Muskox People Dev Thread

[Sir_Godspeed]

On 7/4/2020 at 3:33 AM, jajagappa said:

Yes, I'm sure some of those remain.  The icy, or perhaps solidified, gorp would be interesting.  Just looks like a large ice crystal - but if you touch it, you stick to it (like your skin sticking to frozen metal) and you have to rip your flesh to get away before it "flows" into your ever-colder body.

Some useful things to consider in mapping this area are the Trollpak maps.  First, there's the Storm Age migrations of the trolls.  The Black Sea Monster that ate many trolls, luring them all in, should be in this part of the White Sea (or its spawn).

And then one interpretation of the Chaos invasions where:

1) Stormfall - The Devil and his minions fell upon the Castle of the North Wind and destroyed all who opposed them. Trolls there fled after their windy leaders were killed.

2) Boztakang’s Victory – The Devil Wakboth and his slimy army moved in a wide arc and tried to surround the craters and peaks of the Blue Moon Ruins. The trolls’ magic and courage fought them off. [I'd probably place the Chaos army all around the Blue Moon Plateau and moving in from multiple directions.

10) Winter Win – A major chaos army moved northward from Peloria and onto the ice. Himile-worshiping ice trolls, Boztakang’s Blue Moon Army, and followers of the Black Sun converged and destroyed the enemy. [Clearly there is some gathering atop the ice that for a time was over this region.  Likely the battle marked the retreat of the ice as well. ]

The Winter Win might tie into the Sekever Conquest noted in the Guide p.691+: Sekever - This evil false emperor is the ruler of Dozaki and conquers Kerandaruth with an army of demons and corpses. He was accompanied by the Black Sun, which sent rains of blood against the world.

This is totally new to me. Very interesting!

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This is totally new to me. Very interesting!

The old Trollpak (which is available as part of the RQ Classics line) is very useful for events more at the periphery of the world.

The encounter with the Black Sea Monster for instance:  "When they smelled water the trolls turned westward and came to the shores of the White Sea.... The northern portion were met after a while by a sea creature. It was huge, with glowing eyes and bass voice, and it offered to carry everyone to safety. The trolls, glad to find a friend, agreed to take the aid. The creature told everyone to line up, close their senses, and march forward towards the funny noise ahead of him. He warned them to never dare open their eyes nor to slow their pace or the magic would not work. Everyone followed the instructions except Eristi the Doubter who was last in line. To him it sounded like the noise of eating and he opened his sonar. He saw the creature chomp the troll in front of him before he turned and fled."

 

[g33k]

An idea I just had...

You've got a lot of tropes in the keeping of your Striding Goddess.  Some are core issues of survival. -- food issues, skiing /getting-around, etc.  There seems to be courtship and/or Young Love.

Also Trickster.

I suspect this culture's Trickster is much "nicer" than Eurmal -- gentler, more often funny, etc...  Teaching a lesson the victim survives, instead of serving as a bad example...

How about this, then:  the Muskoxi tradition of courtship includes pranking... Ideally, the kind that uncovers a problem and/or provides a solution to a known issue.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

I suspect this culture's Trickster is much "nicer" than Eurmal -- gentler, more often funny, etc...  Teaching a lesson the victim survives

Raven is a very common trickster in real-world northern cultures.  I'm not sure if "gentler" would be the word.  Willing to guide you, if he gets food.  Willing to guide others to you, if he gets food.  

Alternately, the Trickster could be more of a "possessing" spirit, something that likes to insinuate itself into someone and play pranks.

[Sir_Godspeed]

On 7/5/2020 at 7:05 PM, g33k said:

An idea I just had...

You've got a lot of tropes in the keeping of your Striding Goddess.  Some are core issues of survival. -- food issues, skiing /getting-around, etc.  There seems to be courtship and/or Young Love.

Also Trickster.

I suspect this culture's Trickster is much "nicer" than Eurmal -- gentler, more often funny, etc...  Teaching a lesson the victim survives, instead of serving as a bad example...

Yeah, she's got a lot of hats, so to speak. I didn't initially mean for it, but then different tasks logically fell together and after a while I came to like her a lot as she is. 

The trickster aspect is externalized to the arctic fox, though it is "bound" in a somewhat similar fashion as Eurmal is to Orlanth, however as you mention, the relationship is less fraught with tension, and considering the importance the Muskoxi place on their arctic fox companions for trapping and hunting, I think you assesment of a less malicious trickery is probably right. 

That being said, it's also possible that the fox is a less purely-Disorder being, since I'm toying with the idea that the Arctic Fox sort of covers the same tropes as Eurmal, Yinkin and even Orlanth to some extent. So, a somewhat unreliable, moody, prank-y, and seductive being. Unlikely to murder anyone, but shapeshift into your spouse to make you commit adultery? Hide in the snow and steal your hunting catch? Drink all the milk of the Musk-cows? Rub its rear along the skis to make them stink to high heavens? Quite possibly. (Just brainstorming here). 

On 7/5/2020 at 7:05 PM, g33k said:

How about this, then:  the Muskoxi tradition of courtship includes pranking... Ideally, the kind that uncovers a problem and/or provides a solution to a known issue.

Love it! Maybe Muskoxi men, in particular, have a soft spot for a woman who can outsmart them in some way. She's a keeper, you see. 
(Now my brain has started spitballing joking relationships, for example between in-laws or something.) 

On 7/5/2020 at 9:20 PM, jajagappa said:

Raven is a very common trickster in real-world northern cultures.  I'm not sure if "gentler" would be the word.  Willing to guide you, if he gets food.  Willing to guide others to you, if he gets food.  

Alternately, the Trickster could be more of a "possessing" spirit, something that likes to insinuate itself into someone and play pranks.

Very good too. As you said, the loyalty is not unconditional. (But reliable enough to be largely worth it.) 

I like the idea of normally stolid, stoic Muskoxi men suddenly getting a raptus of cheekiness or mild malevolence and blaming it on the Arctic Fox spirit/Western Wind possessing them. Perhaps the joking relationships are a ritualized way to prevent this from happening? Remember to verbally spar with your mother/father-in-law, lest the Trickster make you do something untoward, like putting poop in someone's shoes, or something *really* bad, like throwing out meat to lure polar/grizzly bears close to the herd.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Some ideas stewing inside: 

Troll Marshes:
- Not a true Queendom, but the closest thing to an organized troll polity (a loose gang-confederation) between the Blue Moon Plateau and Dozakiland/Newhome.

- The different gangs are of varying attitudes to the humans around them, though raids and counter raids are fairly common on a seasonal basis. The trolls range out during winter when the marsh freezes, trying to escape from their raiding victims with livestock, food or trinkets, and occasionally slaves or victims for eating or sacrificing if the local trollkin have died and/or been eaten. Trolls also raid each other, but this carries more political consequences. 

- Rumor of Mistress Trolls in the marsh? Might just be nonsense. Propaganda, perhaps. 

- The trolls ranging in North Pent outside of the Marsh may travel there for trade, mating, or religious/magical purposes. 

- The marsh trolls are hostile to the Ice Trolls, who've tried to occupy it before. 

- There is some sort of marsh nymph at the heart of the swamp which the trolls placate with living sacrifice (usually animals or trollkin), lest the very ground they tread on swallow them. The trolls and surrounding humans believe this nymph is the queen of the Will-o-wisps, that can guide people to safety or to their doom in the shifting ground and waters of the marsh. 

- Widespread Gorakiki worship, and rearing and export of insect products, which is the main source of wealth for the marshes. Most of the insects die during winter (or are butchered before it), but the eggs survive. Some can hibernate in a frozen state until spring, unless the hungry trolls hack the ice apart and eat them (a desperate move). 

 

Reindeer Woods:

- Populated by reindeer hunters and herders (not sure if both or just one of them). 

- In Muskox People culture, the reindeer folk are intrinsically associated with shamanism, and are seen as and stereotyped as powerful "sorcerers". 

- They are not seen as great warriors, as they prefer evasion and flight to outright armed confrontation, a cultural clash of ideal between the groups. The Muskoxi may raid them if given the chance, or trade with them if beneficial, or otherwise join with them against trolls or Pentans, and so forth. 

- The reindeer folk have a terrible secret about Chaos they won't speak of. 

- The reindeer folk may be related to a nearby fishing and whaling people, but such cultural complexities are beyond the Muskoxi's horizon.

 

West King Wind: 

- He is the most cunning of the Wind Kings, to the point of being untrustworthy at times. 

- He sometimes puts on a fox hide to make mischief (may be a cult secret with the Arctic Fox or Skiing Goddess cults)

- (speculative ideas:) He tricked, seduced and dishonored the Sun's Son as revenge for prior transgressions of the Sun. [Part of a larger mythic cycle about the Sun dying, but the whole cycle is not purely about the West Wind. Possibly replace seducing of his son with something about cuckoldry, ie. seducing the Sun's wife, the Earth.] 

- For this and other aspects, the Muskox People keep him at an arm's length, as he is mercurial. 

- The distinction between West King Wind and Arctic Fox is (perhaps?) complicated, nuanced, self-contradicting and not something the Muskox people think too much about. It is what it is. 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Sir_Godspeed

[Akhôrahil]

On 7/13/2020 at 5:45 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

Widespread Gorakiki worship, and rearing and export of insect products, which is the main source of wealth for the marshes. Most of the insects die during winter (or are butchered before it), but the eggs survive. Some can hibernate in a frozen state until spring, unless the hungry trolls hack the ice apart and eat them (a desperate move).

Both Gorakiki Mosquito and Gorakiki Dragonfly scare me.

On 7/13/2020 at 5:45 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

- He sometimes puts on a fox hide to make mischief (may be a cult secret with the Arctic Fox or Skiing Goddess cults)

This is great! Synthesize that into Orlanth, God-learners!

On 7/13/2020 at 5:45 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

- (speculative ideas:) He tricked, seduced and dishonored the Sun's Son as revenge for prior transgressions of the Sun.

Oh man, that won't go over well with any visiting Yelmalians. 🙂

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[M Helsdon]

One thing to bear in mind that there is probably a large troll realm out on the ice, of which the Blue Moon plateau is a mere outlier. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

8 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

One thing to bear in mind that there is probably a large troll realm out on the ice, of which the Blue Moon plateau is a mere outlier. 

My impression was that the Ice Trolls were a separate "civilization"/troll culture, and that they were more aligned with the Valind-Himile complex than with Dark Trolls. I'll admit I have very little to base this on other than just general descriptions of what they're up to. I was planning to make Ice Trolls a general foe, whose pro-Glacier efforts (supposing such a thing is possible through alliance with the Hollri, etc.) were generally opposed by (almost) everyone in North Pent, but maybe also involving some tribute payment, etc. 

I'm very willing to hear more input on this. Complicating the cleavage lines is always good. The more I can mix potential hostility and potential friendliness the better.

[Nevermet]

I'm loving this.  It really feels like a setting that could work either as a place that characters from a more established campaign area, or as a campaign region in its own right.

 

I look forward to hearing about how the Hero Wars come to the Muskox People.

[sufiazafran]

Hello, very interesting thread. I just have one question:

Isn't there already a muskox people in Fronela? GtG vol. 1 mentions Agnost and Hingol as musk ox people settlements called the noyaling (GtG, vol. 1; pag. 218, 220).

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by sufiazafran

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, sufiazafran said:

Hello, very interesting thread. I just have one question:

Isn't there already a muskox people in Fronela? GtG vol. 1 mentions Agnost and Hingol as musk ox people settlements called the noyaling (GtG, vol. 1; pag. 218, 220).

 

There are! But when I started this project, I was mostly looking to develop a less detailed area. And honestly muskoxen lent themselves very well to the region of Far Northern Pent. The alternative could be reindeer, which of course is also present elsewhere (in Fronela and Peloria) or just making them hunter-gatherers. 

 

 

On another note, jeeez, it's been a year. I should put up some of the stuff I wrote before the second (and more demoralizing) lockdown occured.

[Akhôrahil]

I’m putting muskox populations - but not muskox people - up in the Rockwoods areas of Skanthiland and Aggar.

I think it’s the right call of you to have muskox people - Glorantha already has its big tribe of Reindeer Hsunchen, and muskox (muskoxen?) are cool.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[EricW]

On 7/6/2020 at 3:05 AM, g33k said:

An idea I just had...

You've got a lot of tropes in the keeping of your Striding Goddess.  Some are core issues of survival. -- food issues, skiing /getting-around, etc.  There seems to be courtship and/or Young Love.

Also Trickster.

I suspect this culture's Trickster is much "nicer" than Eurmal -- gentler, more often funny, etc...  Teaching a lesson the victim survives, instead of serving as a bad example...

How about this, then:  the Muskoxi tradition of courtship includes pranking... Ideally, the kind that uncovers a problem and/or provides a solution to a known issue.

You mean like Loki? 😉 

Trickster is a despised outcast, a storyteller, unreliable, blamed for anything which goes wrong, utterly indispensable when only deceit and cunning can save the situation.

Edited September 2, 2021 by EricW

[Baron Wulfraed]

Sounds a bit more like Coyote... with "tricks" often back-firing on him...