'l's there...)

 

If a Rune Priest or Lord becomes illuminated and has an allied spirit, what's to stop the spirit from informing on rules (especially Geas) breakages to the god, and thus the RP/RL losing access to their RPs?

Similarly, I don't get why illuminated can't be attacked by Spirits of Reprisal. This "immune to" seems very hand-wavium, rather than actually mechanically thought through.

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44 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Similarly, I don't get why illuminated can't be attacked by Spirits of Reprisal. This "immune to" seems very hand-wavium, rather than actually mechanically thought through.

In the past, I've understood this as less "immune to" and more "doesn't trigger them to attack." So if a Humakti with "Don't eat meat" eats meat, normally Humakt would know and send the spirit of reprisal. Now Humakt doesn't know, and that's what "immune" here means. If that Humakti would get into spirit combat with the sword-breaking spirit, they could still be beaten—they aren't immune to taking spirit combat damage, and being inflicted with the curse.

I see nothing stopping an allied spirit from tattling to the god. I don't know exactly the different linkages required for losing RP, but it could be something like the god can't identify the Illuminate anymore, maybe? ... Which could just lead to a large-scale withdrawal or smiting instead.

In general, I see it as when a worshiper uses Divination to ask if the Illuminate broke the cult rules, the god's like "nope, they're cool." Maybe the Ban spell doesn't even stick? Or the Illuminate, when viewed with Soul Sight, still always appears as "in good standing."

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